I've read with some concern that the level of working hours expected in Australia is higher than that in the UK. This is not what we would expect from a country that places such a premium on leisure. My husband is a senior accountant working in commerce/industry and rarely works weekends or late in the evenings. Can anyone advise whether "american style" hours are commonplace or whether it is easy to find employment that doesn't demand crazy hours and minimal holidays.

Pamzo

I think it is a common misconception in the UK that Australia somehow places a 'premium on leisure'.
Holidays are certainly likely to be fewer/shorter than in UK/Europe.

As to weekly hours, I can't say because I have no knowledge of the accountancy profession here. Exact hours would depend upon the employer but in general I think that employers expect a lot more over here than they do in the UK.

One thing to bear in mind though is that Australian cities are VERY far apart. In a city like Perth (which is about 4000km from any other sizable city!) your husband may have a choice of only a very few employers. If he doesn't like what they have on offer, then you're looking at a 4000km house move.

The UK is small - if you, say, live in Coventry and can't find a suitable job there then you can easily commute to Birmingham, Rugby, Leicester, even Derby or Nottingham. There are a lot more job opportunities without a major move.
Something to think about.

I've heard Sydney and Melbourne may be different?!? Can only speak for Perth (and the profession itself as opposed to commerce and industry) but my wife is also a fairly senior accountant with one of the 'big four' and she certainly works less hours, brings no work home, hardly travels (for work) and gets home far earlier in the evening than she ever did in the UK (Reading). She does, however, get one week less annual leave than in the UK (still gets 4 weeks).

However depending on what you're doing it may be far harder to find suitable work in Perth.

cheers

dpr

Australia is definately not a leisure orientated society the way the UK is. Sport watching perhaps but holidays are not a given like they are in UK although entitlement is generally four weeks. Rollover of annual leave for years at a time is not uncommon and this attitude is supported by companies. Leave also has to be accrued before it can be taken.

It also appears to me that accountants are not as "valued" in oz. Certainly salaries do not appear anywhere near as high, relative to other occupations, than they are in UK ?

I wonder if that is because a lot of kids here do specific degrees at university and those with a financial bent opt for an accounting degree. Accordingly, the supply of raw suitable talent is higher than in UK where kids study a wider range of subjects that sometimes have little relation to final employment.

It also seems that Commercial or General Manager roles are deemed to hold more prestige and attract far higher salaries. Certainly the differential between a manager and an accountant in Oz seems far higher than UK where both are probably more equally valued.

Australia is definately not a leisure orientated society the way the UK is. Sport watching perhaps but holidays are not a given like they are in UK although entitlement is generally four weeks. Rollover of annual leave for years at a time is not uncommon and this attitude is supported by companies. Leave also has to be accrued before it can be taken.

It also appears to me that accountants are not as "valued" in oz. Certainly salaries do not appear anywhere near as high, relative to other occupations, than they are in UK ?

I wonder if that is because a lot of kids here do specific degrees at university and those with a financial bent opt for an accounting degree. Accordingly, the supply of raw suitable talent is higher than in UK where kids study a wider range of subjects that sometimes have little relation to final employment.

It also seems that Commercial or General Manager roles are deemed to hold more prestige and attract far higher salaries. Certainly the differential between a manager and an accountant in Oz seems far higher than UK where both are probably more equally valued.

I cant talk for Perth but in Sydney and Melbourne we accountants are expected to work longer hours than I ever experienced in London, for a lot less reward.

I am in a senior management position in one of the big four in Sydney. Salaries are significantly lower than in the UK. For example, a chartered accountant at a manager grade here earns no more than an unqualified line manager in any organisation such as a bank or insurance company. In the UK a qualified chartered accountant at a manager level expects a significant premium over an unqualified line manager in such organisations, perhaps even up to 50% more salary. A good example is a childhood friend of mine who is an underwriting manager for an insurance company. When I was a manager in my big four firm in the UK I was paid just over double his salary, which given our relative lifetime educational effort and achievements seemed fair enough to me and he never grumbled that it was inequitable. Here in Sydney we would be paid the same wage, which incidentally is insufficient to enable either of us to be able to buy a 3 bedroom house within 45 minutes commute of the CBD. This is coupled with the fact that clients here are extremely demanding and fear of litigation is on a par with the US, which drives the partners to push staff as hard as they can. Overnight working is such a regular feature in my team that I'm surprised we dont have beds in the office. I kid you not.

The reasons for the lower salaries as I see them are that Australia does not recognise accountants as anything special, mainly because a significant proportion of those working in the big four here are not qualified accountants and are actually fairly mediocre achievers. There is not any real distinction in pay between those who have done CA and those who have not within the big four here. In contrast in the UK the big four only take on very strong students, who typically have no choice but to do the UK professional exams (which are harder than the Australian equivalent) and the vast majority of professional staff are high performing, professionally qualified people. There really is a HUGE educational and professional gulf between my colleagues here in Sydney and my colleagues in London.

Well thanks for cheering me up Herman!! I was hoping for more leisure time than here in the UK.


Still it gives a lot of things to think about and check out before we make a definate move. We're hoping to get over to Perth for a holiday soon so I'll do a bit of investigating when we're there.
It sounds as though I'd be better trying the Commercial/general manager route though which I have experience of here in the UK anyway.

Thanks to everyone who replied

I'd hate to lie to you. I was forewarned by my UK boss who spent two years working for my firm here in Sydney, so I was prepared for what I found. I really appreciated his advice as I had no illusions to be shattered. I know a few Brits here who suffered from depression a few months down the track, once they realised that their dreams of endless hours lazing on a sunny beach were complete fantasy.
Good luck with it. I am working with a guy from our Perth office here in Sydney and he tells me he has been shocked by the hours expected of us here. Hope thats some consolation!!

Herman, sounds like they're extracting their pound of flesh and then some from you. If 'they' were still around I'd think you were an 'Android'.

Anyway we've got a mate coming from my wife's Sydney office this weekend so I'll let you know how his experiences in Sydney cf. to Perth and see if they're all singing from the same hymn sheet

Oops too many cliched idioms or whatever - too late!!

DPR

Thanks again Hermin - I agree, no point in having false expectations.


DPR - look forward to an update from you after your friend's visit.

Herman - does the guy from your Perth Office work the same hours in Perth that he does in Sydney ? Not sure if you meant that he was shocked by the hours of work in Sydney, or in Australia in general.