moneypenny20

Nonsense. Just because it has the highest population of all the cities in Aus doesn't mean that 'most' love it and live there. Just means that slightly more people live there than in Melbourne. The vast majority of people live elsewhere. Quite happily for the most part. Yes I can nitpick just like everyone else.

GarryP

Never said all areas, now did I? Kind of the reverse.

Wouldn't really call it gentrification, which implies a positive change. Rather it's a death in those qualities which the city wants to be able to claim through unthinking suffocation. 'Money Rot' maybe?

Not all change is good, and if you are about to kill something of value though stupidity (eg Sydney) then you should definitely think again.

Beoz

Perhaps you need to explain that further? You brought up lock out laws that you read about somewhere, I explained to you that on the ground here its no great shakes, in fact, its been a good thing all round.

Now that your myth you read about in the press somewhere has been put to bed from someone on the ground, is there anything else that's been killed?

From where I sit on the ground here in Sydney, its going from strength to strength, especially since the Liberal government took over. Sadly the city was neglected and choked during the Labor years.

GarryP

See, your problem is that your credibility is shot - most of all on matters of 'cool' and 'culture'. Nobody is going to use Beoz as a cultural barometer. I think I'll continue to take the view of those that do in the cultural scene.

Beoz

That in no way relates to the question I asked or what you quoted.

Does that mean your argument on lock out laws is failing and you want to revert to insults?

astera

Sydney the best place to live in Australia? LOL. How did you come to that conclusion, Sherlock?

I've lived there too, and Cronulla is regarded as one of the nicer areas to be in, but I would never want to live in the Sydney area again now that I've seen a bit more of the country and am not physically tied down to any city in a professional sense.

Sydney and Melbourne is where the jobs are, so people will naturally flock to these places just like they do to Mumbai or Shanghai, but living somewhere just to earn one's daily bread is not the same as living somewhere because it's a great lifestyle destination.

Plus keep in mind that the property market is "the Wall Street of Australia" , and one day there will be a loud pop and a lot of sour faces when the overinflated bubble comes in face-to-face contact with reality.

Beoz

You stayed with relatives in Cronulla. That is a difference to living in Cronulla. Cronulla is OK. The commute sucks though which means that the ability to enjoy the beach before and after work is heavily compromised. You know what they say about Shire people. Once they cross the Captain Cook bridge on a Friday, they never leave til Monday. That's what a horrible commute does to the Hobbits.

And Melbourne is second best. It just is. Melbourne could be number 1 if it had natural beauty. Unfortunately for Melbourne, it really struggles on that front.

But it certainly makes up for it in other areas.

Brisbane on the other hand is the worst. Its easy to work out. Just ask the question "tell me one good thing about Brisbane". A lot of navel gazing goes on then. Nice stadium though.

Back to what Garry said. The ingredients for the best are:

Cool
Culture
Innovation
Vibrant
Entrepreneurial
Non stop
Affluent

and I would add:

Lifestyle
Natural Beauty
Weather
Proximity

Whilst every Australian city is compromised on many of those fronts, if you put scores against every Australian city for each one of those, Sydney comes out on top. Melbourne comes in second and sadly Brisbane last.

Maybe, but they have been saying that for a long time. And for a long time they have always said that its going to take something that prevent people from paying their debt ......... increases in unemployment ......... nothing of the sort on the horizon there. Due a crash though, so is the US stock market. Thems the breaks of investing.

GarryP

It means you claiming it's all OK and Sydney has no issues aren't really worth anything. Not only is your personal credibility shot, but you would know little about culture or 'cool'.

In the main they are not attributes that a city can gain or lose, but rather geographic. So, you might say Auckland is a naturally beautiful city, or has a nice bay - but that's very different from saying it's cool.

And I do think that active governance to control the corrosive influence of finance and maintain the creative, innovative, cool heart of a city would be a sensible model to take up. If you look to ensure that you keep a good 'livability' score, there is no reason you shouldn't keep a good 'cool' rating too.

the troubadour

I agree Sydney was once a fairly decent city. It never compared to London either in scope or status. It never will. Hardly matters as Sydney has its own direction in a very different part of the world.


The words jealousy and resentment are frequent quotes of yours I wonder why? Reverse psychology most likely. It can't be fun having a massive mortgage in what is not a particularly 'special' city at the end of the day, unless have location....even then.....


Sydney is hardly to best place to live in Australia. Just as London, is not in UK. It may be the best that Australia has to offer with regards aspects of working life. By that I mean certain fields of endeavour.


There are many, many places around the globe, also in Australia,far superior to Sydney and as I mentioned its increasingly workaholic nature, as if that is the single most important virtue in life not to mention an over abundance of people with their head up their dernier.

spouse of scouse

What a mob of bitches you blokes are I hope the next thread's not about who has the biggest red button

Beoz

Every city has issues. Which ones worry you?

Ok on the cool and culture factor as I have said before on culture, if you class that as history or music or art galleries, Australia will never compete with Europe. Its a fact, Australia is a young country.

Cool, what's that? Beards and loafers? Do define.

One thing is for sure, as fun as it might be, I am not the one sitting in my Werribee McMansion garage tinkering with tech. Hardly cultured or cool but good fun none the less.

Wellington is nicer and has a way better vibe than Auckland. People are happy when their visual surrounds are pleasant.

I think most cities tend to do that based on the ability to de-construct protected architecture, the places where the art farts and creative's want to live. Sydney no different there.

Former industrial land development is interesting. What to do with that when it gets in the way of expansion?

When you build those high collections in an area that's not surrounded by cool places, they become white elephants. Parramatta has the potential to be a white elephant as its not near cool.

On the flipside there's Green Square. Paddington cool overspill created cool in Surry Hills, Surry Hills cool created overspill in Redfern, Redfern cool is creating overspill into the already constructed Danks St area and Green Sq with its transport links, proximity to city, airport, harbour and coast is ripe for the picking. It just continues to expand.


Even around there now are cool distilleries, restaurants, warehouse conversations all popping up.

Time for you to explore.

GarryP

Don't you know you aren't allowed to use such derogatory terms for gender stereotypes? It's sexual harassment - help, help, I'm being repressed.



It's all about who has the biggest rod, plus tweaking the boar's tail.

Occasionally such to and fro comes out with something interesting though, like the concept of active maintenance of the circumstances for cool. A little research says that that is kind of what Melbourne did a decade or two back, which is why it has the positive CBD vibe now.

Beoz

It has AC/DC lane. Now that's cool. Its a pity AC/DC or what's left of them were born in Glasgow and cut their teeth in Sydney.

The back streets of Melbourne try to be cool, buts its very contrived.

For the main part, outside the CBD lacks cool, which means everyone has to travel to be cool. Cool should on your door step or if that's not possible avoid a Central Business District.

The Southbank reminds me of a smaller version of Darling Harbour. A once done, never again stroll for tourists.

GarryP

Part of the problem is people always concentrate on the laneways as somehow the key bit. But that's the wrong way round - the laneways (let's just call them the alleys they are) were a consequence of people looking to do small and chic in a CBD where the property prices were already silly. And they wanted to do that because of the drive to stop the CBD being dead space filled with bankers during the day and nobody at night had been recognised in policies that tried to encourage cultural uses, etc.

You don't fix the mess of Sydney by tacking on alleys, or trams, or sports stadiums; you fix it by sacking the numbnuts who screwed it up and recognise that a vibrant CBD has a value that's greater than a nimby's moans.

ozzieeagle

I hope someone can help Astera with his out of control chronic plastic addiction. Either that or he's OD'd on Dimethyltryptamine, probably the only stuff that can alter one's reality to that extent.

Get help mate