Maybe you should roll a dice.

It is also a case of where in the country of your choice you want to live. e.g. living in Auckland would be very different to living in Christchurch.

From your original question I would guess that you are quite adventurous, so just go with the flow. (If you are not, well basing your decision of a few subjective posts will be a recipe for tears!)

I didnt say I didnt know who Kenny Everett was, as for Mrs DUP, Ive only one thing to say ... reruns

When I went to N.Z house in 1981 -nobody told me about the Maori problem here. This country will never get off it's knee's all the time it is paying money to Maori for so called "Injustices" in 1840. Go to Aussie. If England tried to get a "Freebie" from Rome(Julius Caesar 56BC) or another payback from France (William the Conqueror 1066)--what do you think the answer would be?

Yes you have it in one --"Foxtrot Oscar"

Hmmm...slight difference being that the new NZ ruling classes/ colonials never actually claimed to have defeated the Maori in battle (nor did so) and therefore to benefit from the 'right through conquest' to do as they pleased. There was a treaty involved and the Maori are just asking for that treaty to be observed.

Thus it comes down to interpretation of what that treaty entailed.

As you say it is down to interpretation. The problem is no one knows what the Mauris thought they were signing up to. Despite some of the whinging about the Mauris you get from segments of NZ society, NZ is admired for what steps to reconciliation that have been taken. It is respect and the commonwealth honouring a treaty that is current and not ancient history.

Howard cannot even say sorry for the injustices (however well meaning) that took place against the current generation of Aborigines.

NZ is admired by whom in particular? Certainly not from inside NZ!Sorry Bondi but only someone living outside these shores would make comments like this. The Maori issue is one pretty much ALL NZers are sick of. Pakeha here are heartily sick of paying tax dollars to local Iwi in compensation for events that occured 150 years ago. The issues are complex and yet straightforward at the same time. When do you stop apologising and move on? Maori enjoy the 'benefits' of a relatively modern society, (consumer goods etc) but contribute little. For whatever reasons.
Maori are offered ten thousand dollars to train as teachers. Pakeha are offered nothing other than mounting debts. Fair? If this happened in the UK towards Bengalis etc can you imagine the row?
Just recently on the front cover of the local press a Maori woman was extolling the virtues of living on the edge of town in a public forest whilst collecting her benefit fortnightly. And what is she planning to do with my taxes? "Get a set of wheels, ay". Any comment from the journalist? No.

I am on about outside perceptions of NZ relative to Oz with regards to treatment of Mauris and Aborigines. The treaty that was signed 150 years ago is still current. I am not saying we have to constantly apologise but Howards refusual for any form of reconciliation IMHO is wrong. It is about official recognition of the injustices and moving on.

Not sure what Bengalis have to do with the argument.

A comparison would be that if the indigenous British received preferential rights/priveleges over migrants there would be outrage. My experience in UK is that you may fair better from the system if you were a migrant (though may suffer some unfortunate prejudice).

All the maoris that I have met are pleasant folk. However with all the benefits that they receive from positive discrimination it is a sad fact that they are more poorer/fatter/unhealthier/singleparented/unemployed/illiterate/criminalised than white NZers. Why is this? Anglo-Saxon work ethic opposed to a laid back Pacific Island attitude??

You do feel that the place would still be like a temperate third world Samoa if the whites hadn't colonised. Then again the Maoris may have massacred each other if we had only given them weapons going by their record.

Roger

Hope this works as its my first attempt on this board.
I came to Aussie in 1973 and have never seen a live snake outside of the zoo.
Found a redback spider in my potting shed once .
Took off my shoe and hit the bugger "They dont like it up'em".
In Victoria Huntsmen spiders are big but quite harmless.
They live on the ceiling in corners.
So stop talking rubbish and come to Victoria.
The only animal that did attack me was a giant rat but that was in London.

Sorry Bondi. You said it was current not ancient history which is VERY debatable. You said some segments of NZ society whinge about it and I am saying that the majority are sick of Maori and their spurious claims over the foreshore, seabed, airwaves ad nauseum. Perceptions of NZ from outside are one thing but the reality is wholly different. As for Bengalis I am simply saying that Maori have had positive discrimination for decades (as I am sure you realised) and it has made precious little difference. Witness the Maori TV debacle. Bottom line is NZers have had enough.

I have no doubt most Kiwis are whinging about it. Reality is Mauris is NZ have a better lot than Aborigines in Australia. Mauris also make up a larger proportion of the NZ population than in Australia and that is why that have a much bigger voice.

I am not getting into the positive discrimination debate (I do not know enough) but land rights are important for any economy. The treaty of Waitangi is current history as there are elements that are still in the court and as pointed out earlier are subject to interpretation. The treaty maybe 150 years but if it proves that the Commonwealth cheated the Mauris out of what should be theirs then NZ has a serious land rights problem.

There maybe Mauris who are trying to unjustly claim prime real estate but until the Treaty of Waitangi is truly reconciled neither side can be comfortable about their land rights.

The every day reality is that Maori enjoy the fruits of a 21st Century lifestyle and are happy to take take take. Usually from the taxpayer. The fact that our forefathers were somewhat liberal with the truth or were naive is neither here nor there. Maori do not want for anything, be it land or opportunity, and still want more given to them. I don't consider this appropriate in the 21st Century. The Waitangi Tribunal is nothing but a gravy train for local Iwi and has been for years. It has nothing to do with justice or rectifying wrongs. This is the current reality. History has moved on. There has been renumeration enough to last a lifetime (or more). Amen.

I sold my house in England in 1981 for 32,000BP--we went back 10 yrs ago--it was for sale! I enquired "How much?" A mere 120,000BP--of course I bashed on the door and demanded that the cheating bastard give me 88,000BP. Tribes in the South Island have had not one or two "Full and Final settlement for the Treaty" but 4 full and final settlement's!! And as far as most of us Pakeha over here are concerned the Treaty is now a Industry--the rules are Maori want Pakeha pay--or as Iwi means -- I Want It

You sold your house and agreed to sell it. What was agreed between the commonwealth and the Mauris is up for interpretation.

BTW in the former East Germany people have been claiming back land confiscated by the communists.

Maori sold land to new arrivals--the going rate was agreed on -6 muskets 10 axes 15 blankets for the land from this river to that mountain. Now they are saying that they did not know what they were doing--but you apparently do. Methinks I smell a treehugger.