is this one reason why you left the UK?
Apr 24th 2005, 4:02 am
#16
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Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
when you hear 8 year olds saying to teachers that if they touch them they'll call the police...what do we expect....the law makers have gone mad.
I'll lay my reputation on the line here and say, sad though it is, its likely to have been the parent(s) who have told them the teachers are powerless to do anything to them!
As I said in my earlier post Im a teacher and the first day at the school where I work I was shocked by the lack of respect the children (7-8 year olds) had for me - I wasnt they main teacher and so they obviously felt I didn't warrant their attention and co-operation (and this is a 'good' school in a - for want of a better description - very middle class area)
When I was a child EVERY adult was to be respected regardless of who they were!
After a few days at the school the kids realised I wasnt going to have their behaviour and they learned to respect me for being firm but fair but the bottom line is, I shouldnt have had to 'earn' their respect!
Does anyone know when the TV programme will be shown??
I'll lay my reputation on the line here and say, sad though it is, its likely to have been the parent(s) who have told them the teachers are powerless to do anything to them!
As I said in my earlier post Im a teacher and the first day at the school where I work I was shocked by the lack of respect the children (7-8 year olds) had for me - I wasnt they main teacher and so they obviously felt I didn't warrant their attention and co-operation
(and this is a 'good' school in a - for want of a better description - very middle class area) When I was a child EVERY adult was to be respected regardless of who they were!
After a few days at the school the kids realised I wasnt going to have their behaviour and they learned to respect me for being firm but fair but the bottom line is, I shouldnt have had to 'earn' their respect!
Does anyone know when the TV programme will be shown??
Apr 24th 2005, 5:05 am
#17
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Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Did any of you see a series that was on TV a few months ago about teaching 60s style. They took a group of about 60 children and used old fashioned methods within the classroom. I thought it was quite amazing how the small amount of disruptives in the class were soon put in their place and who actually made a turn-around in their attitude. Respect was back !
Children can get away with murder now if they want to !!!
Children can get away with murder now if they want to !!!
Apr 24th 2005, 5:07 am
#18
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Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by hooperhome
Did any of you see a series that was on TV a few months ago about teaching 60s style. They took a group of about 60 children and used old fashioned methods within the classroom. I thought it was quite amazing how the small amount of disruptives in the class were soon put in their place and who actually made a turn-around in their attitude. Respect was back !
Children can get away with murder now if they want to !!!
Children can get away with murder now if they want to !!!
I saw one of these, it was very interesting.
Karen x
Apr 24th 2005, 5:35 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Australia has the same problems as the UK, sadly. 
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15004369-2,00.html
When I was in Oz a few weeks ago I watched a documentary about a failing school in Newcastle (NSW) and the problems they were having with the pupils behaviour. They managed to turn the school around by involving the parents more in the lessons, particularly the dads. They also introduced more vocational studies for the less academic.
Sula
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15004369-2,00.html
When I was in Oz a few weeks ago I watched a documentary about a failing school in Newcastle (NSW) and the problems they were having with the pupils behaviour. They managed to turn the school around by involving the parents more in the lessons, particularly the dads. They also introduced more vocational studies for the less academic.
Sula
Apr 24th 2005, 5:36 am
#20
Cake or Death
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,173
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by pompeywill
The solution is so simple it beggars belief.
BRING BACK THE BIRCH (and I'm not kidding)
BRING BACK THE BIRCH (and I'm not kidding)
I think that these kids simply dont give a sh"t. Lets face it, there is nothing what so ever for them to fear. No consequences to their actions at all.
One of the things that really annoys me is when people say "there is nothing for them to do" These kids have much more that we ever had. I can only make real comparisons to my youth and that of our daughter and her friends. And frankly they have much much more by way of possessions and things to do than I ever had as a kid. And before anyone comments, I am not on a soap box and I am most certainly not upset; on the contrary, I want my daughter to have a better quality of life than I did, but with it must return a level of respect, not just for us a parents but other people as well. I know that if my daughter behaved in such a way, she KNOWS what the consequences would be.
I could say look at the role models, but when I was a kid it was all about the punk movement, (Sex Pistols et al) which in terms of disrespect, is not too much different to that of, say, eminem. So I think there is more to it, probably, as I mentioned before, that these kids know that there will be little consequence to their foul behaviour.
What is more noticable these days is that there is a greater pack mentality amongst these kids, because if you get abuse from one of them and you fight back, what you find is that you have another 10 20 or 30 giving you grief. Agaiin I can only talk from the experiences in my area.
On the point of reasons for leaving.....well kids in schools and their attitude is one but definitely not the main reason: Immigration policy, future, environment, weather way of life, to name but a few.
Oh and on a final note: The only way that you will alter such such abusive and/or destructive behaviour is to make the consequences so bad that they think twice. Maybe the birch is the answer
. Maybe we are living in too much of a politically correct environment. This goes for attitides or handling of disruptive kids and that of minorities.Cheers, G
Apr 24th 2005, 6:13 am
#21
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Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Apr 24th 2005, 7:43 am
#22
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Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
I used to teach. Thats why I gave up teaching, nevermind the reason for leaving the UK
SS
SS
Apr 24th 2005, 7:43 am
#23
Happy Daddy
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Dodgey West Midlands , UK
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Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by DianneH68
I wonder if she had fallen off the table and hurt herself would she have saught compensation from the school
I bet she would have wone :scared:
My poor wife is a supply teacher here in the UK and has refused to go back.
I can understand why.
Bye
Mark
Apr 24th 2005, 7:50 am
#24
jude
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 37
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by markeh
It's only surprising that they didn't tazer her first
I wonder if she had fallen off the table and hurt herself would she have saught compensation from the school
I bet she would have wone :scared:
My poor wife is a supply teacher here in the UK and has refused to go back.
I can understand why.
Bye
Mark
I wonder if she had fallen off the table and hurt herself would she have saught compensation from the school
I bet she would have wone :scared:
My poor wife is a supply teacher here in the UK and has refused to go back.
I can understand why.
Bye
Mark
My step son (aged 18) told us in a horrified manner that some politician or other was proposing that corporal punishment be brought back - he was even more horrified when we both agreed that this would be a good idea! (Still keeps him on his toes!!)
Can't blame your wife for not going back - i have worked with offenders for 11 years but you would not catch me any where near a secondary school in a million years!
Apr 24th 2005, 7:53 am
#25
paradise in the redlands
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Redland Bay, QLD
Posts: 420
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by smood
Bring back the cane, the birch or the bloody cat o nine tails. Teachers need to be feared and respected.
Exactly, respect is lacking in society, and all thanks to the do gooders. Sorry if I upset some with the statement, but its my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I was brought up the "proper way" and it did me no harm.
Neil
Apr 24th 2005, 8:03 am
#26
jude
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 37
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by neil.b
Exactly, respect is lacking in society, and all thanks to the do gooders. Sorry if I upset some with the statement, but its my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I was brought up the "proper way" and it did me no harm.
Neil
Neil
Oops! Sorry for the rant - can you believe I am actually quite a hippy and teach Yoga (I do upset my colleagues fairly frequently though!)
jude
Apr 24th 2005, 8:07 am
#27
paradise in the redlands
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Redland Bay, QLD
Posts: 420
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by judeyoga
Absolutely agree with you Neil! Too many do gooders don't have a realistic idea of the ramifications of their political correctness!
Oops! Sorry for the rant - can you believe I am actually quite a hippy and teach Yoga (I do upset my colleagues fairly frequently though!)
jude
Oops! Sorry for the rant - can you believe I am actually quite a hippy and teach Yoga (I do upset my colleagues fairly frequently though!)
jude
neil
Apr 24th 2005, 11:43 am
#28
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by judeyoga
This is absolutely one of the reasons for us going - we have a 16 month old little boy and i would hate to think of him growing to to think that this is normal.
:
:
Apr 24th 2005, 12:12 pm
#29
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Anyone blaming the parents as we have done the gooders. There are more imaginative punishments than the birch. Making them clear up litter in the snow is a start. Probably the worst punishment I was given at school. The slipper was over too quick.
Classroom discipline is an issue here as well. Around here I will probably have to go private for a decent school.
Classroom discipline is an issue here as well. Around here I will probably have to go private for a decent school.
Apr 24th 2005, 7:25 pm
#30
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Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by iwanttotalktoyou
'The disruption made teaching virtually impossible. I could not believe what I saw'
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
Anyone who thinks that this sort of thing does not go on in Australian schools is being very naive.
To answer the poster's original question - "No".
regards
NJJ
