is this one reason why you left the UK?
Apr 23rd 2005, 2:26 pm
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 81
is this one reason why you left the UK?
'The disruption made teaching virtually impossible. I could not believe what I saw'
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
Apr 23rd 2005, 3:38 pm
#2
Banned
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Angle vale Sth Australia
Posts: 5,353
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by iwanttotalktoyou
'The disruption made teaching virtually impossible. I could not believe what I saw'
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
mm
Apr 23rd 2005, 8:54 pm
#3
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 961
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by iwanttotalktoyou
'The disruption made teaching virtually impossible. I could not believe what I saw'
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
Very interesting (and worrying) reading. It is such a shame that our schooling system in the UK is going this way
When will this be screened???I am a special needs teacher at primary school level and in the area we live (south Bucks) the secondary level of education is very good (we still have the grammar and secondary system).
However, I have to say, being so spoilt here I am a little concerned that when we go to Oz, being that they have a comprehensive system, will the schools be as good/better than we are leaving behind?? I know we will have the chocie of (cheaper than UK) private education but with THREE sons we are not sure if this will be a viable option financially.
We still have lots of research to do.
Thanks for sharing this info.
Karen
Apr 23rd 2005, 9:20 pm
#4
Jammy Dodger
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Not where I'd like to be
Posts: 316
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Yes, yes yes - one reason why I WANT to leave the UK - although I don't doubt it's the same everywhere, or soon will be...
It is the complete disappearance of all respect that I hate. I'm old-fashioned enough to think that it was nice when young children didn't expect to call all adults by their first name... I'm very firm with my own children about respect, for EVERYONE (whatever age, colour, religion, etc... I'm like a broken record!) and regard myself as being pretty strong-minded, but when I'm faced with a teenager, some even younger, being aggressive, rude, really "in-your-face", I admit I am scared.... they will always be ruder, more aggressive, more willing to shout me down than I am them... and they know it. Which means I am powerless, and so just become passive, cross the street....
And no-one can say that they or their children are safe because of where they live - I live in "lovely leafy VERY middle-class Surrey" and the local highlly-sought after boys school was where 2 boys were suspended for threatening to kill a teacher, and we have gangs racing cars (their own, of course!?) and vandalising buildings, playgrounds.... just 'facing you down' as you drive past...
A huge problem is that there is nothing for them to do, and nowhere for them to go but for me it is the lack of respect that means that they can turn their boredom into face-to-face aggression... And parents who, from the start, seem to be afraid to say "no" and take the upper hand with their children. I'm not talking about smacking... just the assumption that you are in charge - just look at all the programmes on tv about children tyrannising their parents, and it is supposed to be a huge revelation when they are told that as parents they are allowed to be in charge.... they don't need the children's permission......
Sorry, I'll get off my soap-box now.... but thanks for the Sunday morning rant. I feel much better now!
Oh, and, yes - I know the situation is probably exactly the same in Australia... and I've been toying with the idea of going into teaching myself, and have always been put off by a friend who trained, taught for 2 terms and then said it was rather like being a zoo-keeper without the cute and cuddly critters..... like being a policeman on crowd control on match day - everyday!
Don't know what the answer is but it worries me a lot
It is the complete disappearance of all respect that I hate. I'm old-fashioned enough to think that it was nice when young children didn't expect to call all adults by their first name... I'm very firm with my own children about respect, for EVERYONE (whatever age, colour, religion, etc... I'm like a broken record!) and regard myself as being pretty strong-minded, but when I'm faced with a teenager, some even younger, being aggressive, rude, really "in-your-face", I admit I am scared.... they will always be ruder, more aggressive, more willing to shout me down than I am them... and they know it. Which means I am powerless, and so just become passive, cross the street....
And no-one can say that they or their children are safe because of where they live - I live in "lovely leafy VERY middle-class Surrey" and the local highlly-sought after boys school was where 2 boys were suspended for threatening to kill a teacher, and we have gangs racing cars (their own, of course!?) and vandalising buildings, playgrounds.... just 'facing you down' as you drive past...
A huge problem is that there is nothing for them to do, and nowhere for them to go but for me it is the lack of respect that means that they can turn their boredom into face-to-face aggression... And parents who, from the start, seem to be afraid to say "no" and take the upper hand with their children. I'm not talking about smacking... just the assumption that you are in charge - just look at all the programmes on tv about children tyrannising their parents, and it is supposed to be a huge revelation when they are told that as parents they are allowed to be in charge.... they don't need the children's permission......
Sorry, I'll get off my soap-box now.... but thanks for the Sunday morning rant. I feel much better now!
Oh, and, yes - I know the situation is probably exactly the same in Australia... and I've been toying with the idea of going into teaching myself, and have always been put off by a friend who trained, taught for 2 terms and then said it was rather like being a zoo-keeper without the cute and cuddly critters..... like being a policeman on crowd control on match day - everyday!
Don't know what the answer is but it worries me a lot
Apr 23rd 2005, 9:30 pm
#5
?????????
Joined: May 2003
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 1,974
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Well to be fair, they did say "Miss"
Apr 23rd 2005, 9:43 pm
#6
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: cheshire, uk
Posts: 97
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
when ever i hear things like this i am completely appalled the sad thing is that i don't think it is down to the school to discipline them. Surely if they had been brought up properly they wouldn't behave like this - we have three teenagers, none of them are angels but they wouldn't dream of talking to any adult in that way.
it is about respect and moral values but also what worries me is the aggression that is seen in children on these kind of programs, where does it come from? why are they so angry?
jax
the sad thing is that i don't think it is down to the school to discipline them. Surely if they had been brought up properly they wouldn't behave like this - we have three teenagers, none of them are angels but they wouldn't dream of talking to any adult in that way.it is about respect and moral values but also what worries me is the aggression that is seen in children on these kind of programs, where does it come from? why are they so angry?
jax
Apr 23rd 2005, 10:04 pm
#7
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Kincumber, Central Coast
Posts: 277
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by iwanttotalktoyou
'The disruption made teaching virtually impossible. I could not believe what I saw'
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
By Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 24/04/2005)
As the petite, middle-aged teacher shouts desperately for the 20th time for the out-of-control class to be quiet, a faint, childish boy's voice can be heard, calling out above the deafening din: "Suck ** ***, miss".
The appalling scene of classroom disorder and disrespect is just one of many captured on film for a channel Five documentary, to be screened this week, which will reignite the debate on how to tackle bad behaviour in schools.
'Sylvia Thomas', a teacher who agreed to film her classes secretly On returning to teaching after a 30-year absence, a supply teacher using the pseudonym Sylvia Thomas secretly filmed shocking examples of lessons ruined by large numbers of pupils over a three-month period.
The documentary shows children aged from 12 to 15 completely ignoring her and other staff while they shout, scream, fight, swear and wander around the classroom at will.
In one scene a full-scale fight breaks out and a 6ft tall boy is seen wielding a rubber truncheon, as the terrified teacher calls for help. In another, pupils throw books, pens and balls of paper across the room for a full 15 minutes as the teacher protests, before they declare that they "don't give a ****". In yet more disturbing scenes, a boy in a computer class is filmed accessing hard-core porn sites and then protesting his innocence, saying "I just typed in '****', miss".
The supply teacher was filming in 15 ordinary secondary schools in London and the north of England - randomly chosen by the supply agencies she contacted, and none of them considered to be failing by recent inspection reports.
Clearly shaken by her experiences, the teacher said she could not comprehend the behaviour she filmed, using a tiny camera hidden in a briefcase and a microphone disguised as a jacket button.
"I could not believe what I saw. I could not describe what I saw," she said. "The disruption that I experienced made teaching virtually impossible. These were schools in middle-class areas, not sink estates. We are not trying to single out the schools in the programme. They could be schools in any part of the country as far as I am concerned, this behaviour is so widespread."
In almost every class, the teacher is seen repeatedly trying to restore order - but her authoritative voice and friendly, no-nonsense approach makes no apparent impact on pupils.
She is ignored or challenged constantly. In one maths class, a 12-year-old who was censured for saying, "Shite, miss!" told her: "I've got just as much right as you to say what I want. I've got a right to speak up for myself."
"It was a constant battle," the teacher said. "Some pupils have got the idea that they can threaten the teacher with the police, with being summoned and sued. Teachers end up walking on eggshells, and when you do that, you can not discipline a child. The balance between the child and the teacher has swung too far in favour of the former - and they know it. The whole way they walk down the corridor says 'We are in control'."
The documentary, Classroom Chaos, to be broadcast on Wednesday, lays bare a growing tide of "low-level disruption" identified earlier this year by school inspectors as a major concern. In his annual report, David Bell, the chief inspector of schools, said that nine per cent of secondaries suffered from "persistent and unsatisfactory" behaviour - up from six per cent in 2000.
Schools staff also report increasing levels of abuse and violence. A recent survey by the Teacher Support Network, a charity that runs a helpline for school staff, found that 98 per cent of respondents had been verbally abused and 45 per cent threatened with violence. One in five had been assaulted and 38 per cent said their personal property had been damaged or defaced.
At its conference last month, the National Union of Teachers, the biggest teacher association, voted for a national charter of behaviour - with sanctions for pupils who breach it - to be drawn up in an attempt to stem the tide.
All three main political parties have pledged to improve school discipline. Ruth Kelly, the Education Secretary, has promised support for teachers who apply zero tolerance in the classroom.
The Government still insists that schools must take their fair share of disruptive pupils, however. The Conservatives have promised to abolish appeals against pupils exclusions and create "turnaround schools" where poorly behaved pupils can be rehabilitated. Some 21,000 new teachers and smaller classes are pledged by the Liberal Democrats.
According to Ms Thomas, however, the turnaround will not be easy. "I thought maybe their behaviour was because I was bad teacher, or because I was on supply," she said. "But I've shown the video to teacher friends and they say the same things have happened to them." She has now given up teaching for good.
Apr 23rd 2005, 10:08 pm
#8
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 109
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Bring back the cane, the birch or the bloody cat o nine tails. Teachers need to be feared and respected.
Apr 23rd 2005, 10:10 pm
#9
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Somerly,Perth
Posts: 545
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
The solution is so simple it beggars belief.
BRING BACK THE BIRCH (and I'm not kidding)
BRING BACK THE BIRCH (and I'm not kidding)
Apr 23rd 2005, 10:22 pm
#10
Now a Mummy!
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Beautiful Sunshine Coast!
Posts: 586
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by pompeywill
The solution is so simple it beggars belief.
BRING BACK THE BIRCH (and I'm not kidding)
BRING BACK THE BIRCH (and I'm not kidding)
Cane, birch, fear equals respect... never did us any harm!!!!
Apr 23rd 2005, 10:58 pm
#11
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,432
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Modernize - Electri-fry!
Last edited by Megalania; Apr 23rd 2005 at 11:17 pm. Reason: Err, avoid legal liabilities - use a licensed electrician!
Apr 23rd 2005, 11:23 pm
#12
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 567
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
This is not a reason that makes me leave the UK. It is ridiculous to assume this behaviour is only found in this country 
. Such behaviour is down to poor parenting, and teachers not having the relevant powers to discipline children 
.
. Such behaviour is down to poor parenting, and teachers not having the relevant powers to discipline children .
Apr 24th 2005, 12:42 am
#13
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Was Kent, UK...now Pacific Pines Gold Coast and loving it
Posts: 800
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by pako
This is not a reason that makes me leave the UK. It is ridiculous to assume this behaviour is only found in this country . Such behaviour is down to poor parenting, and teachers not having the relevant powers to discipline children .
. Such behaviour is down to poor parenting, and teachers not having the relevant powers to discipline children .There is no respect at all over here, it's not how I was bought up and for my poor son, it's not how he will be bought up either.
I think we are all naive if we think it's a UK problem only, but it all depends on what teachers are allowed to do in Oz, regarding control and punishment/discipline. I'm not saying bring back corporal punishment, but to have no method of control is not the answer either...
thanks - got that off my chest now..
Apr 24th 2005, 12:47 am
#14
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
Originally Posted by sonictigger
I agree that parents should take more responsibility, but when you hear 8 year olds saying to teachers that if they touch them they'll call the police...what do we expect....the law makers have gone mad.
.
.
Apr 24th 2005, 1:43 am
#15
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,147
Re: is this one reason why you left the UK?
i wonder what happened when the parents of these children saw the film - were they as outraged and appalled as the rest of us? probaly not unfortunately.
its about time we had a 'jamie oliver' figure to sort out school discipline and parenting skills (or lack of it) - and someone to gag the do-gooders!!
theres a lot to be said for the school of the air in the outback!!!
its about time we had a 'jamie oliver' figure to sort out school discipline and parenting skills (or lack of it) - and someone to gag the do-gooders!!
theres a lot to be said for the school of the air in the outback!!!
