Vash the Stampede

Thanks mate, much appreciated.

Vash the Stampede

It now appears that the situation is even worse than originally thought:
Source.

That just makes my blood boil.

geordie mandy

That is just too awful to contemplate the govenment will surely have to take action , it will be very difficult i know but surely there must be some high profile aborigines who can help in that process .These are criminals at the end of the day and in my opinion should serve time and be allowed no where near children again.
Mandy

phoenixinoz

Dave, this post was started by me as a form of debate.

We [on this site] tend to focus on how Australia will affect us when we get here in terms of food, jobs, people, but we don't often think about the *whole* of Australian society, especially it's indigenous population. I reckon it's not because we don't care, it's just we don't understand or don't think about it.

Having read the news report, I started thinking about how the Aboriginal communities were disconnected from mainstream Australia and the way of life as we know it here, and I wondered if there was an answer to how this could change moving fwd to everyone's benefit, and whether those changes would enable Aborigines to still maintain their culture whilst taking responsibility to integrate.

There was no malice intended towards anyone here, nor have I read anyones comments to be malicious. This is only my perception though. However, if by discussing these problems this is deemed racist, then that is a sorry state of affairs. This is precisely the eggshell syndrome I mentioned that seems to prevail in parts of today's society, a fear of debate, a fear of upsetting the applecart. Perhaps we should all put our head in the sand and pretend these things don't happen and they might go away?

It's not like you to jump to conclusions Dave, so you obviously read something on here that made you react so strongly, and if I have said anything to unwittingly offend then I apologise. I am interested though to understand your point of view and which comments were deemed by you to be racist in your view and why?

Springbok

I can quite understand the theory of reprisals as a form of punishment in a community or a tribe. God knows things like that go on in every community all over the planet. I think the subject matter might have been sent off course though. This was a 4 year old girl. What in heavens name had she done to deserve that treatment or the other small kids mentioned in the article. These men are paedophiles, they are doing these horrendous acts for self gratification and thats the end of it. They should be put down. This is not a matter of arse kissing or being nicey, nicey for fear of offending. Anyone who can claim to think this way should be put down themselves. If it were a white man in Britain he would be spat on and beaten to a pulp once in jail. People would cheer for his demise. How the hell can anyone say don't pick on the poor bugger as it is tradition or he is an Aborigine. If that is the attitude then why are we all moving to what we consider to be a "Better" place to live. I couldn't live under a government that was so spineless as to allow that sort of carry on. And to cause a total air of dis-harmony, please stop using the word racism. This case has naff all to do with it!!!!!!!!

Vash the Stampede

With respect, you have obviously misunderstood what's been posted.

Nobody is suggesting that the rape of the little girl was in any way linked to some form of reprisal or "tradition", nor is anyone saying "don't pick on the poor bugger as it is tradition or he is an Aborigine."

We all agree that it was a sickening crime, with no justification whatsoever.

The comments about reprisals and tradition were made in order to explain and highlight the problems which have arisen as a result of the government's decision to tolerate the observance and enforcement of Aboriginal tribal law in remote communities.

Very well said. I agree with you entirely.

iPom

I haven't met them yet. Only been here 4 weeks. But I gather they are medium sized and Catholic. She is lovely - incredibly beautiful, has a degree and works in Industrial relations. I haven't yet really spoken to her about her heritage as I don't know her well enough, but I would like to when I get past the initial 'hello's'.

Shellfish

I disagree, there have been one or two stupid comments but on the whole I think what people are saying is the law is the law, regardless of who you are.

Vash the Stampede

Don't know about local government, but there are and have been some Aboriginal politicians.

Not enough, though...

Vash the Stampede

Around 70% of Aborigines live in urban communities; in fact, two Aboriginal families lived across the road from me when I was in Western Australia.

Having said that, the Aboriginal population is very small; only 2% of Australians are Aborigines.

The Convict Creations Website has an excellent article on the dilemma of Aboriginal socio-economic disadvantage. Click here to read it.

Notice that the federal budget for Aboriginal expenditure is massive; it reached $2.5 billion in the financial year 2003-2004. That's $2.5 billion spent on 2% of Australia's entire population. And yet, so little has changed.

This is proof - if any was needed - that the problems cannot be solved with money alone. Change has to begin at the grassroots level, on both sides of the rabbit-proof fence.

Simone

Something people might also not be aware of:
You can't class 'aboriginals' as one group. There are very, very many (hundreds?) of different tribes, that all have different languages and different laws, etc etc.

Please remember that not all secret mens business involve raping etc (geez, I'm quite sure my dad has even attended a corroborre that was secret mens business, I'm sure he didn't rape anyone ) and not all communities are this violent (the two I lived in when I was about 9 (1991) were definetly not this bad. I don't remember that much, but I don't think there were ever murders(while we lived there). I remember there was a suicide once, and noone could live in the house for ages afterwards, that was the tradition. Reminds me of the thing that they can't look at pictures or video who have passed away.


Anyway, I'm definetly NOT saying that the problems don't exist, or that they aren't big enough to worry about/be upset about/do something about. I'm just saying don't be 'racist' and think all the communities are like this.
There are also plenty of aboriginals out there who are integrated etc etc (two ladies at the post office I go to)

I am also not directing this at anyone, they are just general comments to remember.



p.s. don't have a clue how problems are going to be fixed. It's a huge mess. It's not the only huge mess though. (this is the part when I start getting depressed about the state of the world.... arghghhhhh!!!!!)

movetoperth

I've not read all the posts on this thread as i've run out of time but thought i'd put in my 20c worth anyway.

The crimes reported are apalling yes, but they are not representative of the "whole" indigenous community. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush and i believe that good and bad exist in all races. There are a few aboriginal families who live around where i do, some who have problems, some who seem not to.

But......

A crime is a crime whether it is comitted by someone in a city or someone in a tribal community, as far as i'm aware the law of the country is the law of the country irresective of your colour, please someone set me straight if i'm wrong.

I know many people who have a huge hatred of Aboriginal people, and i've found that their main problem with them is that the aussie government and the PC brigade has spent the last 20 years trying to make up for the past with the aboriginals, communities receive large government handouts etc, but many of them squander it, yet more keeps coming, many whites feel that aboriginals get a disproportionate amount of help from the government as opposed to the battling white fella and also feels that the aboriginal community is "milking" what has gone before.

Lynn

Vash the Stampede

Great posts, those last two.

thribble

By acknowledging and dealing with the problem, openly and honestly. Although the situation was different - the Jews are no longer put into ghettos.
Whatever your view, getting over it and moving on is something that seems to be impossible. Ignoring a problem doesn't solve it.

I don't know about Chile, and I'm sure as heck not opening the Iraq can of worms here, but if you look into it you'll find that Uganda have an amazing and unique way of dealing with many of their problems. They are (I believe) the only country in Africa where the rate of increase in Aids cases is falling. They invite back into the community former soldiers with the rebels, holding a forgiveness ceremony and wiping the slate clean. They could be an inspiration if anybody took notice.

Yes, education would be great. But a lot of the missions they were put onto didn't have schools until very recently. They were put onto land that was of no use to white men, so it can't be that good for farming etc. There is very little industry in the outback. How would you suggest they earn a living? Perhaps the government is throwing the money in the wrong places, but at least there's some money going there.
I do. Thanks.