Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Jan 15th 2005, 8:25 am
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Originally Posted by odaat
Bal56,
We were young, qualified and used our quals initially to see Europe + America.
We then travelled + worked across Arabia to raise lots of tax free cash.
Once we had a child, we migrated to Oz for the weather, schooling and lifestyle.
What we did not realise about Australia was the *people paradigm*, The average Oz in the street is obsessed with chronic self seeking and consumer buying. If you do not share the passion for sports and beer - be prepared for a life of isolation. There is real prejudice towards Brits who migrate and take jobs off Australian's, especially skilled and management jobs. You will probably have to start on a temp. contract of work - this will reduce your chances of cheap credit and getting a mortgage. Many Australians have no idea how much the world has changed and that Britain is no longer empire building and that non whites + women have rights !!
We are the lucky ones, we were able to leave with minimum loss on our investments i.e. investment property purchases made good money for us.
We left Oz and returned to UK for better paying jobs and a successful business opportunity, our children have settled into the english private prep schools and the wife has got her country house in the english countryside - many are not so lucky and return to renting and starting again.
Migrating to Oz with seven children, little cash and no job prospects is too high a risk factor IMO..... especially as the Australian bank interest rate is up to 7.5%, the property market is fast cooling, the economy is starting to shrink and job losses have been announced. On top of all that - you do not have access to social benefit for the next 24 months.
"cheap" housing areas including council estate housing in Oz do exist - they are just as crime ridden and dangerous as in UK. The use of hard and soft drug taking in Oz is epidemic in proportion to drug use in the UK .... perhaps you should check out the "moving back to UK" thread for more on why it is absolutely imperative to go see and scout before you commit the family to migrate.
As for giving 3 months work notice - I suggest you speak to the management and explain you need time out to investigate Australia and ensure you are moving for the right reason .... i.e. the good of the family and take a leave of absence - they will totally inderstand.
Australia is no longer the "it'l be right mate" social state it once was, it is more like a corporation with the a specific aim of making profit through taxing YOU and other australians.
ps - more skilled australian's *immigrate* than migrate per year - does that tell you something
?
odaat.
We were young, qualified and used our quals initially to see Europe + America.
We then travelled + worked across Arabia to raise lots of tax free cash.
Once we had a child, we migrated to Oz for the weather, schooling and lifestyle.
What we did not realise about Australia was the *people paradigm*, The average Oz in the street is obsessed with chronic self seeking and consumer buying. If you do not share the passion for sports and beer - be prepared for a life of isolation. There is real prejudice towards Brits who migrate and take jobs off Australian's, especially skilled and management jobs. You will probably have to start on a temp. contract of work - this will reduce your chances of cheap credit and getting a mortgage. Many Australians have no idea how much the world has changed and that Britain is no longer empire building and that non whites + women have rights !!
We are the lucky ones, we were able to leave with minimum loss on our investments i.e. investment property purchases made good money for us.
We left Oz and returned to UK for better paying jobs and a successful business opportunity, our children have settled into the english private prep schools and the wife has got her country house in the english countryside - many are not so lucky and return to renting and starting again.
Migrating to Oz with seven children, little cash and no job prospects is too high a risk factor IMO..... especially as the Australian bank interest rate is up to 7.5%, the property market is fast cooling, the economy is starting to shrink and job losses have been announced. On top of all that - you do not have access to social benefit for the next 24 months.
"cheap" housing areas including council estate housing in Oz do exist - they are just as crime ridden and dangerous as in UK. The use of hard and soft drug taking in Oz is epidemic in proportion to drug use in the UK .... perhaps you should check out the "moving back to UK" thread for more on why it is absolutely imperative to go see and scout before you commit the family to migrate.
As for giving 3 months work notice - I suggest you speak to the management and explain you need time out to investigate Australia and ensure you are moving for the right reason .... i.e. the good of the family and take a leave of absence - they will totally inderstand.
Australia is no longer the "it'l be right mate" social state it once was, it is more like a corporation with the a specific aim of making profit through taxing YOU and other australians.
ps - more skilled australian's *immigrate* than migrate per year - does that tell you something
? odaat.
of Poms that pack into posh British departments stores like Harrods everyday are doing? buying gifts to donate to the Tsunami victims, l don't think so.
You say Aussies are obsessed with sport and beer, what about the average
Poms obsession with soccer and drunken soccer hooligans that bash people
in the street and rival fans. Atleast in Australia you can go to a game of football and not be stabbed becuase you support the wrong team.
You say the drug problem is worse in OZ , what a load of garbage, tell me where you got those statistics from. The overall crime rate in Britain in higher then Australia.
Last edited by wombat42; Jan 15th 2005 at 8:31 am.
Jan 15th 2005, 8:29 am
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Originally Posted by MarkMyWords
More lies. Good grief, where's wombat42 when you want him?.
Read my reply above.
Last edited by wombat42; Jan 15th 2005 at 8:33 am.
Jan 15th 2005, 12:54 pm
#48
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 223
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Originally Posted by wombat42
Thanks for asking for me. Wombat to the rescue.
Read my reply above.
Read my reply above.
In Australia generally, the maximum penalty for possession of small amounts of cannabis is two years imprisonment. In South Australia and the Australian Capital Territory, however, possession of small amounts of cannabis has been decriminalized. Trafficking in illegal drugs may be punished with life imprisonment.
Despite the legal position, Australia’s National Drug Strategy since the late 1990s has been one of 'harm minimization’, rather than prevention or a drug-free society. Through the late ‘90s , there has been a movement in the allocation of funding, from law enforcement to education.
As an educational policy, harm minimization is defined as teaching safe use of drugs, abstinence is not seriously addressed. Other features of Australia’s harm minimization policy are an extensive free needle exchange programme and free methadone maintenance for heroin addicts.
Sweden
Australia
Lifetime prevalence of drug use in
16-29 year olds (Sweden) and 14-25 year olds (Australia)
11%
62%
Use in the previous year, as above
12%
43%
Estimated dependent heroin users per million population
500
8-10,000
Percentage of dependent users aged under 20
3.5%
11.2%
Methadone patients per million population
50
1640
Drug-related deaths per million population
23
78
Percentage of all deaths at age under 25
3.5%
5.7%
Drug offences per million population -
Sweden = arrests; Australia = convictions
3100
1000
Average months in prison per drug offence
20
5
Property crimes per million population
51,000
77,000
Cumulative AIDS cases per million population
150
630
Outcomes:
The accompanying table shows comparative figures on drug abuse and related factors for Sweden and Australia as presented in the United Nations World Drug Report 2002 (adjusted where necessary to a rate basis).
The comparative figures for drug use in Sweden and Australia, taken in conjunction with education policies which promote abstinence versus safe usage, suggest that Australia’s policy of harm minimization has induced widespread drug usage - 62% lifetime usage (i.e., used at least once) in Australia compared with 9% in Sweden. :scared:
Further data indicate that the change from the liberal to prohibitive in Swedish policy has been effective in reducing the initiation of young users, whereas usage by young people in Australia has been rising over the same period.
The highest prevalence of lifetime usage in Sweden occurs in the 30-49 years age group. In Australia, the rates of usage are minimal above age 40, while the greatest increase in use has occurred in the 14-24 years age group. This demonstrates the success of education in harm minimization in encouraging drug use, particularly in the age group most exposed to drug education - school children.
Only 3.5% of Swedish young people (aged under 20) are drug dependent, compared with 9.2% of Australians in the same age group.
The information conveyed in harm minimization education is clearly unable to counteract the effect of higher usage rates. Drug-related death rates are three times as high in Australia as in Sweden - 78 versus 23 per million population. Moreover, the share of under 25 year-olds in drug-related deaths in Sweden is very low - only 3.6%. The Australian figure in this category was not available, but the percentage of all deaths at age under 25 (6.7% compared with 1.5% in Sweden) indicates a higher presence of trauma for Australian young people, of which drug taking is likely to form a part.
Free needle distribution in Australia does not appear to have resulted in better control of the AIDS epidemic here, with our cumulative AIDS rate more than triple that of Sweden. While the proportion of methadone patients to heroin addicts is similar in the two countries, one may conjecture that the use of methadone for rehabilitation in Sweden, rather than for maintenance as in Australia, contributes to the dramatically lower rate of heroin addiction there (less by a factor of at least 10).
The higher rate of illegal drug use in Australia is the more remarkable in that Australians are roughly as law-abiding as Swedes in relation to property crime, and far less violent. The lower ratio of convictions to usage rates in Australia may well encourage contempt of the law.
The proponents of the harm minimization strategy in Australia claim that Australia is leading the world in the public health of drug abuse.
These figures suggest, rather, that it is leading us in the opposite direction, and that a policy like Sweden’s, which addresses its goals straightforwardly and unambiguously, rather than deviously, is more successful in practice.
Jan 15th 2005, 12:58 pm
#49
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 223
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
the stats for UK are just too dismall to print. 
Jan 15th 2005, 6:34 pm
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Originally Posted by odaat
Australia:
In Australia generally, the maximum penalty for possession of small amounts of cannabis is two years imprisonment. In South Australia and the Australian Capital Territory, however, possession of small amounts of cannabis has been decriminalized. Trafficking in illegal drugs may be punished with life imprisonment.
Despite the legal position, Australia’s National Drug Strategy since the late 1990s has been one of 'harm minimization’, rather than prevention or a drug-free society. Through the late ‘90s , there has been a movement in the allocation of funding, from law enforcement to education.
As an educational policy, harm minimization is defined as teaching safe use of drugs, abstinence is not seriously addressed. Other features of Australia’s harm minimization policy are an extensive free needle exchange programme and free methadone maintenance for heroin addicts.
Sweden
Australia
Lifetime prevalence of drug use in
16-29 year olds (Sweden) and 14-25 year olds (Australia)
11%
62%
Use in the previous year, as above
12%
43%
Estimated dependent heroin users per million population
500
8-10,000
Percentage of dependent users aged under 20
3.5%
11.2%
Methadone patients per million population
50
1640
Drug-related deaths per million population
23
78
Percentage of all deaths at age under 25
3.5%
5.7%
Drug offences per million population -
Sweden = arrests; Australia = convictions
3100
1000
Average months in prison per drug offence
20
5
Property crimes per million population
51,000
77,000
Cumulative AIDS cases per million population
150
630
Outcomes:
The accompanying table shows comparative figures on drug abuse and related factors for Sweden and Australia as presented in the United Nations World Drug Report 2002 (adjusted where necessary to a rate basis).
The comparative figures for drug use in Sweden and Australia, taken in conjunction with education policies which promote abstinence versus safe usage, suggest that Australia’s policy of harm minimization has induced widespread drug usage - 62% lifetime usage (i.e., used at least once) in Australia compared with 9% in Sweden. :scared:
Further data indicate that the change from the liberal to prohibitive in Swedish policy has been effective in reducing the initiation of young users, whereas usage by young people in Australia has been rising over the same period.
The highest prevalence of lifetime usage in Sweden occurs in the 30-49 years age group. In Australia, the rates of usage are minimal above age 40, while the greatest increase in use has occurred in the 14-24 years age group. This demonstrates the success of education in harm minimization in encouraging drug use, particularly in the age group most exposed to drug education - school children.
Only 3.5% of Swedish young people (aged under 20) are drug dependent, compared with 9.2% of Australians in the same age group.
The information conveyed in harm minimization education is clearly unable to counteract the effect of higher usage rates. Drug-related death rates are three times as high in Australia as in Sweden - 78 versus 23 per million population. Moreover, the share of under 25 year-olds in drug-related deaths in Sweden is very low - only 3.6%. The Australian figure in this category was not available, but the percentage of all deaths at age under 25 (6.7% compared with 1.5% in Sweden) indicates a higher presence of trauma for Australian young people, of which drug taking is likely to form a part.
Free needle distribution in Australia does not appear to have resulted in better control of the AIDS epidemic here, with our cumulative AIDS rate more than triple that of Sweden. While the proportion of methadone patients to heroin addicts is similar in the two countries, one may conjecture that the use of methadone for rehabilitation in Sweden, rather than for maintenance as in Australia, contributes to the dramatically lower rate of heroin addiction there (less by a factor of at least 10).
The higher rate of illegal drug use in Australia is the more remarkable in that Australians are roughly as law-abiding as Swedes in relation to property crime, and far less violent. The lower ratio of convictions to usage rates in Australia may well encourage contempt of the law.
The proponents of the harm minimization strategy in Australia claim that Australia is leading the world in the public health of drug abuse.
These figures suggest, rather, that it is leading us in the opposite direction, and that a policy like Sweden’s, which addresses its goals straightforwardly and unambiguously, rather than deviously, is more successful in practice.
In Australia generally, the maximum penalty for possession of small amounts of cannabis is two years imprisonment. In South Australia and the Australian Capital Territory, however, possession of small amounts of cannabis has been decriminalized. Trafficking in illegal drugs may be punished with life imprisonment.
Despite the legal position, Australia’s National Drug Strategy since the late 1990s has been one of 'harm minimization’, rather than prevention or a drug-free society. Through the late ‘90s , there has been a movement in the allocation of funding, from law enforcement to education.
As an educational policy, harm minimization is defined as teaching safe use of drugs, abstinence is not seriously addressed. Other features of Australia’s harm minimization policy are an extensive free needle exchange programme and free methadone maintenance for heroin addicts.
Sweden
Australia
Lifetime prevalence of drug use in
16-29 year olds (Sweden) and 14-25 year olds (Australia)
11%
62%
Use in the previous year, as above
12%
43%
Estimated dependent heroin users per million population
500
8-10,000
Percentage of dependent users aged under 20
3.5%
11.2%
Methadone patients per million population
50
1640
Drug-related deaths per million population
23
78
Percentage of all deaths at age under 25
3.5%
5.7%
Drug offences per million population -
Sweden = arrests; Australia = convictions
3100
1000
Average months in prison per drug offence
20
5
Property crimes per million population
51,000
77,000
Cumulative AIDS cases per million population
150
630
Outcomes:
The accompanying table shows comparative figures on drug abuse and related factors for Sweden and Australia as presented in the United Nations World Drug Report 2002 (adjusted where necessary to a rate basis).
The comparative figures for drug use in Sweden and Australia, taken in conjunction with education policies which promote abstinence versus safe usage, suggest that Australia’s policy of harm minimization has induced widespread drug usage - 62% lifetime usage (i.e., used at least once) in Australia compared with 9% in Sweden. :scared:
Further data indicate that the change from the liberal to prohibitive in Swedish policy has been effective in reducing the initiation of young users, whereas usage by young people in Australia has been rising over the same period.
The highest prevalence of lifetime usage in Sweden occurs in the 30-49 years age group. In Australia, the rates of usage are minimal above age 40, while the greatest increase in use has occurred in the 14-24 years age group. This demonstrates the success of education in harm minimization in encouraging drug use, particularly in the age group most exposed to drug education - school children.
Only 3.5% of Swedish young people (aged under 20) are drug dependent, compared with 9.2% of Australians in the same age group.
The information conveyed in harm minimization education is clearly unable to counteract the effect of higher usage rates. Drug-related death rates are three times as high in Australia as in Sweden - 78 versus 23 per million population. Moreover, the share of under 25 year-olds in drug-related deaths in Sweden is very low - only 3.6%. The Australian figure in this category was not available, but the percentage of all deaths at age under 25 (6.7% compared with 1.5% in Sweden) indicates a higher presence of trauma for Australian young people, of which drug taking is likely to form a part.
Free needle distribution in Australia does not appear to have resulted in better control of the AIDS epidemic here, with our cumulative AIDS rate more than triple that of Sweden. While the proportion of methadone patients to heroin addicts is similar in the two countries, one may conjecture that the use of methadone for rehabilitation in Sweden, rather than for maintenance as in Australia, contributes to the dramatically lower rate of heroin addiction there (less by a factor of at least 10).
The higher rate of illegal drug use in Australia is the more remarkable in that Australians are roughly as law-abiding as Swedes in relation to property crime, and far less violent. The lower ratio of convictions to usage rates in Australia may well encourage contempt of the law.
The proponents of the harm minimization strategy in Australia claim that Australia is leading the world in the public health of drug abuse.
These figures suggest, rather, that it is leading us in the opposite direction, and that a policy like Sweden’s, which addresses its goals straightforwardly and unambiguously, rather than deviously, is more successful in practice.
you or anyone else post the statistics that support you claim that drug use is worse in OZ then the Uk.
Jan 15th 2005, 6:47 pm
#51
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 68
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Originally Posted by bal56
If it has any relevance - I'm 40.
thought we'd reply as were from leicester to
i'm michelle and aged 27 and my husband wack is 40 on tues 18th jan!
we haev been to perth and loved it, we are at the trades asses stage and hope to move out there visas permitting early 2006
i think you should give perth a go, even if you cant get a job in in I.T there are many doors that open over there, you might find yourself doing something completly different, you could even earn good enough money in a short term job, whilst waiting for a better position.
perth is fab, go there!!
Jan 15th 2005, 6:52 pm
#52
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Hi
I have been to Perth and i loved it, we wanted to live there, but because my other half got offered a job in Melbourne we are going there now for 1-2 years.
At first I didnt really fancy Melbourne, but the more I have found out about it, it looks quite appealling and i am looking forward to it now, although we will probably eventally settle in Perth.
I will let you know when I get to Melbourne, what I think as to which is best, i arrive on 4th Feb, so just PM me if you need to ask anything, although you may have made up your mind already....
good luck
laura
xx
I have been to Perth and i loved it, we wanted to live there, but because my other half got offered a job in Melbourne we are going there now for 1-2 years.
At first I didnt really fancy Melbourne, but the more I have found out about it, it looks quite appealling and i am looking forward to it now, although we will probably eventally settle in Perth.
I will let you know when I get to Melbourne, what I think as to which is best, i arrive on 4th Feb, so just PM me if you need to ask anything, although you may have made up your mind already....
good luck
laura
xx
Jan 17th 2005, 11:13 am
#53
Alive and boinging!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Kinross, WA
Posts: 348
Re: Melbourne or Perth - Can anyone help us decide?
Thanks for all your input folks, whether positive or cautionary - as I said before all information is good information.
The worry prompted by some respondants resulted in a long phone call on Sunday with a friend who has been in Perth for three years now and is doing very well. This somewhat allieviated the worry.
Having a go at Perth first looks favourite. If I can't get a job after x months, I'll have to try Melbourne.
Time now for some more detailed budgeting to find out how long 'x' should be and scouring of Perth recruitment agents ....
The worry prompted by some respondants resulted in a long phone call on Sunday with a friend who has been in Perth for three years now and is doing very well. This somewhat allieviated the worry.
Having a go at Perth first looks favourite. If I can't get a job after x months, I'll have to try Melbourne.
Time now for some more detailed budgeting to find out how long 'x' should be and scouring of Perth recruitment agents ....
