Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

I agree. $100 an hour is way off the mark for an MCSE, let alone someone with only a years experience. Quoting a figure for self-employed work is also unrealistic as unless you have a very successful business up and running from the word go, you aren't going to be getting in $100 an hour, 8 hours a day, 22 days a month.

You do also wonder what the real value of these certifications are if they can be obtained without a hard slog of a number of years of solid experience. Probably end up with a load of people who have studied the theory (largely thanks to mock exams) but don't have a clue how to properly apply it in real world situations ... and will get caught out in interviews.

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

Hi,

So... if i trained to be an electrician i would need 2yrs experience and then i could come over on the skilled visa. But i couldnt be employed as an electrician as i need an artc?

So if i did this and got the visa i could get a job as an electricians mate or labourer while i train couldt i?

If so how long would i need to train for to get the artc then?

Also in response to the MCSE questions, i did a fast track course that took 6 months and cost me £5000 nearly. I know what im talking about and certainly not an idiot with just a paper to say i got a qualification. I cant go that route as i need 4yrs experience and not waiting that long.

Matt

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

Hi Matt,

Clarifying the earlier comment....

....In no way was my above comment meant to imply that just because you have less than 1 years experience with your MCSE that you do not know what you are talking about.

It is simply a supply/demand issue here.

I see the ads on TV here all the time for Excomm (an IT training company), who "guarantee a job in IT in just 4months" after you complete one of these pricey 6 month accelerated, intensive certification courses.
http://www.excom.com.au/default.php?...tle=EXpress+IT

They push it all the time - really does my head in a bit, but I can see how the advertising does work.

As a result, there is a very large supply of these relatively inexperienced, but certified people all chasing the same plum jobs. 'IT' is a large area, so Excomm can usually live up to their guarantee, but the quality of the job you will get as a result due to the large oversupply is the question.

Buried behind all of their advertising is their escape clause ...
“EXCOM Education Guarantees EXpress IT graduates a Job in IT within four months of completing all EXpress IT course modules, or we will give you an additional $5,500 of technical training.”

....so the MCSE will cost you $11,000 - but if they can't get you that 'guaranteed' job, they will give you another 5,500 of further free training...

It's a clever way to avoid the lawsuits I think....

Yes, people get into IT as a 6 month course is a quicker option than the several years it takes to complete an apprenticeship as a sparky for example, but as a result, there are sooooo many people doing it.

Consequently, to make youself stand out, you need to really shine to be able to land that genuine decent job if your IT experience is less than a few years and your only qualification is an MCSE that was obtained in a 6 month intensive course.

I wish you the very best of luck as I know what it is like out there when you are trying to break in. If you have a genuine passion for what you do and you have an above average work ethic though, it will always work out for you in the end.

Regards,

@boy
CCNP, CCSE, MCSE/MCSA(W2K), ITIL
Full time in IT since 1992

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

You would have to attend TAFE, and they would give you recognition of prior learning (RPL). Then they would tell you which parts of the training you would need to do to get a full licence - it could take anything up to the 4 years depending on what the TAFE say :)

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

There is an element of truth in this though as when we were applying with my hubbies MCSE which was in both 2003 and windows NT4, we were told that they think more of the NT4 because there were no mock exams etc around to help you along.

Jo

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

MCSE's are pretty much worthless in the industry now. Employers will obviously take note that you have an ability to learn, but by far they will be more interested in your skills and experience. Too many people who use mock exams etc have devalued the MCSE qualification. I done mine back in 2000 and don't think I'll bother going to 2003 or onto 2008.

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

That's an interesting conversation piece I've heard thrashed out many times. yes there are boot camps and braindumps and yes there are a great many paper MCSE's, but my take of late has been if it's that easy why don't you have it - and believe me I'm not trying to have a personal dig. Think about it - if the win2k3 is so easy to pass for someone who doesn't have much experience or knowledge then why as an IT pro not take it? It's like the old adage about better to have a weapon you don't need than need a weapon you don't have.

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

I think you will find that documented experience and demonstratable skill are more useful here. I'm an MCSD .NET and a 20 year veteran software architect. I rarely get asked for documentation on my qualifications. It's the projects that I have delivered and the references from industry peers and clients that get us work.

ACS will accept some qualifications as degree equivalent, but you still need the relevant documented experience in the industry using the skills that you are offering. Sadly I don't think there is any easy route or way to avoid having the relevant experience.

Good luck!

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

Erm, mainly because I don't have the time/inclination to take a week out for the upgrade exams.

Furthermore, the jobs that I have been in recently wouldnt have been swayed one way or another whether I had 2003 ceritification or not. As I say, the vast majority of people in the industry don't really rate the certification.

I've been asked to review hundreds of CVs and the certification is so, so common. Seen it all before, when you get guys in for interview and ask simple questions on topics they should know (if they're MCSE qualified) and they look at you with a vacant stare. As I said, very much a paper qualification which has been ruined by braindumps etc

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

I have heard that as well. There are some people who can just walk into the exams and take them. I was in a group of about 20 people who took three of the exams towards the MCSD on the same day. A lot of these guys all claimed that they had just walked in and knew it all, no sweat. They all failed. In fact out of the 20 who took the exams only 6 passed and only 2 passed on the first attempt.

If you have taken them before you will know that it's not just what you know (and you do have to actually know your shit) it's more about knowing how they phrase the questions and try to trick you into rushing your answer. What appears to be a brain dead question usually isn't and catches people out time after time. Also the final exams, like the one on Solution Architectures, are specifically about doing it the Microsoft way and are highly subjective with several plausible answers to each case.

I actually had a ton of fun doing the exams and over the months met many really nice people. I don't get to mingle much with other devs outside of conventions and MS and Oracle events so it was nice to test out my knowledge against my peers and see how I "ranked". I would certainly do more exams. In fact I have been toying with doing all the Java certs, but having the time and money is a different matter.

I also think it is very different for those in full time employment who are sponsored and supported financially by their employers.

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

Cool, I'll bear in mind that the aussie test centres don't open at weekends like the ones in the UK. Plus the guys at work will be double made up that I actually for real spoke to 'someone in the industry'. Any chance of an autograph for the girls in the typing pool :D

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

Lets hope your IT skills are better than you're poorly constructed, semi-patronsing responses. As many others have already said MCSE ain't up to much at all these days. Get a decent job with some recognised companies and save your cash, time and effort.

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

You know I really wasn't looking for a flame war, hence the smiley face and the statement that I wasn't having a dig. Let's just agree to disagree....

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

I forgot my smilie :rofl:

Re: MCSE or Electrician?
 

It's true though, I hear a lot of people saying that they did the training for their MCSE but haven't had the time to do the exams. It's a cop out as the exams don't take long to do and if you had the time and inclination to do the training you'd do the exams as well.

As to my earlier comment about what you can get paid, let me clarify - an MCSE with experience and common sense could easily earn $100 per hour self employed. Who cares about 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year etc? You could get 20 hrs a week ($2000) and work 26 weeks a year (making $52000) and still earn more than a lot of people over here. A sparky in a similar position might earn $60 an hour so would need more work but could earn just as much.