Implications of taking citizenship
 

We've been 3 yrs in Australia now and it seems an appropriate time to consider taking citizenship. The only potential negatives of doing this I'm aware of are:

1. Obligation to vote
2. Cannot take Australian accumulated Super back to UK if ever decide to return. But can if remain as a resident only.

Does anyone know of any other implications?

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

You have to travel abroad on an Aus passport even if you retain your British one. I'm not saying this is a negative, but it is an implication.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

If there's a war you could be called up for service. Although I don't see any of these as negatives. It's all part of choosing to live here.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

You know its true, you really do learn something every day, that's 4 things I didn't know were implications of becoming a citizen!!!!. I knew you would be allowed to vote, but didn't know you had to. I definately didn't know that if you become a citizen you can't move any super back to the UK should you go back. I also didnt know you had to travel on your oz passport, why can;t you travel using your british one???? And Dorothy (how are you and how's perth luvvie??? and is that your wee dog, totally gorgeous!!!!!) I wrongly presumed that it would be like the UK and that you could only get called up if you were actually in the army or reserves, so there you are I've learnt a few things today :)

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

It is like the UK; Australia does not have compulsory military conscription. Under normal circumstances, Australians can only be called up if they are actually in the army or reserves.

What Dorothy means is that if Australia were to introduce compulsory conscription during wartime (as occurred during the Vietnam war), Australian citizens would be called up to serve in the forces.

Foreign residents would be exempt.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Well that makes me sleep easier at night :) I was thinking I better get fit quick just in case like :D

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Surely this only means for travelling in & out of Australia? What passport you use at the other destination can still be UK one?

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Technically no, you are supposed to travel on an Aus passport, but in reality, I would assume you could use a British one. You would certainly have problems leaving Aus without a Aussie passport.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

What Vash said. Funny enough, this morning I was listening to the radio about a singer (sorry, forgot his name) who was conscripted into the Vietnam war because the Gov't thought it would be a good way of convincing other young men to join...If Famous Singer goes to Vietnam, then you should too. It was only recently that the government admitted that he wasn't randomly picked, but in fact chosen because of who he is.

Anyway, Perth is going ok. I've got a great temp job at a large public hospital in the cancer clinic. It was supposed to be for 1 week. That was just over 3 months ago. I've applied for the position permanently, and will find out soon if I've got it.
Yes, that's my favourite child. He's a lot bigger now, though. I'll post a more up to date photo soon. How's things with you?

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Surely only if leaving Oz. I travel Europe on my British one and I entered the UK on my British one but had to leave Oz on my aussie one

from www.smarttraveller.gov.au

PASSPORTS AND VISAS
Entering and leaving Australia
To avoid delays at airline check-in and again at the border entry point, Australian citizens who are dual nationals are advised to leave and return to Australia on their Australian passport. An Australian citizen cannot be granted a visa for Australia.

When entering Australia, all Australians, including those who hold dual nationality, must be able to prove that they are an Australian citizen. An Australian passport is conclusive evidence of a person's identity and citizenship, and provides the holder with unfettered right of entry to Australia.

An Australian citizen who arrives without an Australian passport may be delayed until their identity and claims to enter Australia have been checked. If a person holding a foreign passport claims to be an Australian citizen, immigration officers must confirm and verify this through official databases. This will invariably cause some delays to the person while the authorities undertake the necessary enquiries.

International airlines have an obligation to ensure that they only carry appropriately documented passengers to Australia. In the absence of an Australian passport, airlines are unable to assess an Australian citizen's claimed citizenship at the time of check-in and may decline to carry the traveller. Or, they may have to make inquiries with the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) in Australia to seek approval to carry the passenger, which takes time and may cause inconvenience to the passenger.

Entering and leaving country of other nationality
Dual nationals may often find it easier to enter the country of their other nationality on that country's passport, but leaving can sometimes be more difficult. You may need an exit visa if you entered on a passport of that country.

Before leaving Australia, check with that country's embassy or consulate in Australia.

Jo

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

You can knock #2 off your list. Only Temp Residents can take their super back. As you're up for citizenship then you must be a PR which means you can't take your super back.

Voting's a doddle. You can turn up and put the paper in the bin of you don't want to actually vote.

The only real downside (and it's not really much of a downside) is that you can't get back into Aus without an Aussie Passport. Australians can't hold an Australian visa which is why you can't use another passport to get in.

Technical downsides are:
- you may be called up to fight in a war.
- you will have to renounce your other citizenships if you want to become a Federal MP.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

[QUOTE=
- you will have to renounce your other citizenships if you want to become a Federal MP.[/QUOTE]

I thought you had to hold only Australian Citizenship for any of the 3 tiers of parliament?:confused:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

At Federal level you should be Aussie only. There is an exception if the other country does not allow you to give up citizenship.

Most (if not all) State level and council you can be dual.

I felt a bit short changed when I found out. They didn't say anything about it on the citizenship forms. I did ask for a discount but they wouldn't give me one. :D

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

having half your brain removed and given a pair of thongs



hope no Born Australians reading :eek::eek:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Thanks for clearing that up.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

only advantage of aussie citizenship is an easy passage through the clowns at MLB and SYD.

no more , no less.

I leave Oz regularly on an Oz Pass and enter UK/Europe on a UK one.

:thumbup:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Having to eat a vegemite sandwich as part of the citizenship ceremony:rofl:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

To see someone describe an 'obligation to vote' as a 'potential negative' really, really raises my hackles.

Have you any idea the measures and sacrifices that have been taken (and still are) by people around the world in order to have the right to vote ?
Obviously not.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

I can see how it helps to get you into Sydney but you'd be a clown to think it gives you easy passage into Florida. ;):sneaky::D


Last year our friends flew into MEL and booked the hire car in MLB. :blink:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

:lol:
Oops!!!!!:o

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Permanent residents can't do that either, so the advice was well meaning but wrong.


Because how on earth are the Australians going to know you are a citizen (on arrival) if you don't carry a passport to prove it?

You can do what you like overseas.


Permanent residents could be conscripted just like citizens.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

:rofl:

Yep, we're booked in for our lobotomies.... :thumbup:

(OMG I hope I spelt that right!! :o)

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

I know what you mean, I cant understand how having the right to have a say in how the country is run could possibly be a negative.... :blink:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Quite right. They have been in the past.

My husband delayed his immigration to Australia until he was 21 (he was originally coming when he was 18). Had he arrived before he was 21, he could potentially have been drafted to Vietnam - even though he was a British citizen only.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

I was ripped off,I didn't get any thongs:curse:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Here's a good implication FOR citizenship. You get to stay here.

Because otherwise you are still going to have to apply for RRV's should you leave the country and be at the mercy of any immigration law changes in future years.

If its someone's intention to stay here and getting Australian Citizenship does not interfere with the original citizenship (some country's require you give up citizenship of the first country and cannot hold dual nationality), I personally think you would be mad not to.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

We fly out to OZ 25 th May does this mean we can,t leave OZ till we have OZ passport? sorry but how long do you have to be in OZ to get qualify for OZ passport we have PR visa Thanks in Advance

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

You will have to meet the residence requirements for citizenship and become a citizen before you can think about getting an Oz passport. The requirement will depend on when your PR visa was granted...basically if 1st July 2007 or after you will need 4 years of residence, otherwise 2 years.

So you will continue to travel on your UK passport / PR Visa until you become an Aus citizen.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Your PR Visa is usually valid for 5 years from date of issue. Have a look at it and you should see an expiry date. You can come and go on this visa until it expires. After it expires (and if you haven't got citizenship) then you need to apply for Resident Return Visas if you want to travel overseas.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Haven't read the whole thread so someone might have said this already. You don't have to travel abroad on your Australian passport. The only thing you have to do isleave and enter Australia on that passport. When you are outside the country you can use whatever passport is most convenient. Have done it many times.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

True. But that attitude is just as didactic and undemocratic.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Can I ask a quick question - As regards citizenship and the July 2007 rules is that when visa was granted or when validated - we had our visas granted in March 2007 but did not enter the country until October of that year - I understood that we had to wait four years from the date of entry

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

hi
the reason we are doing it is to protect our(and kids)future. you never know,in years to come,some lunatic may get into power and decide to throw all immigrants out!!!!!!!

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

I believe it is from the date you became PR, that is to say you actually entered the country, not from the date of issue of the visa itself.

People who became permanent residents on or after 1 July 2007 must have been lawfully resident in Australia for four years immediately before applying including:

12 months as a permanent resident and absences from Australia of no more than 12 months, including no more than three months in the 12 months before applying.

People who became permanent residents before 1 July 2007 and apply before 30 June 2010 must have been physically present in Australia as a permanent resident for a total of two years in the five years before applying, including one year in the two years before applying.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

How on earth do you work that one out :confused:

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

But this surely has no legal standing? Its a moral type thing. If you're an MP and renounce UK, then after you retire you can apply for a UK passport again? UK never requires its subjects to renounce their status and Aus cannot change UK law?

Regarding conscription, if the state of the world ever got so bad Australia signed up non military cannon fodder, chnaces are UK would too and you'd be expected to do your bit living in Aus or not. I dont see how Aus can legally demand non residents fight for them. Refusal could mean visa cancellation I guess.

Also I dont see why you couldnt leave on Aus on your UK passport, might make getting back hard though. One officer got sniffy with me coz left and returned on Aus o Aus passport but sued UK while away. Didnt like but nothing he could do about it.
And finally, voting, you should vote. Not voting undermines democracy. Not the other way

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Calm down. I'm quite happy to be allowed to vote, it's the compulsion I'm not certain about.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

It was a High Court interpretation of the Australian Constitution, in 1992.

You can formally renounce British citizenship upon application to the Home Office. There is no entitlement to get it back in these circumstances.


Prison if in Australia, a ban on re-entry if outside.

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Aus is not changing UK law. Aus is saying that if you want to be an Federal MP (of Australia) then you should (or at least try to) renounce your other citizenship(s). This in no way changes the law of the UK nor does it change the law of Germany, or any other country.

The "moral type thing" is interesting. The Australian Constitution was originally a legal document of the British Parliament. Its section 44 states that a foreign subject or citizen could not hold federal office. It was confirmed by the High Court in the 90s that Britain was a foreign power (in relation to Australia) which seems reasonable.

So which country gets the blame for the moral type thing? ;):D

Re: Implications of taking citizenship
 

Sorry, I was being silly, while making a serious point.

A democratic society is one where people have a choice, and I believe that should include the choice to vote or not. Having a government say you must vote has autocratic undertones that are more reminiscent of governments that don't allow people to vote at all.

(And to say you can always deliberately spoil your vote is to tell someone how to vote.)