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Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

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Old Mar 12th 2005, 11:56 am
  #1  
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Default Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Hi Everybody,
This is my first post ,i have been reading these forums for a while but never really had anything to say till now.
After a couple of years of going through the process we (me and the missus) obtained our PR visas last August.
Great!!.... using the agents WorkPermit.com based in london.(Great firm if a little pricey just over 2K but they done everything and were extremely helpful).
So with the visa in hand we finally decided we will give Australia a go, as it was then a pipe dream (an expensive one setting up) and even though we spent a couple of years going through the process it just didnt really sort of sink in what we were doing until we had the visa in our hand.
So we put the house on the market in Aug last year and luckily we got an offer in by the end of sept.
So it was looking good had an offer on the house and could be in aus by mid Nov.
Dunno where we were going to settle in Australia we kept changing our minds nearly everyweek...Perth it was.. then we would see a TV programme on Melborune then its there we would want to go ...etc etc it was getting really silly at one stage.
I wasnt bothered to be honest where we would end up along as it was a place we could settle with prospects.
So everyweek i would spend a hour or so looking for jobs on the net at opportunities all over australia which in my trade isnt too many indeed(I have mainly worked in the UK defense industry as a electronics test engineer).
After a few months of looking and countless emails and even staying up late a few nights phoning and talking to agencies i was coming to these conclusions.
That i might have to rethink what job i was going to do in australia as electronic test jobs seemed to be very few and far between.(or it was just a lull in the industry which does even happen in the uk during certain times of the year)
That aussie companies generally dont take you seriously until you are actually out there and you have to really consider where you will want to settle if you have a specialised trade as work oppertunities might be thin on the ground in your choosen trade in that area.
Out of the blue i actually got a email reply from a company in Brisbane i sent months before and they wanted to arrange a telephone chat one morning that week,of course i agreed and after a lengthy telephone call i was offered a job there and then subject to references.
I couldnt believe it i got a job in my trade in Brisbane of all places and i even found out during the interview that there was a small and fastly expanding electronics industry in Brisbane, so it just sounded better and better.
I accepted the job offer and explained we hoped to be out in Australia by dec and the company would even hold off on the start date until the new year so i would have a few weeks to settle in and have a look at this place.
Everything was fitting into place and as we got to exchanging the contracts..BANG.. the buyers pulled out on the day we were to exchange on the lamest of excuses.
Gutted was a understatement and we went back on the market back in the end of oct and i phoned up the company and then i heard that they needed a guy then so would have to reoffer the role as i couldnt give a day i could get out there...WHAMMO....I was even more gutted but i could understand it from their point of view.
Our dreams up in flames and back to square one..oh well you live and learn...
Within two weeks we got another offer for the house and couldnt believe it and after last time we asked and were assured that these buyers were 100% and not timewasters like last time.
Things were looking better as we could speed up the sale this time as we could use the previous landsearch and alot of the details, issues had already been covered with the solictor before so we were looking at moving out by the end of dec and out to australia by early/mid jan which would of been cutting it fine as we had to validate the PR visa by the 19th jan.
I emailed the company in Brisbane to let them know i what was happening on the offchance basically i thought just get the house sold and we see what turns ups on the job front.
Luckily the guy in the company seems to have felt for me and i was offered another position, same role,pay as he had a chat with his MD and brought forward taking on another guy by a few months.
I couldnt believe it all was back on track as if nothing had ever happened ..just a bad memory until i find out these second buyers have lied about their previous ccjs and defaults to their lender and was cleared in pricible and basic credit checks but when assessed for the final morgage offer they were refused and the estate agent was talking about their broker involved in pasport fraud im like... WTF!!! you said you checked them out!!! head in hands..
So back to square one we thought plans in ruins again but the aussie company was really understanding and said dont worry the positions open for you.
We still had the problem of validating the visa before the 19th jan so we decided to go to Brisbane in Dec for this and to have a look around to make sure we were doing the right thing.
So thats what we did and spent a week or so in Brisbane in dec and spent a week down in surfers and checked out bali for xmass (bali was brillant and so cheap!!)
We loved the Southbank and Brisbane as a whole and compared to Luton in the UK it is the land of milk and honey!!
I went in to see the company based in 8 mile plains and liked the set up and conditions.
As for surfers i really like the place and how friendly the people were and the wife really enjoyed the numerious seafood platters there.
So we came back to the UK in early jan even more determined to get out there.
We got another offer (i realise reading other threads people having trouble selling there houses but we only got a little 2 bed semi around 120k so just in the range of first time buyers and rent-to-let peeps so i realise we are lucky getting offers)from a couple in their late teens and i was yeah right after whats happened, but...YESSS... the sale of the house has gone through like a dream with us moving out yesterday ..start (accepting offer ) to finish( moving out) in 5 weeks i still cant believe its happened so quick when there isnt any hold ups.
So on monday im booking a flight on the 17th hopefully and gonna stay in singapore for a couple of nights and get to Brisbane on the following monday morning knowing finally we did it.
It was the most emotionally draining process i ever been through but whether its worth it i properly find out in the next 12 months..wont i ? lol
So now its where are we going to rent and more importantly what car am i going to get myself.. i seen a few holdens i like the look of the berlina or a sporty comm even the ford falcon,fairmont looks nice..or for the same price a rangerover with 120ks on it or a disco with 70k.
Its all so exciting and with me starting the job on the 11th april i cant wait to get into my new life down under..
With all the setbacks we had and low points ..believe me after the second time the house sale fell through we nearly gave up and the stress you put yourself under you have to just remind yourself why your doing this and have faith and most of all patience..
I hope this little story of our trials will help show no matter how things seem to go pear-shaped just keep plugging away and you might be suprised how quickly things turn about.

Regards
to you all

Ibbertson and the Missus
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Old Mar 12th 2005, 12:11 pm
  #2  
 
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Phew!! what can i say -Goodluck!!

Oh & welcome to the forum !!

Donna.
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Old Mar 12th 2005, 12:14 pm
  #3  
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Great post Ibby.

As you know from reading the forum a lot of people have ups and downs during the long process but it makes you more determined to succeed eh ?

Good luck to you and yours
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Old Mar 12th 2005, 12:21 pm
  #4  
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Great story Ibbertson and the Missus

You had a few scary moments along the rollercoaster ride but you've made it

This is when it really gets :scared: ...but worth all the effort I'm sure.

Good luck
 
Old Mar 12th 2005, 12:39 pm
  #5  
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Originally Posted by Ibbertson
Hi Everybody,
This is my first post ,i have been reading these forums for a while but never really had anything to say till now.
After a couple of years of going through the process we (me and the missus) obtained our PR visas last August.
Great!!.... using the agents WorkPermit.com based in london.(Great firm if a little pricey just over 2K but they done everything and were extremely helpful).
So with the visa in hand we finally decided we will give Australia a go, as it was then a pipe dream (an expensive one setting up) and even though we spent a couple of years going through the process it just didnt really sort of sink in what we were doing until we had the visa in our hand.
So we put the house on the market in Aug last year and luckily we got an offer in by the end of sept.
So it was looking good had an offer on the house and could be in aus by mid Nov.
Dunno where we were going to settle in Australia we kept changing our minds nearly everyweek...Perth it was.. then we would see a TV programme on Melborune then its there we would want to go ...etc etc it was getting really silly at one stage.
I wasnt bothered to be honest where we would end up along as it was a place we could settle with prospects.
So everyweek i would spend a hour or so looking for jobs on the net at opportunities all over australia which in my trade isnt too many indeed(I have mainly worked in the UK defense industry as a electronics test engineer).
After a few months of looking and countless emails and even staying up late a few nights phoning and talking to agencies i was coming to these conclusions.
That i might have to rethink what job i was going to do in australia as electronic test jobs seemed to be very few and far between.(or it was just a lull in the industry which does even happen in the uk during certain times of the year)
That aussie companies generally dont take you seriously until you are actually out there and you have to really consider where you will want to settle if you have a specialised trade as work oppertunities might be thin on the ground in your choosen trade in that area.
Out of the blue i actually got a email reply from a company in Brisbane i sent months before and they wanted to arrange a telephone chat one morning that week,of course i agreed and after a lengthy telephone call i was offered a job there and then subject to references.
I couldnt believe it i got a job in my trade in Brisbane of all places and i even found out during the interview that there was a small and fastly expanding electronics industry in Brisbane, so it just sounded better and better.
I accepted the job offer and explained we hoped to be out in Australia by dec and the company would even hold off on the start date until the new year so i would have a few weeks to settle in and have a look at this place.
Everything was fitting into place and as we got to exchanging the contracts..BANG.. the buyers pulled out on the day we were to exchange on the lamest of excuses.
Gutted was a understatement and we went back on the market back in the end of oct and i phoned up the company and then i heard that they needed a guy then so would have to reoffer the role as i couldnt give a day i could get out there...WHAMMO....I was even more gutted but i could understand it from their point of view.
Our dreams up in flames and back to square one..oh well you live and learn...
Within two weeks we got another offer for the house and couldnt believe it and after last time we asked and were assured that these buyers were 100% and not timewasters like last time.
Things were looking better as we could speed up the sale this time as we could use the previous landsearch and alot of the details, issues had already been covered with the solictor before so we were looking at moving out by the end of dec and out to australia by early/mid jan which would of been cutting it fine as we had to validate the PR visa by the 19th jan.
I emailed the company in Brisbane to let them know i what was happening on the offchance basically i thought just get the house sold and we see what turns ups on the job front.
Luckily the guy in the company seems to have felt for me and i was offered another position, same role,pay as he had a chat with his MD and brought forward taking on another guy by a few months.
I couldnt believe it all was back on track as if nothing had ever happened ..just a bad memory until i find out these second buyers have lied about their previous ccjs and defaults to their lender and was cleared in pricible and basic credit checks but when assessed for the final morgage offer they were refused and the estate agent was talking about their broker involved in pasport fraud im like... WTF!!! you said you checked them out!!! head in hands..
So back to square one we thought plans in ruins again but the aussie company was really understanding and said dont worry the positions open for you.
We still had the problem of validating the visa before the 19th jan so we decided to go to Brisbane in Dec for this and to have a look around to make sure we were doing the right thing.
So thats what we did and spent a week or so in Brisbane in dec and spent a week down in surfers and checked out bali for xmass (bali was brillant and so cheap!!)
We loved the Southbank and Brisbane as a whole and compared to Luton in the UK it is the land of milk and honey!!
I went in to see the company based in 8 mile plains and liked the set up and conditions.
As for surfers i really like the place and how friendly the people were and the wife really enjoyed the numerious seafood platters there.
So we came back to the UK in early jan even more determined to get out there.
We got another offer (i realise reading other threads people having trouble selling there houses but we only got a little 2 bed semi around 120k so just in the range of first time buyers and rent-to-let peeps so i realise we are lucky getting offers)from a couple in their late teens and i was yeah right after whats happened, but...YESSS... the sale of the house has gone through like a dream with us moving out yesterday ..start (accepting offer ) to finish( moving out) in 5 weeks i still cant believe its happened so quick when there isnt any hold ups.
So on monday im booking a flight on the 17th hopefully and gonna stay in singapore for a couple of nights and get to Brisbane on the following monday morning knowing finally we did it.
It was the most emotionally draining process i ever been through but whether its worth it i properly find out in the next 12 months..wont i ? lol
So now its where are we going to rent and more importantly what car am i going to get myself.. i seen a few holdens i like the look of the berlina or a sporty comm even the ford falcon,fairmont looks nice..or for the same price a rangerover with 120ks on it or a disco with 70k.
Its all so exciting and with me starting the job on the 11th april i cant wait to get into my new life down under..
With all the setbacks we had and low points ..believe me after the second time the house sale fell through we nearly gave up and the stress you put yourself under you have to just remind yourself why your doing this and have faith and most of all patience..
I hope this little story of our trials will help show no matter how things seem to go pear-shaped just keep plugging away and you might be suprised how quickly things turn about.

Regards
to you all

Ibbertson and the Missus
Phew what a journey - mine is gentle stroll in comparisson !
Good luck.
Gillian
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Old Mar 12th 2005, 12:58 pm
  #6  
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Originally Posted by Ibbertson
Hi Everybody,
:
:
Regards
to you all

Ibbertson and the Missus
I'm stressed out just having read it.

Good luck in Brissie,

Cheers,
JTL
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Old Mar 12th 2005, 2:14 pm
  #7  
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Originally Posted by Ibbertson
Hi Everybody,
This is my first post ,i have been reading these forums for a while but never really had anything to say till now.
After a couple of years of going through the process we (me and the missus) obtained our PR visas last August.
Great!!.... using the agents WorkPermit.com based in london.(Great firm if a little pricey just over 2K but they done everything and were extremely helpful).
So with the visa in hand we finally decided we will give Australia a go, as it was then a pipe dream (an expensive one setting up) and even though we spent a couple of years going through the process it just didnt really sort of sink in what we were doing until we had the visa in our hand.
So we put the house on the market in Aug last year and luckily we got an offer in by the end of sept.
So it was looking good had an offer on the house and could be in aus by mid Nov.
Dunno where we were going to settle in Australia we kept changing our minds nearly everyweek...Perth it was.. then we would see a TV programme on Melborune then its there we would want to go ...etc etc it was getting really silly at one stage.
I wasnt bothered to be honest where we would end up along as it was a place we could settle with prospects.
So everyweek i would spend a hour or so looking for jobs on the net at opportunities all over australia which in my trade isnt too many indeed(I have mainly worked in the UK defense industry as a electronics test engineer).
After a few months of looking and countless emails and even staying up late a few nights phoning and talking to agencies i was coming to these conclusions.
That i might have to rethink what job i was going to do in australia as electronic test jobs seemed to be very few and far between.(or it was just a lull in the industry which does even happen in the uk during certain times of the year)
That aussie companies generally dont take you seriously until you are actually out there and you have to really consider where you will want to settle if you have a specialised trade as work oppertunities might be thin on the ground in your choosen trade in that area.
Out of the blue i actually got a email reply from a company in Brisbane i sent months before and they wanted to arrange a telephone chat one morning that week,of course i agreed and after a lengthy telephone call i was offered a job there and then subject to references.
I couldnt believe it i got a job in my trade in Brisbane of all places and i even found out during the interview that there was a small and fastly expanding electronics industry in Brisbane, so it just sounded better and better.
I accepted the job offer and explained we hoped to be out in Australia by dec and the company would even hold off on the start date until the new year so i would have a few weeks to settle in and have a look at this place.
Everything was fitting into place and as we got to exchanging the contracts..BANG.. the buyers pulled out on the day we were to exchange on the lamest of excuses.
Gutted was a understatement and we went back on the market back in the end of oct and i phoned up the company and then i heard that they needed a guy then so would have to reoffer the role as i couldnt give a day i could get out there...WHAMMO....I was even more gutted but i could understand it from their point of view.
Our dreams up in flames and back to square one..oh well you live and learn...
Within two weeks we got another offer for the house and couldnt believe it and after last time we asked and were assured that these buyers were 100% and not timewasters like last time.
Things were looking better as we could speed up the sale this time as we could use the previous landsearch and alot of the details, issues had already been covered with the solictor before so we were looking at moving out by the end of dec and out to australia by early/mid jan which would of been cutting it fine as we had to validate the PR visa by the 19th jan.
I emailed the company in Brisbane to let them know i what was happening on the offchance basically i thought just get the house sold and we see what turns ups on the job front.
Luckily the guy in the company seems to have felt for me and i was offered another position, same role,pay as he had a chat with his MD and brought forward taking on another guy by a few months.
I couldnt believe it all was back on track as if nothing had ever happened ..just a bad memory until i find out these second buyers have lied about their previous ccjs and defaults to their lender and was cleared in pricible and basic credit checks but when assessed for the final morgage offer they were refused and the estate agent was talking about their broker involved in pasport fraud im like... WTF!!! you said you checked them out!!! head in hands..
So back to square one we thought plans in ruins again but the aussie company was really understanding and said dont worry the positions open for you.
We still had the problem of validating the visa before the 19th jan so we decided to go to Brisbane in Dec for this and to have a look around to make sure we were doing the right thing.
So thats what we did and spent a week or so in Brisbane in dec and spent a week down in surfers and checked out bali for xmass (bali was brillant and so cheap!!)
We loved the Southbank and Brisbane as a whole and compared to Luton in the UK it is the land of milk and honey!!
I went in to see the company based in 8 mile plains and liked the set up and conditions.
As for surfers i really like the place and how friendly the people were and the wife really enjoyed the numerious seafood platters there.
So we came back to the UK in early jan even more determined to get out there.
We got another offer (i realise reading other threads people having trouble selling there houses but we only got a little 2 bed semi around 120k so just in the range of first time buyers and rent-to-let peeps so i realise we are lucky getting offers)from a couple in their late teens and i was yeah right after whats happened, but...YESSS... the sale of the house has gone through like a dream with us moving out yesterday ..start (accepting offer ) to finish( moving out) in 5 weeks i still cant believe its happened so quick when there isnt any hold ups.
So on monday im booking a flight on the 17th hopefully and gonna stay in singapore for a couple of nights and get to Brisbane on the following monday morning knowing finally we did it.
It was the most emotionally draining process i ever been through but whether its worth it i properly find out in the next 12 months..wont i ? lol
So now its where are we going to rent and more importantly what car am i going to get myself.. i seen a few holdens i like the look of the berlina or a sporty comm even the ford falcon,fairmont looks nice..or for the same price a rangerover with 120ks on it or a disco with 70k.
Its all so exciting and with me starting the job on the 11th april i cant wait to get into my new life down under..
With all the setbacks we had and low points ..believe me after the second time the house sale fell through we nearly gave up and the stress you put yourself under you have to just remind yourself why your doing this and have faith and most of all patience..
I hope this little story of our trials will help show no matter how things seem to go pear-shaped just keep plugging away and you might be suprised how quickly things turn about.

Regards
to you all

Ibbertson and the Missus

And now the stressful bit starts .... !!!!
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Old Mar 12th 2005, 2:28 pm
  #8  
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Phew, was that a long story you had to tell?! Well done for hanging in there through thick and thin. It's true what they say, if at first you don't succeed, try, try and try again. You got there in the end, that's the main thing.

Congratulations and hope everything works out well for you the other side.

Binbird
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Old Mar 12th 2005, 2:44 pm
  #9  
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Well done ! Please keep us informed of your journey and new life in Qld.

Blossom
 
Old Mar 12th 2005, 2:47 pm
  #10  
 
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Default Re: Epic:- BANG..WHAMMO..WTF..YESSS..

Originally Posted by Ibbertson
Hi Everybody,
This is my first post ,i have been reading these forums for a while but never really had anything to say till now.
After a couple of years of going through the process we (me and the missus) obtained our PR visas last August.
Great!!.... using the agents WorkPermit.com based in london.(Great firm if a little pricey just over 2K but they done everything and were extremely helpful).
So with the visa in hand we finally decided we will give Australia a go, as it was then a pipe dream (an expensive one setting up) and even though we spent a couple of years going through the process it just didnt really sort of sink in what we were doing until we had the visa in our hand.
So we put the house on the market in Aug last year and luckily we got an offer in by the end of sept.
So it was looking good had an offer on the house and could be in aus by mid Nov.
Dunno where we were going to settle in Australia we kept changing our minds nearly everyweek...Perth it was.. then we would see a TV programme on Melborune then its there we would want to go ...etc etc it was getting really silly at one stage.
I wasnt bothered to be honest where we would end up along as it was a place we could settle with prospects.
So everyweek i would spend a hour or so looking for jobs on the net at opportunities all over australia which in my trade isnt too many indeed(I have mainly worked in the UK defense industry as a electronics test engineer).
After a few months of looking and countless emails and even staying up late a few nights phoning and talking to agencies i was coming to these conclusions.
That i might have to rethink what job i was going to do in australia as electronic test jobs seemed to be very few and far between.(or it was just a lull in the industry which does even happen in the uk during certain times of the year)
That aussie companies generally dont take you seriously until you are actually out there and you have to really consider where you will want to settle if you have a specialised trade as work oppertunities might be thin on the ground in your choosen trade in that area.
Out of the blue i actually got a email reply from a company in Brisbane i sent months before and they wanted to arrange a telephone chat one morning that week,of course i agreed and after a lengthy telephone call i was offered a job there and then subject to references.
I couldnt believe it i got a job in my trade in Brisbane of all places and i even found out during the interview that there was a small and fastly expanding electronics industry in Brisbane, so it just sounded better and better.
I accepted the job offer and explained we hoped to be out in Australia by dec and the company would even hold off on the start date until the new year so i would have a few weeks to settle in and have a look at this place.
Everything was fitting into place and as we got to exchanging the contracts..BANG.. the buyers pulled out on the day we were to exchange on the lamest of excuses.
Gutted was a understatement and we went back on the market back in the end of oct and i phoned up the company and then i heard that they needed a guy then so would have to reoffer the role as i couldnt give a day i could get out there...WHAMMO....I was even more gutted but i could understand it from their point of view.
Our dreams up in flames and back to square one..oh well you live and learn...
Within two weeks we got another offer for the house and couldnt believe it and after last time we asked and were assured that these buyers were 100% and not timewasters like last time.
Things were looking better as we could speed up the sale this time as we could use the previous landsearch and alot of the details, issues had already been covered with the solictor before so we were looking at moving out by the end of dec and out to australia by early/mid jan which would of been cutting it fine as we had to validate the PR visa by the 19th jan.
I emailed the company in Brisbane to let them know i what was happening on the offchance basically i thought just get the house sold and we see what turns ups on the job front.
Luckily the guy in the company seems to have felt for me and i was offered another position, same role,pay as he had a chat with his MD and brought forward taking on another guy by a few months.
I couldnt believe it all was back on track as if nothing had ever happened ..just a bad memory until i find out these second buyers have lied about their previous ccjs and defaults to their lender and was cleared in pricible and basic credit checks but when assessed for the final morgage offer they were refused and the estate agent was talking about their broker involved in pasport fraud im like... WTF!!! you said you checked them out!!! head in hands..
So back to square one we thought plans in ruins again but the aussie company was really understanding and said dont worry the positions open for you.
We still had the problem of validating the visa before the 19th jan so we decided to go to Brisbane in Dec for this and to have a look around to make sure we were doing the right thing.
So thats what we did and spent a week or so in Brisbane in dec and spent a week down in surfers and checked out bali for xmass (bali was brillant and so cheap!!)
We loved the Southbank and Brisbane as a whole and compared to Luton in the UK it is the land of milk and honey!!
I went in to see the company based in 8 mile plains and liked the set up and conditions.
As for surfers i really like the place and how friendly the people were and the wife really enjoyed the numerious seafood platters there.
So we came back to the UK in early jan even more determined to get out there.
We got another offer (i realise reading other threads people having trouble selling there houses but we only got a little 2 bed semi around 120k so just in the range of first time buyers and rent-to-let peeps so i realise we are lucky getting offers)from a couple in their late teens and i was yeah right after whats happened, but...YESSS... the sale of the house has gone through like a dream with us moving out yesterday ..start (accepting offer ) to finish( moving out) in 5 weeks i still cant believe its happened so quick when there isnt any hold ups.
So on monday im booking a flight on the 17th hopefully and gonna stay in singapore for a couple of nights and get to Brisbane on the following monday morning knowing finally we did it.
It was the most emotionally draining process i ever been through but whether its worth it i properly find out in the next 12 months..wont i ? lol
So now its where are we going to rent and more importantly what car am i going to get myself.. i seen a few holdens i like the look of the berlina or a sporty comm even the ford falcon,fairmont looks nice..or for the same price a rangerover with 120ks on it or a disco with 70k.
Its all so exciting and with me starting the job on the 11th april i cant wait to get into my new life down under..
With all the setbacks we had and low points ..believe me after the second time the house sale fell through we nearly gave up and the stress you put yourself under you have to just remind yourself why your doing this and have faith and most of all patience..
I hope this little story of our trials will help show no matter how things seem to go pear-shaped just keep plugging away and you might be suprised how quickly things turn about.

Regards
to you all

Ibbertson and the Missus
Welcome to BE

Considering this is your first post....what a good'un it is.....thanks for sharing it with us.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Dimo8
DIMO8 is offline  

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