Originally Posted by sonlymewalter

Firstly, Australia accepts only recognised certified skills for someone to obtain a skilled visa. What the OP is stating is that once you get here, those skills and experience are not worth a jot. This is particularly difficult the more skilled you are.

Secondly, I'm not sure if you're a female but if you are, then forget about a career. Your experience, qualifications and ability will make you stand out like a sore thumb which will only serve to irritate, especially if your boss is a male.

Australia is a superb place to live but don't under estimate the crap work ethics. Go back to 1980's UK to understand how it will be out here. Management skills are extremely poor which is why Aus requires skilled workers, because they can't increase GDP themselves. Rather than addressing the cause they bring in skilled workers who all fight for the same jobs who then don't find decent work or decent pay. Basically skilled people doing unskilled work for a pittance. Sounds like a really good economic strategy, especially since skilled migrants tend to bring in money too

Originally Posted by steve`o

vash most of the time you talk sense, albeit biast towards aus for that i can well understand your an aussie and your standing up for your self and your county ( that must be applauded and i am sincere when i say that )


however you stance that

"Certification and qualification mean everything these days. Sure, you can claim to have decades of experience, but that's still only a claim until you actually prove it."

this statement doesnt seem to hold water over here as even after youve prooved it they still wont employ you without further costly and time consuming training

for example and this is quite long so go and get a cup of tea and a biscuit
( i`m using a sparkie as thats what i am )
i`m mid 40`s full apprentisship 20 odd years in the trade, jib registered and in the uk i ran a NIC qualified company,

in order to emmigrate you need to gain a tra
http://www.workplace.gov.au/workplac...oAustralia.htm
trade recognision australia - for this you need to send off all your certifactes proove your training proove that youve worked in the trade and for whom, it can months tracking down course details employer references etc and finally when its all sent and you get that postive result from the tra and your on to the visa application you think wow that was a real close scutainy of what ive done and yes i thought that was a positive as i wouldnt want any one walking into my country that wasnt fully qualified iether,

so you get your visa and you move down under

all electricans in aus need licenceing ( again i think this is a good idea as it stops bullshitters / pretenders from working )

off to the local electrical safety office

i`m from the uk heres my tra, cpr cert can i have a licence please

no you need an artc
australian recognised trade certificate
http://www.workplace.gov.au/workplac...nresidents.htm
wtf ?? the tra document is only for migration yes it prooves your a tradie but only for migration purposes you need an artc to gain a licence

and your cpr cert isnt valid as it was gained in the uk we will only recognise an australian one, wtf do austrailian hearts beat differently ??
( they didnt like that - no senes of humour )


where does one get an artc, mmm from the tra
yes the same form (identical in fact with a different number at the top )
so you dig all your tra stuff out again send it all off to the tra`s artc dept and they issue an artc in about a month

back to the electrical safety office
with your artc and an aussie cpr cert

yes youve prooved that your qualified heres a permit to train
wtf again ??
you need to do an australian wiring and testing course in the mean time we will let you work under the supervsion of an australian qualified electrican untill youve completed the course at tafe

now your problems really start

can you get a job as a sparkie with a permit to train
can you foook
sorry we cannot afford to have some one hold your hand untill your qualified
we can take you on as a ta ( trades assistant / sparkies mate )
the problem with this it that as a ta you aren`t doing the relevant work that goes towards your tafe corse ( tafe = college/tech )
the local tafes only run one corse a year starting in feb and ending in aug so if you arrive in say june your foooked and have to wait untill the next year

and whats so laughable about all this is that the aussie wiring and testing rules AS 3000 which they are so so keen on getting you to study is more or less a direct copy of the BS7671 aka the uk wiring rules

since doing all of the above to gain an electrical licence ive gone back
and done another course to gain a contractors licence i`ll not bore you with whats needed as it was just as daft as the first

another example of australian licencing

an austrlian sparkie mid 50`s only ever worked in aus, done sparking all his life let his contactors licence lasp as he was working for the local electricity supplier and didnt need it, he decides that he would like to get back into contracting approaches the electrical safey office and he`s refused
he is made to go back to tafe and do the whole of the contractors course again ( feb to aug ) just to get back a licence that he`d previosley had for over twenty years




what a load of b*llocks no wonder qualified people such as plumbers sparkies ect are mowing lawns and working in bunnings the red tape etc associated with working in a trade has gone completely mad

come on where is the sense in all this ???
cause i can`t see any


rant over move along theres nothing to see




regards steve



so does austalia need skilled workers ??
yes they do
but they make so hard to work that many give up and do something else

Originally Posted by steve`o

vash most of the time you talk sense, albeit biast towards aus for that i can well understand your an aussie and your standing up for your self and your county ( that must be applauded and i am sincere when i say that )


however you stance that

"Certification and qualification mean everything these days. Sure, you can claim to have decades of experience, but that's still only a claim until you actually prove it."

this statement doesnt seem to hold water over here as even after youve prooved it they still wont employ you without further costly and time consuming training

for example and this is quite long so go and get a cup of tea and a biscuit
( i`m using a sparkie as thats what i am )
i`m mid 40`s full apprentisship 20 odd years in the trade, jib registered and in the uk i ran a NIC qualified company,

in order to emmigrate you need to gain a tra
http://www.workplace.gov.au/workplac...oAustralia.htm
trade recognision australia - for this you need to send off all your certifactes proove your training proove that youve worked in the trade and for whom, it can months tracking down course details employer references etc and finally when its all sent and you get that postive result from the tra and your on to the visa application you think wow that was a real close scutainy of what ive done and yes i thought that was a positive as i wouldnt want any one walking into my country that wasnt fully qualified iether,

so you get your visa and you move down under

all electricans in aus need licenceing ( again i think this is a good idea as it stops bullshitters / pretenders from working )

off to the local electrical safety office

i`m from the uk heres my tra, cpr cert can i have a licence please

no you need an artc
australian recognised trade certificate
http://www.workplace.gov.au/workplac...nresidents.htm
wtf ?? the tra document is only for migration yes it prooves your a tradie but only for migration purposes you need an artc to gain a licence

and your cpr cert isnt valid as it was gained in the uk we will only recognise an australian one, wtf do austrailian hearts beat differently ??
( they didnt like that - no senes of humour )


where does one get an artc, mmm from the tra
yes the same form (identical in fact with a different number at the top )
so you dig all your tra stuff out again send it all off to the tra`s artc dept and they issue an artc in about a month

back to the electrical safety office
with your artc and an aussie cpr cert

yes youve prooved that your qualified heres a permit to train
wtf again ??
you need to do an australian wiring and testing course in the mean time we will let you work under the supervsion of an australian qualified electrican untill youve completed the course at tafe

now your problems really start

can you get a job as a sparkie with a permit to train
can you foook
sorry we cannot afford to have some one hold your hand untill your qualified
we can take you on as a ta ( trades assistant / sparkies mate )
the problem with this it that as a ta you aren`t doing the relevant work that goes towards your tafe corse ( tafe = college/tech )
the local tafes only run one corse a year starting in feb and ending in aug so if you arrive in say june your foooked and have to wait untill the next year

and whats so laughable about all this is that the aussie wiring and testing rules AS 3000 which they are so so keen on getting you to study is more or less a direct copy of the BS7671 aka the uk wiring rules

since doing all of the above to gain an electrical licence ive gone back
and done another course to gain a contractors licence i`ll not bore you with whats needed as it was just as daft as the first

another example of australian licencing

an austrlian sparkie mid 50`s only ever worked in aus, done sparking all his life let his contactors licence lasp as he was working for the local electricity supplier and didnt need it, he decides that he would like to get back into contracting approaches the electrical safey office and he`s refused
he is made to go back to tafe and do the whole of the contractors course again ( feb to aug ) just to get back a licence that he`d previosley had for over twenty years




what a load of b*llocks no wonder qualified people such as plumbers sparkies ect are mowing lawns and working in bunnings the red tape etc associated with working in a trade has gone completely mad

come on where is the sense in all this ???
cause i can`t see any


rant over move along theres nothing to see




regards steve



so does austalia need skilled workers ??
yes they do
but they make so hard to work that many give up and do something else

Originally Posted by steve`o

the other thing i cannot understand is once you have your licence thats it
theres no one / body / gov dept that checks that the works to a standard
the only time the local electrical safety office get invloved is iether when theres an accident ( too late ) or a complaint made by a customer

in the uk all electrical companies are iether in the nic or eca ( governing bodies ) and the works regularly checked and if its substandard you can loose your accreditaion which means your out of work
over here they disbanded the electrical inspectors on the insistance of the unions some twenty years back and well sorry to say it but at times it seems that anything goes

Originally Posted by The_Pom_From_Aus

steve`o

well said mate i could not have put it better myself, thats the best post on here ive ever seen, again Steve well done mate you deserve a beer or 20.
Can some Pommie buy Stev'o a beer please

Atrhur

Originally Posted by ozoz

I like this thread, liciencing is a good idea the problem is you have a lot of politicians and middle men, unions etc trying to make easy money.Example of a sparky

i.e

500 dollars tra
300 dollars artc
500 dollars college regs etc
400 dollars licience every year not including transfer fee
this doesnt include all the other bullshit liciences you have to pay or go on courses for which you dont need liciences for such as data, plc, high voltage
to name a few

if you want to setup on your own

500 - 1000 dollars buisness course
500 dollars contractors licience course
Plus all your insurances etc
let me know if ive missed anything

skill shortage my arse

Originally Posted by NikiL

Its the qualifications not being local that I honestly believe is the main issue (give me a few months when we've finally got out there and I may freely stand corrected)

Originally Posted by NikiL

The feedback from the Australian recruitment companies I have spoken to would indicate that it was a good move and I intend to obtain the Australian accountancy qualification after arrival.

Originally Posted by NikiL

I am female, but I don't believe I will be that disadvantaged as I work in a very male dominated environment at the moment (there are only 3 women at my level in my organisation out of 3000 employees and I worked my way up to that level)

Originally Posted by NikiL

- a lot of it is knowing how to manage your manager!

Originally Posted by NikiL

To be honest, I'll be quite happy if I keep working at the level I am now

Originally Posted by NikiL

the next step up means a total loss of work/life balance no matter where you are in the world and I don't really want that.

Originally Posted by lisas

I think Steve O has a really valid point. I am a primary school teacher and have had to go through exactly the same as him when i got here.

Originally Posted by lisas

Maybe it is a conspiracy to get migrants in here with their pots of gold to increase the economy. They are stuffed if thats the case, as we don't have to two half pennies to rub together.

Originally Posted by The_Pom_From_Aus

steve`o;

this thread seems to have opened a can of worms on here mate, we know the crap we have gone through like most other trades.
I know this, over here a number of Australian sparks would not know how to make a Pyro end of regardless of the size of the Pyro.

Then don't mention SWA they would look at you like you have come from the loony bin, then ask them to bend some Galv or black enamel conduit on a pipe bender.

I don't think many of them would pass the standards of workman ship we was taught i have seen some real shocking work here.

As for the licensing its all red tape i don't actually think they have any other suggestions on how to see if a person is a decent trades person but looking at some of the people performing work here in my eyes i would be sending these people back to Tafe to retrain its that shocking.

They have either Not been Trained correctly or they have no idea at all whats expected in the general standard of work. i would say this most UK Electricians are very good & thats down to the on site training by other sparkies in the UK also if you stuff up you get a rolocking then if you do it again you get a clout from the boss & if you continue down that path your gone (P45). thats life as we was taught.

I can say i have seen some very good Australian sparks, then on the other hand i have seen a couple of Australian electricians who have A class licenses
who are NOT able to work on a switchboard, they have the full license but have no experience at all on anything like switchboards 1 x phase or 3 x phase, so god knows how they make a do.

This is not a whinge or complaint i see this all the time so one feels for people who are finding it difficult to obtain a TRA or ARTC.

Stev'o im sorry mate im now down to 19 beers left.?????


Arthur

Originally Posted by sonlymewalter

To pass for a skilled visa you have to have qualifications recognised worldwide and in some circumstances these qualifications are more esteemed than an Aussie university equivelant. Don't count on Aussie qualification as getting you through the door any more than a UK qualification. You might find your UK experience is the blocker

Recruitment agencies want as many candidates on their books as possible as it gives them more of a chance of success if / when a job comes up. It's "alledgedly" a short supply of candidates. Recruitment agencies are no different to real estate agents, they tell you what you want to hear


I was one of 3 out of of 25,000. I also live in Aus






Sorry to dissapoint but unless you are really, really lucky, if you are at management level you will be more than likely expected to sell your soul for a fairly average salary. If you are a career woman you will generally be up against males as per the UK. the difference being the glass ceiling in UK has all but dissapeard since the 1980's. Also "mateship" or getting a job through your mate is no longer as prevelant in the UK as [in the main] you are chosen for your skill set as opposed to you knowing the right person. In Aus the government promotes women have more kids to populate the country. It's not unusual to have 3 or more kids upto 40+ and the Aus government is proud to promote the baby bonus. What kind of "message" do you think that sends out - subconsiously?

Have you worked in a senior / high powered role in UK - or Aus?



All skilled workers must pass a rigerous assessment to get a visa. That's what makes this all such a scam



Sounds like an excellent strategy. If skilled workers come to Aus and are forced to work in shitty jobs, it won't take much for the educated workforce to increase GDP whilst at the same time the uneducated managers don't have to make any real workplace improvements. Basically the educated migrants will perform unskilled workloads at half the cost than they are worth AND bring cash into the country to boot.

Excellent strategy if you think about it