Caution on visa

Old Mar 16th 2022, 6:18 pm
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Default Caution on visa

On the WHV is asks for criminal convictions, I have a caution from a few years ago and although I understand this doesn’t class as a criminal conviction everytime I seem to Google answers for a definite yes or no on mentioning this on my visa I always seem to get conflicting views! Is there anyone who has been through this and can help / give a definite on needing to disclose the caution

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Old Mar 16th 2022, 9:18 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Yes accepting to take a caution is accepting guilt but the grey area seems to be if it needs to be declared on the visa form since it’s not classed as a criminal conviction when it comes down to it
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Caution on visa

A caution will show on a criminal record check.
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 8:17 am
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Default Re: Caution on visa

I’m fully aware of this, but as it’s still not a conviction and that’s what it asks for do you put it down anyway or do you save the hassle because technically you wouldn’t be “hiding” it with them not asking for it
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Cal97 View Post
I’m fully aware of this, but as it’s still not a conviction and that’s what it asks for do you put it down anyway or do you save the hassle because technically you wouldn’t be “hiding” it with them not asking for it
A UK caution is not a conviction. Simples. If the wording asks for conviction the answer is no.

The US used to ask if you have been arrested. If the caution came after an arrest then the answer to that is Yes. It used to baffle me that the decision to arrest someone by a junior ranking cop could affect your immigration ability into the US. That's the US for you.
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 9:31 am
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
A UK caution is not a conviction. Simples. If the wording asks for conviction the answer is no.

The US used to ask if you have been arrested. If the caution came after an arrest then the answer to that is Yes. It used to baffle me that the decision to arrest someone by a junior ranking cop could affect your immigration ability into the US. That's the US for you.
Thankyou that’s what I also thought! Just a pain and want to get it right 100% I know I can’t go to America for 6 years from the first day but other countries thankfully see things differently
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 9:35 am
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Cal97 View Post
Thankyou that’s what I also thought! Just a pain and want to get it right 100% I know I can’t go to America for 6 years from the first day but other countries thankfully see things differently
Why can't you go to the US? It used to be answering yes to the arrest question triggered a visa application. And that was assessed by whoever was approving or declining the visa.

What's the exact wording in the Australian question?
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 9:42 am
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Why can't you go to the US? It used to be answering yes to the arrest question triggered a visa application. And that was assessed by whoever was approving or declining the visa.

What's the exact wording in the Australian question?

With the US I have to disclose my caution until it’s sort of not live so 6 years and with what the caution is for there’s 0% chance of them accepting And the question from the visa is “has any applicant ever been convicted of an offence in any country”
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 1:42 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Cal97 View Post
With the US I have to disclose my caution until it’s sort of not live so 6 years and with what the caution is for there’s 0% chance of them accepting And the question from the visa is “has any applicant ever been convicted of an offence in any country”
The US doesn't accept the concept of convictions being "spent" and dropping off your criminal record, so you are required to disclose them for life, irrespective of how the country where you committed the crime sees the conviction.
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 2:20 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
The US doesn't accept the concept of convictions being "spent" and dropping off your criminal record, so you are required to disclose them for life, irrespective of how the country where you committed the crime sees the conviction.
It was the police when handing the caution out who said you won’t be able to go for 6 years, they could have their wires crossed though but I always thought after 6 years you don’t have to legally disclose it, I know it’s always on the record so if they ask for that then it’ll be there but as far as having to actually disclose after 6 years is up I think it’s okay?
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 2:29 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Cal97 View Post
It was the police when handing the caution out who said you won’t be able to go for 6 years, they could have their wires crossed though but I always thought after 6 years you don’t have to legally disclose it, I know it’s always on the record so if they ask for that then it’ll be there but as far as having to actually disclose after 6 years is up I think it’s okay?
Uncle Sam is quite specific: "have you ever ....", so unless you want to argue about what "ever" means then that seems pretty clear.

What comes back to bite some people who abuse the VWP by pretending that they don't have a criminal record is when, at some point in the future they need to apply for a visa, and the criminal record document obtained has IIRC "No live trace" on it, which means that there was a record, but it's been deleted. Then the ugly questions become "what crime did you commit?" and "why didn't you disclose it when you entered on the VWP?" At that point it's a mess you need a lawyer to unravel, and try to pull your ar§e out of the fire. Committing a crime long ago can be excused, lying to USCIS has more complicated consequences!
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 2:40 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Uncle Sam is quite specific: "have you ever ....", so unless you want to argue about what "ever" means then that seems pretty clear.

What comes back to bite some people who abuse the VWP by pretending that they don't have a criminal record is when, at some point in the future they need to apply for a visa, and the criminal record document obtained has IIRC "No live trace" on it, which means that there was a record, but it's been deleted. Then the ugly questions become "what crime did you commit?" and "why didn't you disclose it when you entered on the VWP?" At that point it's a mess you need a lawyer to unravel, and try to pull your ar§e out of the fire. Committing a crime long ago can be excused, lying to USCIS has more complicated consequences!

yes true thankfully it’s not america I’m after going but this is where my original questions arises from, I don’t mind being honest at all and telling them just incase as I know future visas may ask for any dealings with the police as such! I just can’t seem to find the 100% correct answer though for it from the aus ones anywhere and peoples opinions are always 50:50 on needing to or not. I feel somewhere it should be more clear and people wouldn’t struggle finding out
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Cal97 View Post
.... peoples opinions are always 50:50 on needing to or not. I feel somewhere it should be more clear and people wouldn’t struggle finding out
OK, so to revisit my earlier, but deleted, post, and my take on it, given that I don't have a dog in the fight. A conviction is prima facie evidence that a crime was committed, and accepting a caution _in lieu_ of going to court similarly necessarily means that a crime was committed, and you acknowledged as much by accepting the caution, rather than going to court with your evidence of not having committed a crime.

Now in countries where their visa application form asks only "have you been convicted?" then I agree that a caution is in the grey area, but given only a digital choice between "conviction" and "not a conviction" then I would argue that the caution is evidence of a crime and is therefore better categorized with "conviction".
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Cal97 View Post
And the question from the visa is “has any applicant ever been convicted of an offence in any country”
And that's the wording you run by. You have not been convicted of an offence. You accepted a caution, so what, that's not a conviction and you are answering the question correctly by answering no.

Let's flip this around and say you answered yes. You are lying on your immigration document as you have never been convicted of an offence.

Stick to answering the question accurately. The correct answer is No.
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Old Mar 17th 2022, 11:17 pm
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Default Re: Caution on visa

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
The US doesn't accept the concept of convictions being "spent" and dropping off your criminal record, so you are required to disclose them for life, irrespective of how the country where you committed the crime sees the conviction.
Likewise, Australia does not accept the concept of "spent" when it comes to immigration. All offences should be declared, nothing is ever spent.

OP if you want a professional answer, contact a migration agent and be prepared t pay for their advice. George Lombard is experienced in the field of character background checks, and I highly recommend him.
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