Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

People need time to think about the ramifications of ndaltonb's proposal. But we (tend to) vote first, then think and read the other posters' comments later. Any deciding vote on dalton's proposal should be a new poll after the close of comments on this thread, as the results might be quite different to what we see now.

For me, it comes down to:

let's adopt the new arrangements/ censorship/ bureaucracy/ clumsiness/ lack of vitality that is proposed

vs

certain poster(s) is/are irritating - but I now know it is simple to screen them out (see Paul's post on the thread).

Cheers - Don

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

i agree with pleasence post.
i agreed to moderation when i voted at the start of this thread. but being the indesisive type that i am i now think i wish i had gone the other way, oh see now im confusing myself.
ok here we go, yes i agree with moderating spam, racism. and swearwords directed at individuals.
no i dont agree with deciding on a title for thread, or in moderators opinion moderating, there must be some very strict guidlines of things that would be moderated and how.
so i guess what im saying is, unless its abusive leave it alone its a very good forum at the moment, and major changes as proposed could be for the worse in the long run.
sorry to change my mind prehaps i should have done this later in the day shaun and lor

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don and Shaun/lor

I sort of sypathise but with the votes at the moment 60:40 I'd have real difficulty setting this going again. I can't really put the question up again because people want to change their minds. Everyone was told the vote would stay open to End Sept.

At the beginning of next month, I'll look at the vote re moderating and all the comments and then put a new charter forward for approval, however the question re moderating will have to be based on result of this vote. How to be moderated will be decided later.

Hope this helps

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Shaun/Lor,

Trying to understand, whats the problem in adding a subject heading to a thread. This topic comes up every couple of months and the earlier proposal seemed a good way of helping out.

I can only see advantages in saying a thread is about "Living in Aus" or "Off Topic". Where are the disadvantages? Just to say again, really trying to understand here. The thread will still have a made up title, just adding a category to it.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

the problem with adding a subject heading to a thread...
is that very often the subject on many threads end up very different to when the thread was started, so therefore alot of threads will not be read.
just my opinion and im sure it wouldnt effect me too much as i read most threads anyway, im just airing my thoughts your way. cheers shaun

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Shaun,

No worries. I'm desperate for people thoughts on this matter.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

With respect Nigel, I don't understand why you would have any difficulty at all asking for a 'definitive' vote. You said, in effect, 'people may read the posts, get better informed and change their minds about the level of moderation they would like - but I can't be bothered about people who change their minds'. What does a few more days matter?

This poll has 53 votes so far (20.00 CET). 'Vote for Brisbane Sydney Perth Adelaide Melbourne other' (your poll) has 141. So the participation in the 'Moderation' poll is not high and does not reflect the views of a large number of forum users.

You are proposing quite significant changes to a forum that I know well and would characterise as: successful, clear + straightforward, on the whole good natured, vibrant, offering good information. The forum I envisage your proposed changes will bring will be: cluttered, bureaucratic, clumsy, censored, stale.

I believe the proposal was motivated by one or two 'poor taste' posters whose contributions can easily be ignored by using Paul's suggestion of an 'ignore list'. (You can edit your own personal lists at this URL:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/memb...userlist=ignore). So the original motivation IMO has already been answered.

Finally, a simple majority vote, in favour of change as you propose, is not enough - 60/40 split means nothing much (it equates to 5 votes at present) - but if the majority was decisive I would have no problem with going along with clear majority opinion (say, 80% in favour of your proposed changes.)

Cheers - Don - and my congratulations to the original website designer who made the forum so easy to use and bureaucracy-free!

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don,

I'll try to answer as best I can.
- In all voting systems, you always ever get one shot and I believe by providing a cut off date, I did provide sufficient notice for people to vote. I'll ask Admin Paul if he can see what people's original voting intention was and if he can, I'll arrange for your vote to be changed.

- This poll asks a very simple question "Do we want this Forum moderated", not the level of it. The next poll will ask about the level of moderation, based on the comments here. Might you be jumping the gun? :)

- I see your view re the poll on 'Vote for Brisbane Sydney Perth Adelaide Melbourne other'. That's been running for 5 months!! I think some of the people who voted on it have left the forum :) and actually I'm thinking of closing that thread, if I can work out how to do that :confused: We really can't wait 5 months for a vote and I think that 2 weeks gives the more active and caring members of the forum ample time to express their view don't you think?

- To be honest, I'm trying to keep the forum "successful, clear + straightforward, on the whole good natured, vibrant, offering good information". Not too sure where the "cluttered, bureaucratic, clumsy, censored, stale" comes in. Remember this is in response to a whole slew of posts saying how negative the board had become. By the way, did you have another user name before Aug 2002? Please assist.

-I'm afriad we are going to have to agree to disagree about a majority. Must admit if it was 51% to 49% it may be different, but I've modelled this on good old UK national elections :). First past the post wins.

Take heart, the question was "Should this Forum be moderated?" The rest is yet to come.

Nigel db

P.S. Thanks for caring enough to comment. Seriously, I mean it. :)

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

I always thought the usual order went: debate and discuss first, followed by vote. The good old UK national elections have a campaigning period when candidates make their views known...followed by a vote. Parliaments and debating chambers everywhere tend to stick to the principle that on proposals where participants/ voters might like to explore the issues in depth, there is rational argument pro- or anti- the motion, followed by a vote. Your poll has this the wrong way round.

Already one poster has indicated he might like to change his mind on the issue. Plus particularly on this forum there are times when users disappear for a couple of weeks (the move abroad) so will not get a chance to vote.

Why not allow a proper vote in the first 2 weeks of September?

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don,

The process at the moment IS debate and discuss and then vote. Forgive me but I'll do my best to make this really clear.

1. About two posts ago you wrote "yes i agree with moderating spam, racism. and swearwords directed at individuals", i.e. you agree with moderation.

As you notice, this thread is "CALL FOR COMMENTS" and the third aparagraph in the original post states
First off, DO YOU WANT THIS FORUM (as opposed to newsgroup) MODERATED?
If the vote is greater than 50% for YES, then I will collate all suggestions and objection in response to this posting and then draft a supplementary charter with the other moderators and put it back to the FORUM for a vote. Please note the second vote!!!

Our current charter i.e. the newsgroup one clearly states the purpose of this unmoderated group

This is my current problem in that I'm being asked to moderate an unmoderated forum!!!!! I'm first trying to clear that up. I havn't got this the wrong way round.

2. On the second point. As I promised, I've checked with Admin Paul and IF you want ABSOLUTELY NO MODERATION AT ALL, i.e allow, spam, swearing and racism, please let me know at the end of the month and I'll get your vote changed. I really only want to do this once with Paul as it seems to be a bit of a bind.

Hope this clears things up

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

SPAM- what has yucky pink tinned meat that yer mum used to give ya got to do with anything. Dont tell me- another abreviation!! (please explain Nige- looking good for Saturday btw -see i am getting the hang of it! LOL!!!

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Nicky,

Fraid SPAM isn't an abbreviation. I've done quick trawl on definition and got "generally e-mail advertising for some product sent to a mailing list or newsgroup. " It's essentially a thread started by advertising.

Advertising, in response to a request is OK, e.g. if someone asks if there are any agents on the board etc, it is OK for any of the professionals to post a message in reply saying get in touch with me at ......

However if an agent starts a post with "Want to got to AUS/NZ?, see my website at ...." This is SPAM (unsolicited advertising) and will probably be deleted.

I'm sure one of the more knowledgable members will help us out here if I am way off track. Please do :)

Hope this helps

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

1. No I didn't - that was shaun/lor.
2. Wrong again, I never asked or intimated that my vote be changed, I'm happy to have voted for an unmoderated forum.

See how easy it is for anyone - moderators included - to jump in to a post and get it wrong? The beauty of our forum at the moment is that it is self-moderating, when someone posts something unpleasant or wrong they can be upbraided, corrected, screened out. No need for third party interference in the form of moderation.

Don

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don,

:o My sincere and humble apologies.:o Sorry, trying to keep track is doin' my head in. Got it all mixed up. Many, many apologies and thanks for your patience.:o

Lets see if I can get it right this time??

Your post had "debate and discuss first, followed by vote. ............Your poll has this the wrong way round."

At the moment I'm trying to clarify a discrpeancy between the current charter (UNMODERATED) and the current situation on the FORUM (MODERATED). It says every time we post something, something about the post will be moderated etc etc etc. Also it's possible to report a post to a moderator.

I figured this topic would be an easy type poll/vote to post and I'll follow the majority deceision here.

Sorry about all the to-ing and fro-ing but I hope I'm trying to keep this debate up front as it is very important.

Once again, many apologies and very red face indeed :o :o:o:o:o

By the way, please let me know if I muck it up again in the future.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

No need for red face or apology - it's not easy to lead, especially to lead those who may not want to be led! I don't envy the role of moderator, keep plugging away.

Cheers - Don