CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

To all members of www.britishexpats.com Forum - Migration to Australia & New Zealand

The purpose of this posting, which is not (I hope) being mirrored on the misc.immigration.australia+nz board is to ask all FORUM members if and how we want this FORUM to be moderated. NOTE: we are not proposing to moderate the misc.immigration.australia+nz newsgroup. We want your suggestions for this FORUM and this post will remain open until the end of September.

First off, DO YOU WANT THIS FORUM (as opposed to newsgroup) MODERATED?
If the vote is greater than 50% for YES, then I will collate all suggestions and objection in response to this posting and then draft a supplementary charter with the other moderators and put it back to the FORUM for a vote.

If you don't want to post any suggestions and/or comments, please feel free to send me a Private Message.

Call for comments is: IF "YES" HOW DO YOU WANT THIS FORUM MODERATED TO MAKE IT MORE USEFUL TO THOSE OF US SEEKING IMMIGRATION TO AUSTRALIA? see below for starters.

Please don't copy the body of this proposal in your replies. It will just wreck my printer when I have to print it all out. THANX


Important distinction - FORUM vs NEWSGROUP
====================================
This call for comments is ONLY about the www.britishexpats.com Forum - Migration to Australia & New Zealand. There is no intention or ability to moderate the newsgroup misc.immigration.australia+nz.

To clarify the situation 100%, britishexpats.com simply pulls in all messages from misc.immigration.australia+nz. Adding a level of moderation would add filtering of posts from the newsgroup to the FORUM and filtering of direct posts to this FORUM. If anyone wants to use a news browser to look at misc.immigration.australia+nz, they will see every message, whether it has been deleted on British Expats or not.
THIS PROPOSAL ONLY APPLIES TO THE FORUM AND NOT THE NEWSGROUP


Justification for this posting
====================
Over the past 18 months the character of this Forum has been changing. Some of this has been for the better, some for the worse. The key thing to me is that there have been a marked increase in the number of requests for moderating across a range of posts. Also, there has been some discussion over the charter of the forum . As we follow the misc.immigration.australia+nz newsgroup, we use the same charter (see below). Strictly speaking, this is an UNMODERATED NEWSGROUP and therefore, this posting is, strictly speaking, irrelevant :), however this is our forum and if we want moderation on this FORUM, so be it. Also according to the charter, no Aus or NZ resident should start a thread but that is unrealistic :) Heck we break this charter every few hours. So maybe we need to change the charter?

The aim of the FORUM is to assist people in their research and the immigration and moving process in a constructive manner. It is not to convince people to go elsewhere, or stay at home. By all means we should be made aware of potential potholes in moving to Australia, but it does not help the purpose of the FORUM for postings based on scare stories, personal rants etc. Informative YES, scaremongering NO. Many have said that they would like to see the forum to get back to basics, and into the spirit of what it was designed for. This is the reason for this post.

If you voted yes, some suggestions please. Also, if you object to any of the suggestions, SAY SO!
If you voted no, also, please say so.

THIS THREAD WILL BE CLOSELY MODERATED TO STOP ANY FLAMING OR ABUSIVE POSTS. PLEASE BE CIVILISED AND CONSTRUCTIVE.

For starters:

In addition to the misc.immigration.australia+nz charter, the Migration to Australia & New Zealand FORUM moderator will:

A. delete all posts that are, in the opinion of the moderator, racist, spam or advertising messages other than those from sources recognised in the misc.immigration.australia+nz charter.

B. add the letters OT to the subject line of any posting, in the opinion of the moderator, considered Off Topic to the process of obtaining the visa and moving across to Australia and New Zealand, this includes posts related to humour, sport, house prices, quality of life, etc.

C. delete all posts that simply consist of cut and paste from newspapers and other sources, unless they relate to the process of obtaining a visa or citzenship, e.g. officially released visa processing times. html links to newspapers and other sources will not be deleted, unless they contravene any other part of this charter.

D. delete any thread that is started by a post which is simply, in the opinion of the moderator, meant to convince people to go elsewhere, or stay at home

E. only on receipt of a complaint, review any personally abusive and/or problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. If the posting is considered to be abusive or problematic, the complete post will be deleted rather than edited by the moderator. The complaint has to be accompanied by a considered reason why the post needs to be moderated.

F. close any threads that are, in the opinion of the moderator, turning into arguments and which add no relevance to the forum.

G. not delete any posts simply due to a disagreement of personal opinion.

H. Moderators have to be voted to their position, by a simple majority, every six months. This will take place by use of the poll. If no new names are put forward, the Moderators will remain in their volutary posts.


Right gang, I have left myself wide open here but it is our Forum so lets say what we want on it. Bear in mind, moderators are not on the FORUM 24/7 and so any moderating will take place when we are around, that is if we want moderators.

CAST YOUR VOTE NOW AND COMMENT AS YOU SEE FIT

Nigel db

===============================================
The misc.immigration.australia+nz group addresses:

1. Pending immigrants (definition: persons who are planning their immigration to Australia/New Zealand but still live overseas) to Australia seeking advice, employment and a new residence in Australia/New Zealand, also for exchanging views and news on current immigration regulations.

2. Australian/New Zealand recruitment agencies, private companies/businesses, government employment services, universities etc. who wish to post job offers; real estate agents and private home sellers; all Australian/New Zealand residents who wish to respond to queries posted by a pending immigrant. As most job offers posted to already existing groups address residents of the same country (no sponsorship required) job offers posted to this new group shall specifically address overseas migrants.

3. The readership and the purpose of this unmoderated group being clearly defined above, we hope that common sense will prevail and that no messages that are irrelevant to migrants will be posted to this group.

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

[Good idea,

At last some sense amongst all this chaos!

Although maybe some of the humourous posts by some of the more well known characters on this forum could be left on (please) They keep some of us sane through all the trauma's of emigrating. If they can't be left on it looks like hitting the bottle (LOL)

Good Luck !

Julie x
Adelaide by early 2003

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

You can prevent your post being propogated to usenet by placing a check mark in the appropriate box at the bottom of the new posting form.

If a thread starter is marked 'Do Not Send' then all replies to that thread will not propogate to usenet (regardless of their setting).

And don't worry... this thread has already been marked and along with it's replies, will not go to usenet. :)

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Although I along with a many others have been increasingly irritated by certain posters comments, I believe that to moderate the board in the way suggested could reduce the amount of valusable if slightly off topic information that can be gained.

It is very easy to identify who the "offenders" are and choose not to read posts or threads added by these individuals. I also believe that "people power" can be brought to bear for example the rants that we have been seeing from PB seem to be tempered now with some more positive information and opinions and although I fundamentally disagree with many of his earlier postings there seems to be a change in attitude.

I believe that increasing the moderation will remove much of the humour on the site and also the genuine expressions of good will when people are finally able to make the fabled " I have got it!" post.

My plea is for self control and self regulation by all users ( I agree that some of the scare mongering posts are unhelpfull if not down right pathetic) and I would like to add a vote of thanks to the moderators for a sometimes thankless task which keeps this board a mine of information and a place to come for all views and experiences, however expressed.

Cheers
Pete

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Petafray, Juls,

Agreed some of the humerous, "Got it" posts and other ore off topic posts are part of the spirit of the FORUM, which is why I proposed part B, i.e to put OT at the front of the message. Maybe this could help :confused:

BTW thanks for spending the time to put forward a considered response.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

My comments below (sorry, had to quote some of the original otherwise my comments would make no sense)
Agreed
Yes, but be careful what you consider to be 'off-topic'. Information on house prices or quality of life or cost of living for example is not necessarily off-topic if it is genuinely informative and the sort of information that a potential migrant would have difficulty finding elsewhere.
Agreed.
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with posting contructive information about life in Australia or NZ - no matter how 'good' or 'bad' - that a potential migrant may otherwise be unaware of. Posts with the deliberate intention of solely discouraging or encouraging migration for the sake of it should be removed though.
Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed if you think this will work. I don't envy anyone the task of having to read through the whole of this forum every day though ! You all deserve a pat on the back.

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

A dissenting voice from me, with respect as I recognize the thought that has gone into the proposal. I just don't see that this problem is large enough to be an issue.

What I personally object to is spurious 'third level' swearing but that seems to be moderated already.

Isn't there a way for members to put irritating posters on 'killfile' so that you just never see their posts?

Cheers - Don

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Yep... in the form of an ignore list. You can edit your own personal lists at this URL:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/membe...serlist=ignore

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Thanks Paul.

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Yes, but be careful what you consider to be 'off-topic'. Information on house prices or quality of life or cost of living for example is not necessarily off-topic if it is genuinely informative and the sort of information that a potential migrant would have difficulty finding elsewhere

Nick, just wanted to point out that the group I've just set up, Ozemigrate@yahoogroups, will be aimed at just those sort of questions. Stuff regarding life after moving to Oz, rather than info on immigration, visas, etc. So it's not all quite so hopeless. We've had a good number of people joining, hopefully we'll get lots more as time goes by.

All the best,
Maria

To subscribe to my group, look up "Ozemigrate" on yahoogroups or send an email to:
[email protected]

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Sorry, but I disagree, and for several reasons:

1) I consider that somehow, it is important to preserve a certain "fredom of expression".

2) I prefer to have a larger range of information, even if it sometimes goes out of the topic and to choose myself my readings.

3) I'm able to ignore or to read carefully any message which is out of purpose and I don't need (and I don't want) anybody to sort the threads instead of me.

4) My own level of tolerance couldn't be exactly the same than a moderator and I think this is true for all of us.

I am rather new to this forum and so I didn't see how it changed over the past 18 months. I understand (and I saw myself) that there were some abusive posts. But I'm convinced that if you write a thread to ask people what they consider to be off-topic, you will never reach a consensus. Therefore, how a moderator could do a good job ? I think that people who are seeking for relevant info about immigration are smart enough to ignore themselves unrelevant theads...

By contrast, I deeply agree with the recommendation you wrote concerning abusive posts and I suggest that people on this forum can adopt a common line: each time somebody sends a thread which is unrelevant or abusive we could simply contest and send the same recommendation.
We saw for instance that there is an actual unity between us when somebody send that ridiculous thread about "Fake marriage"...

As a conclusion, I suggest not to create a moderated forum, but to promote people cohesion.

Regards,
Myriam

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

If you wish to continue the validity and usefulness of this board some sort of action definitely needs taking.

I've been monitoring this forum for over a year, and in the last 3 months or so it really HAS changed for the worse. I used to refer to it as a valuable source of NEWS and INFORMATION. However, as it has expanded and been updated, it has degenerated into a house of commons style opinionated, entrenched arguement, with no obvious end. This would be fine BUT as with all message boards I've ever setup myself (I'm a web/graphic designer), inevitably chaos ensues. It's just human nature, and the sad, sour, darker characters with way too much time on their hands begin to get undue influence.

Either the forum should be carefully (NOT heavily) moderated OR SPLIT. There should be two main sections - NEWS AND INFORMATION, and YOUR OPINIONS, with perhaps a clear statement to accompany the OPINION section like 'The views expressed herein do not necessarily represent..' etc etc.

I have no problem in reading 'real' views - we all feel very strongly about issues. BUT - if I want to find pertinent information it should be clear and available. I got the impression originally that this was an excellent source of TECHNICAL emigration process information, the latest news and developments and what have you. But that's been put aside by a bad case of whinging pom disease. I just feel that new users MUST be feeling put off by the bickering going on right now - several people I've directed to this forum are bemused and disappointed.

I leave it with you as to what to do, but for now the forums content is becoming increasingly irreverent (and irrelevant?). Still, leaves me more time to actually work productively during the day...still waiting for that visa (21 months, a deeming date nightmare, and counting - be warned).

PS Nigel - Dredd Rules.

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

I agree with Nick. I do think we should have some degree of moderation and the OT note will just hopefully mean it is yet another weird and wonderful comment from Baldbutts and Tipper (sorry Tipper for extremely drunk phone call last night but not every day you sell your house).

Thanks for this site- whoever started it was a wise man/woman indeed.

Cheers

Nicky

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi,

Just think monitoring the forum would open a pandora's box to be honest. if people rant and rave, so be it, it's up to whoever reads it to take it seriously or not.
hopefully we can all get what we want from the site. If the 'thought police' are involved then I think it's a bit of a sad day.
it's just like watch tv really isn't it. if you don't like what you see or hear turn off or over.
generally people on this site are thinking of/ in the process of/or have moved 'down under' so ask a question and some one will answer. you can tell who is being help with positive criticism/advice.

leave as is is my view!

Cheers

Sy.

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

I kinda know where you are coming from with the moderation angle...although I already thought that it was moderated to an extent! Okay so there are individuals that may post stuff that people dont agree with, the arguments etc etc...to me its all part of the group..

I have not been in the group as long as some but have noticed it does seem to go in cycles, I remember a couple of members not so long ago that caused a bit of discent with the rest of the group, arguments flew back and forth (although I am sure it was moderated to some degree)....in the end they sorted out there differences and now are invaluable in the group. Most people that popped up just to insult soon got bored and left.

The forum is a 'community', and every community is filled with a range of people, from those that may come across as argumentative and nighbours from hell...ranging through to the more parental types who try to look after everyone. I like the mixture to be honest, I like the banter and as long as the really nasty stuff is cut out ie racist remarks, swearing then I am a happy bunny.

Just my 10pence worth...

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don,

Sorry, don't understand (probably not hip enough :) )? What is 'third level' swearing?

Nigel

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

This seems a sensible suggestion,

Would it be useful to have to pick a subject when starting a thread. It could be split as follows
- Visa -how to, timings, whoppee I've got it, etc
- Getting there everything you need to know about getting to Aus/NZ, packers, pets, flights, car imports etc
- Aus/NZ life once you have got there, what's it really like
- Other absolutely anything else

Then we could have at the front of every post
- Visa
- Going
- Aus/NZ Life
- Other

I'll ask Paul (admin) if this is feasible.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

I personally do not think the Forum should be split. If a person wants to post rubbish in a split forum, he/she can simply cross-post the crap to all other forums.

Nigel's suggestion seems logical, although it's more to do with self-categorization rather than moderation.

Perhaps the categories for tagging a thread can be multiply selected instead, as sometimes a thread can encompass more than one category.

Just my $0.02

Peter

Only changed my quote. Promise. Nigel db

I believe you, and I believe you forgot to insert the "/" between Aus and NZ

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Probably betraying my age, but (so as not to offend anyone I hope)

OK: bl***y, sh*t

Not OK: bas****, c***, wa**** etc

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

new rules...ok, not too tight though

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

It's really buggin me- what was Mr Flibble out of now? I seem to remember it being out of something v. v. funny?

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

As someone who is headed for NZ (visa in the post!), the immigration process was a relatively simple one. I have, however, found this forum extremely useful as regards "off topic" info, i.e. house prices, nice areas, good schools, flight info, etc. and the humour which often accompanies these posts lightens the days whilst we sit and wait. I certainly don't want to see any of that removed.

I'm not sure that the problem is such a big one. Having said that, the majority of info on here is for those headed for Oz which, for obvious reasons, I don't often read. I have though reported one or two posts for moderation myself in the past which contained racist or unnecessary abuse. All I would say, if you are going to start categorising posts, don't forget us headed to NZ!

Lizzie:)

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

My fault Lizzie. Get a bit tunnel vision sometimes

If/When we go down category route, I'll make sure it also refers to NZ

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Don,

Forgive me but serious question. If there is a posting with the word "bastard", etc. Should
- the whole post be removed?
- just the bit (paragraph or sentence, it all depends) with the word in it
- just replace "bastard" with "bas****"

I sort of feel "bas****" just as bad as "bastard" as we all know what is actually meant.

Really looking for help here people.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

I don't know the answer. But for me, the clue would be in my original post: is the swearing 'spurious' . If the swearword in question is of some relevance, it would be OK by me. Eg the handle 'Pommie Bastard' would be fine as it refers to a well known Aussie phrase and is not (I think) calculated to offend. Another eg, where the sweary bit is clearly amusing, it would be OK.

But just swearing badly because a poster got angry or frustrated would be off limits.

But I don't know the answer, just speaking for myself and I'm not particularly un-sweary at times.

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

I am with this post - don't know the answer - but as a thought, if the swearword is directed towards another poster or her/his opinion it is usually unnessary even if it is star*****'ed. But even this level gets rather difficult, so I have voted for unmoderated (beyond what we have currently - the opportunity to ask for an individual post to be removed because of a crass or offensive post) because it is a case for individual opinion and we can choose to read/not read.

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Nicky...MrFlibble was from an episode of Red Dwarf....Quarantine I think...it was when Rimmer went doolally and had a penguin hand puppet that had hex ray vision (it was either that or me called King Potato).

For everyone else who hasnt seen Red Dwarf....then apologies for it making no sense whatsoever!

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Now come on theres nothing wrong with my name , it took me time to get used to it , but quite like it now all the Aussies use it when talking to Poms its a a nick name .
Most abuse in the English langauge only has 4 letters in each word , so bastard is okay.
Stop being so boring most Brits can take a bit of banter , if not they should stay at home .

:D

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

No worries PB, wouldn't dream of changing the PB brand :)

Just trying to get feedback on other use of swearing. By the way, thanks to PB, Sandra and Don for your feedback.

Nigel

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

A. Agreed

B. "this includes posts related to humour, sport, house prices, quality of life, etc." - no - these things are relative to the commity and lifestyle

C. No

D. "any thread that is started by a post which is simply, in the opinion of the moderator, meant to convince people to go elsewhere, or stay at home" AGREED! AGREED! AGREED! There is no benefit to having someone continously post who simply whats to irritate people.

E. AGREED

F. AGREED

G. AGREED

H. AGREED


Thanks Nigel

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

People need time to think about the ramifications of ndaltonb's proposal. But we (tend to) vote first, then think and read the other posters' comments later. Any deciding vote on dalton's proposal should be a new poll after the close of comments on this thread, as the results might be quite different to what we see now.

For me, it comes down to:

let's adopt the new arrangements/ censorship/ bureaucracy/ clumsiness/ lack of vitality that is proposed

vs

certain poster(s) is/are irritating - but I now know it is simple to screen them out (see Paul's post on the thread).

Cheers - Don

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

i agree with pleasence post.
i agreed to moderation when i voted at the start of this thread. but being the indesisive type that i am i now think i wish i had gone the other way, oh see now im confusing myself.
ok here we go, yes i agree with moderating spam, racism. and swearwords directed at individuals.
no i dont agree with deciding on a title for thread, or in moderators opinion moderating, there must be some very strict guidlines of things that would be moderated and how.
so i guess what im saying is, unless its abusive leave it alone its a very good forum at the moment, and major changes as proposed could be for the worse in the long run.
sorry to change my mind prehaps i should have done this later in the day shaun and lor

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don and Shaun/lor

I sort of sypathise but with the votes at the moment 60:40 I'd have real difficulty setting this going again. I can't really put the question up again because people want to change their minds. Everyone was told the vote would stay open to End Sept.

At the beginning of next month, I'll look at the vote re moderating and all the comments and then put a new charter forward for approval, however the question re moderating will have to be based on result of this vote. How to be moderated will be decided later.

Hope this helps

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Shaun/Lor,

Trying to understand, whats the problem in adding a subject heading to a thread. This topic comes up every couple of months and the earlier proposal seemed a good way of helping out.

I can only see advantages in saying a thread is about "Living in Aus" or "Off Topic". Where are the disadvantages? Just to say again, really trying to understand here. The thread will still have a made up title, just adding a category to it.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

the problem with adding a subject heading to a thread...
is that very often the subject on many threads end up very different to when the thread was started, so therefore alot of threads will not be read.
just my opinion and im sure it wouldnt effect me too much as i read most threads anyway, im just airing my thoughts your way. cheers shaun

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Shaun,

No worries. I'm desperate for people thoughts on this matter.

Nigel db

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

With respect Nigel, I don't understand why you would have any difficulty at all asking for a 'definitive' vote. You said, in effect, 'people may read the posts, get better informed and change their minds about the level of moderation they would like - but I can't be bothered about people who change their minds'. What does a few more days matter?

This poll has 53 votes so far (20.00 CET). 'Vote for Brisbane Sydney Perth Adelaide Melbourne other' (your poll) has 141. So the participation in the 'Moderation' poll is not high and does not reflect the views of a large number of forum users.

You are proposing quite significant changes to a forum that I know well and would characterise as: successful, clear + straightforward, on the whole good natured, vibrant, offering good information. The forum I envisage your proposed changes will bring will be: cluttered, bureaucratic, clumsy, censored, stale.

I believe the proposal was motivated by one or two 'poor taste' posters whose contributions can easily be ignored by using Paul's suggestion of an 'ignore list'. (You can edit your own personal lists at this URL:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/memb...userlist=ignore). So the original motivation IMO has already been answered.

Finally, a simple majority vote, in favour of change as you propose, is not enough - 60/40 split means nothing much (it equates to 5 votes at present) - but if the majority was decisive I would have no problem with going along with clear majority opinion (say, 80% in favour of your proposed changes.)

Cheers - Don - and my congratulations to the original website designer who made the forum so easy to use and bureaucracy-free!

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don,

I'll try to answer as best I can.
- In all voting systems, you always ever get one shot and I believe by providing a cut off date, I did provide sufficient notice for people to vote. I'll ask Admin Paul if he can see what people's original voting intention was and if he can, I'll arrange for your vote to be changed.

- This poll asks a very simple question "Do we want this Forum moderated", not the level of it. The next poll will ask about the level of moderation, based on the comments here. Might you be jumping the gun? :)

- I see your view re the poll on 'Vote for Brisbane Sydney Perth Adelaide Melbourne other'. That's been running for 5 months!! I think some of the people who voted on it have left the forum :) and actually I'm thinking of closing that thread, if I can work out how to do that :confused: We really can't wait 5 months for a vote and I think that 2 weeks gives the more active and caring members of the forum ample time to express their view don't you think?

- To be honest, I'm trying to keep the forum "successful, clear + straightforward, on the whole good natured, vibrant, offering good information". Not too sure where the "cluttered, bureaucratic, clumsy, censored, stale" comes in. Remember this is in response to a whole slew of posts saying how negative the board had become. By the way, did you have another user name before Aug 2002? Please assist.

-I'm afriad we are going to have to agree to disagree about a majority. Must admit if it was 51% to 49% it may be different, but I've modelled this on good old UK national elections :). First past the post wins.

Take heart, the question was "Should this Forum be moderated?" The rest is yet to come.

Nigel db

P.S. Thanks for caring enough to comment. Seriously, I mean it. :)

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

I always thought the usual order went: debate and discuss first, followed by vote. The good old UK national elections have a campaigning period when candidates make their views known...followed by a vote. Parliaments and debating chambers everywhere tend to stick to the principle that on proposals where participants/ voters might like to explore the issues in depth, there is rational argument pro- or anti- the motion, followed by a vote. Your poll has this the wrong way round.

Already one poster has indicated he might like to change his mind on the issue. Plus particularly on this forum there are times when users disappear for a couple of weeks (the move abroad) so will not get a chance to vote.

Why not allow a proper vote in the first 2 weeks of September?

Re: CALL FOR COMMENTS: Proposed NEW Britishexpat Forum Rules. Open until end Sept
 

Hi Don,

The process at the moment IS debate and discuss and then vote. Forgive me but I'll do my best to make this really clear.

1. About two posts ago you wrote "yes i agree with moderating spam, racism. and swearwords directed at individuals", i.e. you agree with moderation.

As you notice, this thread is "CALL FOR COMMENTS" and the third aparagraph in the original post states
First off, DO YOU WANT THIS FORUM (as opposed to newsgroup) MODERATED?
If the vote is greater than 50% for YES, then I will collate all suggestions and objection in response to this posting and then draft a supplementary charter with the other moderators and put it back to the FORUM for a vote. Please note the second vote!!!

Our current charter i.e. the newsgroup one clearly states the purpose of this unmoderated group

This is my current problem in that I'm being asked to moderate an unmoderated forum!!!!! I'm first trying to clear that up. I havn't got this the wrong way round.

2. On the second point. As I promised, I've checked with Admin Paul and IF you want ABSOLUTELY NO MODERATION AT ALL, i.e allow, spam, swearing and racism, please let me know at the end of the month and I'll get your vote changed. I really only want to do this once with Paul as it seems to be a bit of a bind.

Hope this clears things up

Nigel db