|
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by arkon
Jobs were plenty, in fact there were 37000 job vacancies of a high calibre and some for the common folk too!
Look, you could swap your property up North for a similar/smaller one down there and be quite happy. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by thatsnotquiteright
be quite happy.
|
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
I would say it's not too different to the outpourings on UK radio. Especially those radio stations further away from london. Where I sit here in inner Urban Melbourne. Particuarly here in 51pct plus ethnic Moreland, I can honestly say I dont witness any racism. So what have you actually really witnessed in Real Life ?
Please don't equate those with the loudest and most cynical voices that you hear on radio and assign those views to the whole of Australia. Thats a dead thick thing to do. . We haven't experienced any racism first hand to speak of but...the subtle aspects you hear in the media betray a deeper, societal racism I think. I remember about a week after I arrived in Australia and John Brogden (the then Liberal leader of NSW?) made his comment about the premier of NSW wife being a "mail order bride"..... I was more shocked by the fact that he must have felt that it was acceptable to say to his audience. I remember at the time that the majority of the discussion in the newspaper was about the fact that Brogden had been offensive to the Premier and not about the inherently racist attitude of a high ranking politician. There was hardly any discussion - even in qualities like The Australian - which explored the issue of racism within high political circles at the time. The big question that I had was not "Why had he been offensive?" but "Does this suggest that racism is deeply ingrained within politics?" Can you imagine how any female Asian who happens to be married to an Australian living in Brogden's constituency must have felt? Can you imagine what she must have felt like if she went to Brogden for help? Imagine him sitting, sneering cynically about the "good fortune" that the lady had to get into Australia and if it wasn't for her great body and good looks she'd still be in the paddy fields. Would he have said the same thing if the lady in question had been a Brit? A deeply, deeply offensive insult to all Asian women. The lack of media questioning about why such a racist bigot could get to such a high position to me suggested a subtle, almost implicit, acceptance of racist attitudes in the establishment. Don't you come across those subtleties all the time? The feelings that Brits are generally OK but if you have an Asian background then the welcoming arms of Australia just draw back a little. Just slightly more hesitant? Ozzieeagle, I hear comments - on the radio in particular - which suggest that racism is ingrained within both the Establishment and the population. Comments which you would just not be allowed to say in the UK. Often the comments are assumptive and generalised. Most often I hear assumptions about Muslims - classically "They come over and expect us to...blah blah blah" and yet what they really mean is that some Muslims come to Australia and have unrealsitic expectations - just as some Brits, some Kiwis, some Germans also do. "And if they don't like what we Australians do here in Australia then they should just bugger off back to where they come from." Who are "we"? If the commentator is Australian then they are speaking for how Vietnamese people in Australia do things, how Indian Hindus in Australia do things, how Chinese people do things and yes, how Muslims do things - because all of these people are what Australia is. They are all Australians. But when these particular commentators are talking about "we" they are actually talking about white Anglo-Saxon Australians. So when they are talking about what "we do" they are actually talking about the BBQ, Beach and the Christian lifestyle that is classically Anglo-Saxon Australian. They aren't talking about 21st Century Australia at all. And the media is often guilty of giving a voice to the myth of a homogenous Anglo-Saxon Australia when the actuality is far more varied. Although I constantly here these types of comments "We in Australia....our way of life....our values" I rarely if ever, hear the media actually question what the person means by this. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by arkon
You must listen to the news? Watch the telly? listen to talk back radio? It can be just my view. I don't want to start a row about how unfriendly towards any non white they are, but I can't believe if you watch the same news and radio as I do you could come up with any other conclusion. I think it all started during the gold rush when the Chinese got out of hand but I could be wrong.
|
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
We haven't experienced any racism first hand to speak of but...the subtle aspects you hear in the media betray a deeper, societal racism I think.
I remember about a week after I arrived in Australia and John Brogden (the then Liberal leader of NSW?) made his comment about the premier of NSW wife being a "mail order bride"..... I was more shocked by the fact that he must have felt that it was acceptable to say to his audience. I remember at the time that the majority of the discussion in the newspaper was about the fact that Brogden had been offensive to the Premier and not about the inherently racist attitude of a high ranking politician. There was hardly any discussion - even in qualities like The Australian - which explored the issue of racism within high political circles at the time. The big question that I had was not "Why had he been offensive?" but "Does this suggest that racism is deeply ingrained within politics?" Can you imagine how any female Asian who happens to be married to an Australian living in Brogden's constituency must have felt? Can you imagine what she must have felt like if she went to Brogden for help? Imagine him sitting, sneering cynically about the "good fortune" that the lady had to get into Australia and if it wasn't for her great body and good looks she'd still be in the paddy fields. Would he have said the same thing if the lady in question had been a Brit? A deeply, deeply offensive insult to all Asian women. The lack of media questioning about why such a racist bigot could get to such a high position to me suggested a subtle, almost implicit, acceptance of racist attitudes in the establishment. Don't you come across those subtleties all the time? The feelings that Brits are generally OK but if you have an Asian background then the welcoming arms of Australia just draw back a little. Just slightly more hesitant? Ozzieeagle, I hear comments - on the radio in particular - which suggest that racism is ingrained within both the Establishment and the population. Comments which you would just not be allowed to say in the UK. Often the comments are assumptive and generalised. Most often I hear assumptions about Muslims - classically "They come over and expect us to...blah blah blah" and yet what they really mean is that some Muslims come to Australia and have unrealsitic expectations - just as some Brits, some Kiwis, some Germans also do. "And if they don't like what we Australians do here in Australia then they should just bugger off back to where they come from." Who are "we"? If the commentator is Australian then they are speaking for how Vietnamese people in Australia do things, how Indian Hindus in Australia do things, how Chinese people do things and yes, how Muslims do things - because all of these people are what Australia is. They are all Australians. But when these particular commentators are talking about "we" they are actually talking about white Anglo-Saxon Australians. So when they are talking about what "we do" they are actually talking about the BBQ, Beach and the Christian lifestyle that is classically Anglo-Saxon Australian. They aren't talking about 21st Century Australia at all. And the media is often guilty of giving a voice to the myth of a homogenous Anglo-Saxon Australia when the actuality is far more varied. Although I constantly here these types of comments "We in Australia....our way of life....our values" I rarely if ever, hear the media actually question what the person means by this. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
We haven't experienced any racism first hand to speak of but...the subtle aspects you hear in the media betray a deeper, societal racism I think.
I remember about a week after I arrived in Australia and John Brogden (the then Liberal leader of NSW?) made his comment about the premier of NSW wife being a "mail order bride"..... I was more shocked by the fact that he must have felt that it was acceptable to say to his audience. I remember at the time that the majority of the discussion in the newspaper was about the fact that Brogden had been offensive to the Premier and not about the inherently racist attitude of a high ranking politician. There was hardly any discussion - even in qualities like The Australian - which explored the issue of racism within high political circles at the time. The big question that I had was not "Why had he been offensive?" but "Does this suggest that racism is deeply ingrained within politics?" Can you imagine how any female Asian who happens to be married to an Australian living in Brogden's constituency must have felt? Can you imagine what she must have felt like if she went to Brogden for help? Imagine him sitting, sneering cynically about the "good fortune" that the lady had to get into Australia and if it wasn't for her great body and good looks she'd still be in the paddy fields. Would he have said the same thing if the lady in question had been a Brit? A deeply, deeply offensive insult to all Asian women. The lack of media questioning about why such a racist bigot could get to such a high position to me suggested a subtle, almost implicit, acceptance of racist attitudes in the establishment. Don't you come across those subtleties all the time? The feelings that Brits are generally OK but if you have an Asian background then the welcoming arms of Australia just draw back a little. Just slightly more hesitant? Ozzieeagle, I hear comments - on the radio in particular - which suggest that racism is ingrained within both the Establishment and the population. Comments which you would just not be allowed to say in the UK. Often the comments are assumptive and generalised. Most often I hear assumptions about Muslims - classically "They come over and expect us to...blah blah blah" and yet what they really mean is that some Muslims come to Australia and have unrealsitic expectations - just as some Brits, some Kiwis, some Germans also do. "And if they don't like what we Australians do here in Australia then they should just bugger off back to where they come from." Who are "we"? If the commentator is Australian then they are speaking for how Vietnamese people in Australia do things, how Indian Hindus in Australia do things, how Chinese people do things and yes, how Muslims do things - because all of these people are what Australia is. They are all Australians. But when these particular commentators are talking about "we" they are actually talking about white Anglo-Saxon Australians. So when they are talking about what "we do" they are actually talking about the BBQ, Beach and the Christian lifestyle that is classically Anglo-Saxon Australian. They aren't talking about 21st Century Australia at all. And the media is often guilty of giving a voice to the myth of a homogenous Anglo-Saxon Australia when the actuality is far more varied. Although I constantly here these types of comments "We in Australia....our way of life....our values" I rarely if ever, hear the media actually question what the person means by this. Those mail order bride comments, was something that shocked me, at the time. To be honest though, I dont know whether it means Australia as a whole is more racially intolerant than the UK, Or it's just the media has less boundary's here. Whatever it is, it is unacceptable. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by Amazulu
You raise some interesting points. I think Kim Beazley, although not openly racist, is quite xenophobic. His anti-immigrant & migrant worker stance of late is really directed at '3rd world' immigrants. Hence all the references to minimum wages & health issues relating to TB & other '3rd world' illnesses. UK & other western migrants generally don't work for minimum wages or have TB, Aids etc.
Absoluteky and you've reminded me of something else. Alan Carpenter (the premier of WA) the other week said that if Western Australia continues to employ migrant labour then there would be a "racist backlash". So: 1. Does he mean that if we continue to accept British teachers or German engineers or American doctors then there will be a racist backlash? Or does he mean that if we continue to accept Asians there will be a racist backlash? 2. Doesn't he realise how his comments will be used to justify racist attacks and insults by others? "Well Alan Carpenter said it would happen..." 3. Shouldn't he have said that any racist insults or intimidation of migrant workers will be treated extremely seriously by the authorities"? I was extremely disappointed by his comments. They were irresponsible and xenophobic. But again the lack of real media attention to his comments was inescapable. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
Ozzieeagle, I hear comments - on the radio in particular - which suggest that racism is ingrained within both the Establishment and the population. Comments which you would just not be allowed to say in the UK.
Often the comments are assumptive and generalised. Most often I hear assumptions about Muslims - classically "They come over and expect us to...blah blah blah" and yet what they really mean is that some Muslims come to Australia and have unrealsitic expectations - just as some Brits, some Kiwis, some Germans also do. "And if they don't like what we Australians do here in Australia then they should just bugger off back to where they come from." ..... Although I constantly here these types of comments "We in Australia....our way of life....our values" I rarely if ever, hear the media actually question what the person means by this. Institutional racism is a major problem but I don't believe it is worse here - it might be verbalised more though but that is almost more preferable than the UK pretending they are wiping it out whilst silently enforcing it. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
Absoluteky and you've reminded me of something else.
Alan Carpenter (the premier of WA) the other week said that if Western Australia continues to employ migrant labour then there would be a "racist backlash". So: 1. Does he mean that if we continue to accept British teachers or German engineers or American doctors then there will be a racist backlash? Or does he mean that if we continue to accept Asians there will be a racist backlash? 2. Doesn't he realise how his comments will be used to justify racist attacks and insults by others? "Well Alan Carpenter said it would happen..." 3. Shouldn't he have said that any racist insults or intimidation of migrant workers will be treated extremely seriously by the authorities"? I was extremely disappointed by his comments. They were irresponsible and xenophobic. But again the lack of real media attention to his comments was inescapable. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by moneypen20
Good post but I would just take issue with the above statement - it is allowed in the UK - how often do you hear the UK media say exactly the same about Muslims and Middle Eastern people as a whole expecting the world when they arrive in the UK. It is no different. A minority might, but the silent majority of immigrants just want to work and make a better life for themselves.
Institutional racism is a major problem but I don't believe it is worse here - it might be verbalised more though but that is almost more preferable than the UK pretending they are wiping it out whilst silently enforcing it. I think that it certainly does occur in the UK - look at what enquiries into the police force have found. But I'm not convinced that I heard it within UK political circles such as the Australian examples that I have given. For Alan Carpenter place Tony Blair or for John Brogden, place David Cameron. Now imagine what the British respected press would have said - the BBC, The Times, The Guardian - if similar comments had been made by these political heavyweights in the UK. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
I think that it certainly does occur in the UK - look at what enquiries into the police force have found.
But I'm not convinced that I heard it within UK political circles such as the Australian examples that I have given. For Alan Carpenter place Tony Blair or for John Brogden, place David Cameron. Now imagine what the British respected press would have said - the BBC, The Times, The Guardian - if similar comments had been made by these political heavyweights in the UK. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2018855.stm |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
I think that it certainly does occur in the UK - look at what enquiries into the police force have found.
But I'm not convinced that I heard it within UK political circles such as the Australian examples that I have given. For Alan Carpenter place Tony Blair or for John Brogden, place David Cameron. Now imagine what the British respected press would have said - the BBC, The Times, The Guardian - if similar comments had been made by these political heavyweights in the UK. |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by MartinLuther
This was the big one I remember from just before I left the UK.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2018855.stm |
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by arkon
Yes, Although not prosecuted for her opinion she was still held accountable and sacked. Accountability here is somewhat lacking IMO.
|
Re: Bill Bryson was wrong about Canberra!
Originally Posted by MartinLuther
This was the big one I remember from just before my departure from the UK.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2018855.stm I remember this one too. My comment is not that it doesn't exist in the UK but that the British media raise issues like this into the spotlight. When you read the article you can see the furore it created. She was sacked and it made front page news because she made a racist "joke". I doubt that the media would focus so much on the racism of a politician here in Australia. |
| All times are GMT -12. The time now is 11:15 am. |
Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.