The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

So we're going to Brisbane in December (me, wife and two girls 3 & 5) and we're wondering if anyone else is going for the same reasons we are i.e. better future for our children.

We're coming from the UK and I have serious doubts about the opportunities available to our kids when they are in their teens, making important decisions about their futures.

What are peoples opinions about career/life opportunities in Australia available to our children?

OK, the UK isn't in it's best shape at the minute, economically, but geographically it's positioned well to experience all of what Europe offers and indeed the States is only a 5 hour flight away. Whereas the closest country to Australia is 10+ hours ways. And to be frank I'm not sure Asia will offer the best in life for my girls.

And what about career opportunities. currently in the UK I'm reading for every postgraduate job opportunity their are 250 students applying for it. I also read somewhere that a large engineering firm were offering 300 apprenticeship schemes and they had 10,000+ applications. Does Australia have a similar scenario?

Australia, is essentially an Island in the middle of nowhere, and a huge one at that. Are my girls going to experience different lifestyles, cultures, experiences living on one island? Has Australia any culture to offer at all to rival France, Italy, Holland, Germany, dare I say…UK?

Is the perceived Ozzy lifestyle (laid-back, sun, sea, outdoor living, wildlife etc. etc.) enough? Are we as parents making a choice for our children today that will not allow them to experience as much of life as possible?

Or am I thinking too much???

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Personally... we moved to Perth 6 years ago and haven't looked back.
You think Brisbane is isolated... you should try Perth!! :)

At their age, your kids they have a lifetime ahead of them. Come and experience a new lifestyle that Australia has to offer and enjoy the life changing experience, get your citizenship (what a gift to give your kids, dual nationality) and by then you'll know if it's good for the kids or move somewhere else, my guess is you wont want to go anywhere!

It's a hugely stressful time for you all and your right to ask questions to make sure you get it right.. good luck.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

I was going to reply in a flippant manner with a phrase that will probably come to annoy the crap out of you, going by the tone of your post... not that there is anything wrong with your post mind you.

"She'll be right"

However I'm intrigued by one aspect of your post, which seeing as you are relatively new to these forums that I'd like some clarification on mostly for my benefit. Others could be interested as well.

Can you give me a brief explanation as to what part culture that you mention in your post plays in your everyday life and why it is so important to you. I see this aspect mentioned all the time... and I'm not exactly sure what relevance it has to everyday life in Australia and how Australia and most particularly Melbourne supposedly is lacking in ?

Other than that... My 3rd Oldest Daughter is on the cusp of joining the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra... going to major in Music and either her wish is Nuclear Physics or Electrical Engineering at Melbourne uni.... So my moving to Aus hasnt done her much harm She has worked out the Cambridge is the place to go if she really starts to achieve though.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

You'll still need to work 5 days a week, so any lifestyle change is really only at the weekend.

Australia has shitloads of coal and gas, industries relying on it are booming, many others aren't. In some professions you can walk straight into a good job, but in others there is also a lack of work. Ask anyone involved in the house building industry.

There is no right answer I'm afraid, it's just a case of balancing what you want against what you think might happen.

The esteemed leaders of the EU seem to think creating another 2 trillion out of thin air is the answer to all their problems and it will be boom time again, many people think that it's just prolonging the agony and making the inevitable collapse even worse, whatever happens there could be the actual thing that decides if you made the right decision.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

No difference. If you have kids who are immersed in history, culture, the arts etc then UK if they are into rugby and tennis then probably Australia.

Your kids will probably end up on the other side of the world from you in your old age anyway

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Agree with Quoll. If your kids are into culture, history, intellectual pursuits then the UK wins. Outdoors interests; naturalist, sports etc then Australia is better. Economically Australia is better right now but in ten years time who knows which country will be the better option.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

New Zealand is 3.5hrs
Singapore/Malaysia is 5hrs
Indonesia is 1.5hrs

8-10 hrs gets you to the middle east, Africa, Japan

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

That is a bit insulting to present-day OZ, Quoll. The days when Aussies had to go to Europe to find 'culture' - when the likes of Clive James and Germaine Greer left - are long gone surely?

How do you define 'culture', 'the arts', 'history' etc? 'Julius Caesar is on at the Opera House this month, Richard III at another theatre in Dec, As You Like it I think at Belvoir St. The Sydney Opera House - the very name makes you think that, being Australia, it is just a pub?

London apart, I defy you to name any British city that offers more in the way of 'arts' than Sydney or Melbourne.

All the major cities have their cultural festivals featuring Aussie and overseas performers.

To say that a country of over 22 million is only interested in sport (not that I would mind personally) is an insult.

And if Australia's (European) history is 'irrelevant' because it only starts in 1770 would mean that studying the period post 1770 in the UK would be pointless too - Dickens, Austen, Bronte, et al all useless and modern.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Apart from Melbourne no other major Oz city, and hence definately not smaller ones, have a cultural feel about them or the ambience of of Paris, Rome or other European feel to them.

Travel is very expensive once you're here and even camping is vastly more expensive than 5yrs ago. European travel is retardly cheap compared to Qantas flights. The same distance flight will set you back 4-5 times more than Europe.

Qld has nothing but the beaches and BBQ to offer as it has no culture and the kids I know struggle for things to do as a teenager.

Job prospects are much better in Oz than the UK due to the strong economy but even then companies are being stingey and there's not quite so many jobs at present.

Groceries, electrical goods and cars are expensive here but you do have to weigh that as part of your COL from wages to outgoings in the UK to Oz.

The kids in Oz do have a more upbeat nature compared to the UK but they MUST cover up from the sun properly as even winter UV levels are extremely high and the younger you are the more chance of skin cancer in later years or even teenage years if unlucky or not covered up enough thro time.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Hmm, remind me again where I can see Roman ruins in Australia, they dont have to be Fishbourne beautiful, just any will do? Which great Tudor mansion is worth visiting in Sydney or Melbourne? And when was the last time we had a long season of Michael Sheen playing Hamlet or Judi Dench in a long run? (John Bell is good but very samey after 30 years) Ah yes, a few grinding stones and some fairy tales based loosely on natural phenomena are really going to satisfy the urges of a field walker (I think not!)

Cambridge - much smaller than Canberra - has a signficantly better cultural profile IMHO I am going to enjoy the Christmas Eve carol service in person this year! I am also going to join the Field Walkers as soon as I can get free of family responsibilities and know that I am not going to get eaten by mozzies or besieged by blowies in the process. Good stuff!

I notice you didnt pick up on the benefits of Aus for sporty kids - so, which country holds the Ashes at the moment? Who has the higher ranking tennis player (and, for all I know, golf player) etc. Whose soccer teams perform better at world level??? So, perhaps I knock the UK too much with respect to sporting prowess LOL.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Your children are only young, they will get a lot from the outdoor lifestyle - there's many events/festivals etc and a lot are free. There're many different backgrounds here so a lot of cultures in that respect but culture as in 'ancient ruins', no. The children can always go back to Europe when they're older if they want to experience a different type of culture.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Your children are 3 and 5?

Who knows what the world will be like in 13 years time?

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Reading your post, I think Sydney or Melbourne would suit you better than Brisbane and would cater to more of your concerns, particularly the ones about jobs and career.

BB

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

When your kids grow up the world will be very different.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Very true. To the point that Australia may have undergone the Renaissance!!:p

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

In my opinion (and I’ve only been in Melbourne 3 months) there, I really miss the cultural history of the UK and Europe. I also miss being able to jump on a plane and get out into rural France in a couple of hours and experience a completely different way of life. I also miss the wonderful UK architecture of the historic buildings. I know that great architecture doesn't have to be old, and all old architecture isn't great. But I think a lot of people in the UK are generally desensitized to that sort of thing, especially compared with Americans and Australians. I mean most village churches in the UK are older than anything built Australia.

What I don’t miss is high unemployment rates, no prospects of promotion or a pay rise due to the economic crisis, a stagnating career, high violent crime rates, the drink until you drop culture, chavs with staffies, traffic congestion and free-loading foreigners.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Unfortunately both countries have high crime including violent crime, drink problems, blah blah blah. I have never bought into the Australia being better for kids argument and I have lived here since 1962 on and off. Most kids here sit in front of the TV playing games and wouldn't know what the weather was like anyway. As for a better future I'm afraid no-one knows what the situation will be in 10 or 15 years.
I do understand people in another country only wanting to hear about sun and surf and lots of work and free time. The reality is bills, long hours, traffic, crime etc.
If you want to live in Australia then I suggest you do it but it isn't some sort of panacea or Utopia, for many people it is lacking in lots of ways.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

True, you don't see many kid playing in the street therse days, not like when 'I was a lad'.

But if they stay inside playing Doom all weekend then that is down to sub-standard parenting rather than lack of opportunity. There is more inner city green space here than in the UK so there would be no excuse to give then a ball and kick them outside for a few hours.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Both places have their unique features and which one is best for any particular person is up to that person alone. England and Europe have white civilisation history ranging back 1000 years (OK, Stonehenge is older but not much else predates the Normans), Australia has aboriginal culture stretching back 40,000 years together with some spectacular scenery and wide open spaces. I had the first 36 years of my life with the former and the last 29 with the latter and personally I could live in either place.

Depending on how old your kids are, what will be best for them is what they will grow up with. My daughters were 5 & 3 when we came out to Australia and think of themselves as Australian. And as Quote says, if they stay indoors playing computer games all the time it doesn't matter where they live.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Don't forget that Oz is good at that gay, lesser version of Rugby :) you know, leg or leuge or something :lol:

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Doom?! :rofl:

That is very telling ...

Have you actually interacted with any children lately or is all this coming from what you have heard or made up? :lol:

7 posts since May, I assume you are a quality over quantity sort of expat?

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Fairly sure DNA analysis has shown that modern (white) humans arrived in Britain at least 25,000 years ago? Recorded history starts about 1000 years ago.

Slighty off topic, but does anybody know why, if the Aborigines have been in Australia for 40,000 (and settlement of Oz only occurred c.1790), the civilisation did not advance they way it did in Europe? Did wars drive the advancement of civilisation and the building of bigger and stronger fortification? Are we more materialistic?

Heading to the Grampians this weekend to go and look at some cave art and investigate this :)

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Ok, Battlefield 3, MoH, FIFA 2011, WOW, Space Marine, Pong etc etc. Unfortunately I'm legally not allowed any direct contact with children :blink:

Definitely not quality, getting out here just didn't take very long :p

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

The aboriginals and red indians had a different way of life by living with the land and not gathering possessions, which is why aboriginals have a habit of burning their interior doors in council housing cos they don't get possessions and use that which they find to keep warm, fed, whatever. Different way of life. The red indians did have a few tribes that killed other tribes but mainly for the horses, supplies and women cos they weren't the farming type.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

It really is irrelevant which country has more inner city green space, that very much depends on exactly where you live. Most kids we know here spend far more time indoors than out, it can't be blamed on the parents if the kids want to be inside. My kids will kick a ball around for awhile then they get too hot and go back inside.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Doom is a siginificant pastime for the waster with whom I live. Kids are definitely playing it too. Too easy to use the cheats nowadays - infinite armour, weaponry and life.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

This bit really is an individual and location thing. Where we are here unemployment is 9% whereas were we are going back to it's around 4%. People get promoted and get pay rises in both countries, the amount again depends on different factors. Violent crime is everywhere, again depends where you live. Binge drinking and drink related crime is a huge problem here as it is in the UK, here we have Bogans with pitbulls, traffic again depends where you live and sorry to say that free loading foreigners are a universal issue. All in all its same shit different bucket.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

I do.

http://oneguyrambling.com/wp-content...3/PDVD_000.jpg

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Aw, alright then :D

It does depend on where you look, there seem to be lots of kids out and about around here but there is more space so this is probably a factor.

There is certainly no shortage of trail bikers in the nearby forest, whether that is a good thing or not depends on your tolerance for engine noise :)

Come the height of summer I'm not keen on going outside for any length of time so I'm not going to force the kid out there ... There is the option of going hinterland and up the mountain for some respite though.

And I guess there is one of the advantages of living here (my home, not Oz in general) ... 30 minutes to the coast, 40 to the city (not peak time, realists) or 25 to the top of the mountain.

And over 3 acres to play with for an outlay of just over $300k (5 years ago).

We'd be hard-pushed to do this in the UK and not have a hellish commute.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

we're about to have our first kid and while we've just bought a flat over here, my intention is absolutely to take it, and any future ones, back to the UK in a year or so. The historical/cultural/aesthetic side of things here just doesnt really resonate with me too well. Tried Sydney, tried melbourne and unfortunately confined to either by work.

Sure, its all pretty and nice and the economy is doing well but ultimately I find it just vacuous, shallow, insular, expensive and quite boring. It will never be home for me, just the place I currently live.

There's very little surprises to be had here. (in the way of physical architcture and history, no close proximity to vastly different areas and cultures) and the whole bizarre concept of 'Australia is so much better for my kids' I find laughable. There's crime here, there's shit teachers here, there's all the same issues here as there are anywhere in the world, and then there'll be some endemic ones too - like the scortching weather. Australia's biggest drawcard will burn you in minutes if you dont rug up in the sun.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Australia has wombats.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/...b5a39bfea7.jpg

Case closed.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

QFT

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

All the kids in my road play in the street, just about every day when the weather is good. They swim in each others pools, go to the park. At the weekend some of them went to the park and swam out to the island in the lake.

The boys still like the video games too though.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Exactly. Any parents that let their kids play PS3 all day are retards. My son, and all his mates, have a great outdoor lifestyle - and sometimes play video games. He's starting triathlon training tomorrow - at 8 years old.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Yup, it's all about balance. For adults as well as kids for that matter.

Our kid has joined the Guides and she's loving that, they went for a 3 hour hike last week in the local bushland. She's also done soccer training and signed up for the AusKick AFL programme.

I guess all you can do as a parent is to set a good example and give them a chance to sample a wide variety of activities.

The kid is at home today, she is supposedly sick but I suspect a bit of creative licence has happened ... We're going off up the mountain this afternoon for some bushwalking as a 'punishment' :D

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

It's a bad time for graduates in the UK now, but that may be very different when yours are older.
I'm in Brisbane and I find it very boring and to be honest quite lonely. I miss architecture, culture, travel but most of the time I miss my friends and family who were a fantastic support network when my kids were younger in the UK. My kids are late teens and are doing well - they are into science/engineering and there are many opportunities in Oz for this. If they were artistic/creative it would be better for them in the UK. Unemployment is no worse in the south of the UK where I'm from than it is in Brisbane. Even though my youngest daughter has done exceptionally well here she still craves the British climate and would move back like a shot to escape the heat!
So come for an adventure but not because it's better for the kids. It's not better, just different.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

I often take my toddler to a play area by the local oval when I get home from work early. There's usually a few school children about kicking a ball of one shape or another. I had to chuckle to myself the other day when I saw a group of high school kids smoking. In uniform too. Kids are the same the world over, although I think even in my day we would have been behind the pavillion and not in front of it.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

its a health and safety issue. if they were behind the pavilion smoking and something happened to them and no one helped, the parents would sue the pavilion owners for blocking line of sight to their child, thus preventing anyone offering assistance. and they'd probably win too!

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

Too true. To be honest I was too gobsmacked by the fact they could afford fags to think about the OH&S issues.

Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
 

To each their own. I adore it here for my kids and we don't particularly miss the culture on a daily basis and we can get it if we choose to do so. My kids haven't even played on their video games since we moved here and they love being outside. But they were much the same in the UK. I never view any place we live as permanent. It works for us now and if it continues to do so, then we'll stay. If it doesn't, then we can always head back to Europe or the US.