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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Of course if you are from the frozen North then the heat can be appealing but most of the Southern parts of the UK at least have usually quite mild winters so it's not so much of an issue. Our kids have little interest in going outside when it's around 30 degrees.
Originally Posted by Japonica
(Post 9693907)
From our perspective, looking at the two extremes, the summer in Australia is a better option for going outside. Even on the days when it's in the high 30s, the early morning or at dusk we can bring the kids to the park when it's "only" 25 to 29C or something. There was no point during the Canada in winter when it was -30C that it would miraculously warm up to -10 for a few hours so the kids could go out and play for half an hour in the playground (digging the piles of snow off the equipment). At least not for those of us unfortunate enough to reside outside of the chinook areas.
Australia suits us better and this is one of the reasons. |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by denzil73
(Post 9694253)
Blah blah blah. What i've said is from my memory of history lessons. If I got things wrong then please correct me as then my history knowledge will be better.
I don't like posters that don't like a post yet fail to quantify in a pleasant manner what was incorrect with the other persons post. As for Red Indian that is how I've always heard them referred to in conversation and there are other names for Native Americans if you wish to be racist but I am not and didn't think the term 'Red Indian' was non-PC. And from my history knowledge there were a few of the tribes that DID go around pilaging from neighbouring tribes. I can go look it up if you like? and if I prove myself wrong I'll say sorry. Yes, there was intertribal warfare, both pre- and post-European contact. Pre-contact it tended to focus more on territory disputes and resources. This includes significant trade networks that existed before the arrival of Europeans. Post-contact, well, these types of disputes continued but there was more at stake now with fur trade networks, territory gains and losses, and of course, European alliances. But sure, lots of examples of warfare through the ages. The Iroquois destroyed Huronia in 1650. Intertribal warfare continued almost unabated through the latter part of the 17th century in the Great Lakes region and it wasn't until the peace treaty in 1701 that things settled down. In the western part of the country, the Cree migrated west and northwest in the 1720s to take advantage of new trade opportunities, but they pushed into Dene lands and there was substantial bloodshed. The Cree and Blackfoot have also been traditional enemies (and they are two of the main nations in Alberta, the Dene up north is the third) and I have Cree friends to this day who refuse to attend Blackfoot events. So, sure, it wasn't one big happy love-fest. That said, there were also harmonious trade networks and alliances (for example, the Oolichan or grease trails where the coastal First Nations would trade this oily fish with the native peoples of the interior), occasional intermarriage between neighboring tribes (usually ones with a common culture and language) and obviously with Europeans. Nations tended to vacillate between co-operation and conflict, depending on current circumstances of the time. There were some notable peacemakers during that time too, like Thanadelthur, or in the 19th century, any of the influential chiefs who participated in the treaty process. We can chat about this more if you'd like...no worries. One of my undergrad degrees was Honors in Native Studies (Canadian, obviously). My thesis wasn't on intertribal warfare, but how historical governmental policy and legislation served to define peoples of part-Native ancestry in both Canada and Australia. However, I think I can recall the important bits of the notable pre- and post-colonial conflicts to get by. It's been a while since I talked shop, but it's enjoyable nonetheless. :thumbup: |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by In Exile
(Post 9693455)
we're about to have our first kid and while we've just bought a flat over here, my intention is absolutely to take it, and any future ones, back to the UK in a year or so. The historical/cultural/aesthetic side of things here just doesnt really resonate with me too well. Tried Sydney, tried melbourne and unfortunately confined to either by work.
Sure, its all pretty and nice and the economy is doing well but ultimately I find it just vacuous, shallow, insular, expensive and quite boring. It will never be home for me, just the place I currently live. There's very little surprises to be had here. (in the way of physical architcture and history, no close proximity to vastly different areas and cultures) and the whole bizarre concept of 'Australia is so much better for my kids' I find laughable. There's crime here, there's shit teachers here, there's all the same issues here as there are anywhere in the world, and then there'll be some endemic ones too - like the scortching weather. Australia's biggest drawcard will burn you in minutes if you dont rug up in the sun. The only reason I'm there is cos of my Oz wife. If I hadn't met her there'd be bugger all chance I'd live here long term. Oh and Qlders are racist to the core as I've yet to find a true Aussie mate whereas in the UK I made friends very easily. They don't like it if you don't come from convicts-ville. :) |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by denzil73
(Post 9695014)
Oh and Qlders are racist to the core as I've yet to find a true Aussie mate whereas in the UK I made friends very easily. They don't like it if you don't come from convicts-ville. :)
A lot of the problems mentioned here seem to be experienced by people living in Queensland. I recommend any potential migrants take note that Australia is a diverse country with more than one area to choose to live in. Nobody, from the minute I arrived here, has ever disliked me for not coming from Australia. And to my Kiwi wife's surprise, nobody has ever given her jip for coming from New Zealand. People here have been nothing but welcoming, consistently. BB |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
(Post 9695290)
A lot of the problems mentioned here seem to be experienced by people living in Queensland.
I recommend any potential migrants take note that Australia is a diverse country with more than one area to choose to live in. Nobody, from the minute I arrived here, has ever disliked me for not coming from Australia. And to my Kiwi wife's surprise, nobody has ever given her jip for coming from New Zealand. People here have been nothing but welcoming, consistently. BB |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Dreamy
(Post 9695325)
And that Queensland is a very large state - during my two years there, I never suffered from many of the problems that others have faced.
BB |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by denzil73
(Post 9695014)
FTW and WHS. The grass is burnt and brown over here not green. Oh and pot for young teenagers to mid 20's is a huge thing here cos there is **** all for anyone to do in the evening and the Foxtel and terrestrial TV suck on a cosmic level.
The only reason I'm there is cos of my Oz wife. If I hadn't met her there'd be bugger all chance I'd live here long term. Oh and Qlders are racist to the core as I've yet to find a true Aussie mate whereas in the UK I made friends very easily. They don't like it if you don't come from convicts-ville. :) If tv is the only thing you to keep your teenagers occupied and the quality turns them to drugs then you do have a problem, but it's not he place you live, it's perhaps your attitude to life. Most of the teenagers I know don't have time for tv because they're too busy with sport, artistic pursuits and home work. Miserable, bored person in Australia = miserable, bored person anywhere they may be. The constant reference on this forum to Australians descending from convicts always baffles me, it's something that we as Australians hardly give a second thought, but some on here seem fixated on. Are you so shallow and ill educated that you think the only true Australians descend from Aboriginal or convict stock? I do have convicts in my family tree, women and men that stole food to keep their families alive. I also have free settlers, an Italian merchant sailor who settled in Fremantle and was a sail maker, friends who descend from orphans sent to Australia by the British government to get rid of them - having committed no crime other than to have no parent capable of feeding them and looking after them. This country is built from the sheer determination and hard work of those people that came here involuntarily but found they could make a better life for themselves - I'm sure there was never any whinging from them about how they couldn't get their favourite mint sauce. In fact, having spoken to one of the orphans who came to New Norcia in the 1920's/1930's many times before he died, he was so happy that he had been brought to Australia, he said the nuns at the orphanage in Liverpool were cruel to the children and it was freezing for most of the year, there was not enough to eat. When he arrived here, it was much tougher, kids died in farm accidents, the priests could be tough, but he personally never saw any sexual abuse from them, the weather was great, he loved working on the farm and he was never hungry. To the OP, Australia is like anywhere else in the world, what you make of it personally. Don't come here expecting the country to change your life for you, but if you're willing to accept that things are different, you can lead a great life here. South East Queensland has fantastic weather, decent schools, loads for kids to do, mine are at tennis, ballet and other activities before school, five days a week after school and all day Saturday. They ride their bikes down to the recreational reserve across the road, swim with friends, travel - life is good for them. |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695385)
You must live in a different Queensland to the one I'm in. My grass is not as green as it was last summer, but it's certainly not burnt and brown and will no doubt green up significantly as summer approaches.
If tv is the only thing you to keep your teenagers occupied and the quality turns them to drugs then you do have a problem, but it's not he place you live, it's perhaps your attitude to life. Most of the teenagers I know don't have time for tv because they're too busy with sport, artistic pursuits and home work. Miserable, bored person in Australia = miserable, bored person anywhere they may be. The constant reference on this forum to Australians descending from convicts always baffles me, it's something that we as Australians hardly give a second thought, but some on here seem fixated on. Are you so shallow and ill educated that you think the only true Australians descend from Aboriginal or convict stock? I do have convicts in my family tree, women and men that stole food to keep their families alive. I also have free settlers, an Italian merchant sailor who settled in Fremantle and was a sail maker, friends who descend from orphans sent to Australia by the British government to get rid of them - having committed no crime other than to have no parent capable of feeding them and looking after them. This country is built from the sheer determination and hard work of those people that came here involuntarily but found they could make a better life for themselves - I'm sure there was never any whinging from them about how they couldn't get their favourite mint sauce. In fact, having spoken to one of the orphans who came to New Norcia in the 1920's/1930's many times before he died, he was so happy that he had been brought to Australia, he said the nuns at the orphanage in Liverpool were cruel to the children and it was freezing for most of the year, there was not enough to eat. When he arrived here, it was much tougher, kids died in farm accidents, the priests could be tough, but he personally never saw any sexual abuse from them, the weather was great, he loved working on the farm and he was never hungry. To the OP, Australia is like anywhere else in the world, what you make of it personally. Don't come here expecting the country to change your life for you, but if you're willing to accept that things are different, you can lead a great life here. South East Queensland has fantastic weather, decent schools, loads for kids to do, mine are at tennis, ballet and other activities before school, five days a week after school and all day Saturday. They ride their bikes down to the recreational reserve across the road, swim with friends, travel - life is good for them. It's a more pertinent question asking what sort of person you are and what kind of things you and your kids do or want to do. Having said that there are people who do well economically in Australia after a poor start in the UK so it's not all bad; people that move from disadvantaged areas to less disadvantaged areas. This is why I don't parrot 'it's all the same' - it depends. Moving might be the best thing you ever do: get it wrong and it's just more of the same muck. |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
I realise you are VERY pro Aussie and that is just fine but where is this teenage Utopia of which you speak ? :D
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695385)
If tv is the only thing you to keep your teenagers occupied and the quality turns them to drugs then you do have a problem, but it's not he place you live, it's perhaps your attitude to life. Most of the teenagers I know don't have time for tv because they're too busy with sport, artistic pursuits and home work. |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by chris955
(Post 9695417)
I realise you are VERY pro Aussie and that is just fine but where is this teenage Utopia of which you speak ? :D
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
That's very nice and I'm not talking about the amount of things to do but it was more this line 'Most of the teenagers I know don't have time for tv because they're too busy with sport, artistic pursuits and home work.' I'm not being flippant but there must be something in the water where you are, our friends are always complaining that their teens are the typical teens who cant be bothered with anything and grunt their way through life.
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695444)
Brisbane suburbs - my three nephews live on the north side, they play and train for their sport every day, one attends the QAS every day after school. We live on the south side, have a tennis club within a two minute walk from the house, and a recreational reserve across the road, the dance studio is a five minute drive. A couple of weeks ago I went with a large group of pre-teens, teens and adults to the pre-screening of Footloose at Southbank - we all got the tickets free online and had a great night out - so much to do if you just take the time to look. Can't wait for Telstra Ballet in the Botanical Gardens in only a couple of weeks, haven't been for a few years and getting very excited.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by chris955
(Post 9695465)
That's very nice and I'm not talking about the amount of things to do but it was more this line 'Most of the teenagers I know don't have time for tv because they're too busy with sport, artistic pursuits and home work.' I'm not being flippant but there must be something in the water where you are, our friends are always complaining that their teens are the typical teens who cant be bothered with anything and grunt their way through life.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Japonica
(Post 9694457)
I did quantify in a pleasant manner. I said, PLEASE don't use the term "Red Indian," it's like saying "negro." It is not just non-PC, it's just not appropriate for use anymore. I am descended from those "Red Indians," and looking in the mirror, my skin doesn't look red at all. The other options I gave you to use are all acceptable variations, take your pick.
Yes, there was intertribal warfare, both pre- and post-European contact. Pre-contact it tended to focus more on territory disputes and resources. This includes significant trade networks that existed before the arrival of Europeans. Post-contact, well, these types of disputes continued but there was more at stake now with fur trade networks, territory gains and losses, and of course, European alliances. But sure, lots of examples of warfare through the ages. The Iroquois destroyed Huronia in 1650. Intertribal warfare continued almost unabated through the latter part of the 17th century in the Great Lakes region and it wasn't until the peace treaty in 1701 that things settled down. In the western part of the country, the Cree migrated west and northwest in the 1720s to take advantage of new trade opportunities, but they pushed into Dene lands and there was substantial bloodshed. The Cree and Blackfoot have also been traditional enemies (and they are two of the main nations in Alberta, the Dene up north is the third) and I have Cree friends to this day who refuse to attend Blackfoot events. So, sure, it wasn't one big happy love-fest. That said, there were also harmonious trade networks and alliances (for example, the Oolichan or grease trails where the coastal First Nations would trade this oily fish with the native peoples of the interior), occasional intermarriage between neighboring tribes (usually ones with a common culture and language) and obviously with Europeans. Nations tended to vacillate between co-operation and conflict, depending on current circumstances of the time. There were some notable peacemakers during that time too, like Thanadelthur, or in the 19th century, any of the influential chiefs who participated in the treaty process. We can chat about this more if you'd like...no worries. One of my undergrad degrees was Honors in Native Studies (Canadian, obviously). My thesis wasn't on intertribal warfare, but how historical governmental policy and legislation served to define peoples of part-Native ancestry in both Canada and Australia. However, I think I can recall the important bits of the notable pre- and post-colonial conflicts to get by. It's been a while since I talked shop, but it's enjoyable nonetheless. :thumbup: Thanks for the history lesson too. Nice to know a bit more indepth about your history. UK history when I was taught it gave an overview of many countries history so it was more like a whistle stop tour but gave a good idea of how things had come to the present day. One thing I found out in New York recently was how Netherlands business man bought Manhattan island from the Native Americans for such a small amount of gold because at that time the Native Americans didn't know the value of gold to westerners. Nice to see the underhandedness of business men goes back many centuries :) |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
I just love how people start these threads then bugger off never to post in them again. :lol:
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by chris955
(Post 9695465)
our friends are always complaining that their teens are the typical teens who cant be bothered with anything and grunt their way through life.
Teenagers I know here are always out playing sport and doing stuff. BB |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Dorothy
(Post 9695517)
I just love how people start these threads then bugger off never to post in them again. :lol:
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
And fanny and dick are off on little adventures.
Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
(Post 9695544)
Would that be your friends back in the UK?
Teenagers I know here are always out playing sport and doing stuff. BB |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
(Post 9695544)
Would that be your friends back in the UK?
Teenagers I know here are always out playing sport and doing stuff. BB |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
(Post 9695544)
Would that be your friends back in the UK?
Teenagers I know here are always out playing sport and doing stuff. BB they're teenagers. thats what they all do the world over! why is it that people (not aimed at you BB) get so fervently defensive about Australia, and the mere mention that something might not be perfect gets all kind of reactions? I take the good with the bad anywhere, but some people apparently fail to even consider that there might be some bad. very amusing! |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by In Exile
(Post 9695580)
drinking in parks? watching tv? playing Ps3/xbox? going to parties? trying to shag something? sleeping in late?
they're teenagers. thats what they all do the world over! why is it that people (not aimed at you BB) get so fervently defensive about Australia, and the mere mention that something might not be perfect gets all kind of reactions? I take the good with the bad anywhere, but some people apparently fail to even consider that there might be some bad. very amusing! A group of the girls I see daily are in their final years of school and recently had a peer murdered in her bed by her mother. The positive way those girls handled themselves in that situation was unbelievable, no going out and getting drunk, they grieved in a respectful manner, a real credit to everyone involved in their lives. |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695481)
These kids have been into their sport, homework etc from a very young age, it's their mindset, it's the way their parents have brought them up. It's called discipline, and sure I've seen some of them go off their own way when they reach teenage years, but the majority of kids that I've seen grow up in my circle of friends are very tame.
Anyone who thinks OZ teens dont get up to all this stuff is nuts:lol: Once they have cars too, its pretty hard for parents to 'monitor' what they are up to. My eldest was sooo sporty, did cricket, soccer, studied, but he was was a right one with the ladies by night:o Must have been all that fresh air and sunshine the aussie teens get:D |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by jad n rich
(Post 9695641)
Yep and many of those teens dragged off to sport/music/ballet/piano relax by drinking, shagging and general partying once parents are out of sight.
Anyone who thinks OZ teens dont get up to all this stuff is nuts:lol: Once they have cars too, its pretty hard for parents to 'monitor' what they are up to. My eldest was sooo sporty, did cricket, soccer, studied, but he was was a right one with the ladies by night:o Must have been all that fresh air and sunshine the aussie teens get:D |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695648)
If you'd read my latest comment you would have seen that I agree, that teenagers are the same the world over. I just think that they're given a bad rap and judged by the actions of a few. Teenagers will always drink, party, and have sex, but if they're not then getting into cars drunk, littering, shouting, abusing people and being irresponsible about their sex lives, then what's the problem. My comments were aimed at the poster who said the majority of teens, early 20's were off taking drugs because there's nothing on the box worth watching.
Good we all agree now. Aussie teens can be just as spotty, moody, horny, hairy, pissed, stoned as the rest of the worlds teens :lol: |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by jad n rich
(Post 9695656)
Good we all agree now.
Aussie teens can be just as spotty, moody, horny, hairy, pissed, stoned as the rest of the worlds teens :lol: |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695667)
I'm actually really surprised at how straight some teenagers are compared to my mates when we were growing up. We have some friends with three teenage daughters and they stayed with us in Dubai last year on their way home from Europe. The eldest (whose at Uni) took a bit a shine to one of the boys in our compound and I was teasing her about going and hanging out in his bedroom. Her mum confided later that she was a 19 year old virgin and had no intention of having sex until she found the right guy. Her mum couldn't believe she's such a good two shoes either, but we believe her because she has no reason to lie. She's not ugly, daggy or a loser, just has a little more moral fibre than her mum or I did at her age.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Turban Explorer
(Post 9695742)
My mum undoubtedly believed I was a virgin at 19 - the sorry truth that I'd been hard at it for 5 years by then wouldn't have destroyed her belief in my chastity. I even managed to keep my marijuana plant in the living room for three years (best light) until Dad grew interested in it's unusual leaf shape and looked in his horticulture book.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
No, friends here in Brisbane.
Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
(Post 9695544)
Would that be your friends back in the UK?
Teenagers I know here are always out playing sport and doing stuff. BB |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Some people are so incredibly defensive about this country, from what I have seen teens here appear to be no different than teens anywhere else I have seen them. The teens I know of aren't all out there becoming Olympic athletes, they are doing what teens do.
Originally Posted by In Exile
(Post 9695580)
drinking in parks? watching tv? playing Ps3/xbox? going to parties? trying to shag something? sleeping in late?
they're teenagers. thats what they all do the world over! why is it that people (not aimed at you BB) get so fervently defensive about Australia, and the mere mention that something might not be perfect gets all kind of reactions? I take the good with the bad anywhere, but some people apparently fail to even consider that there might be some bad. very amusing! |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695648)
If you'd read my latest comment you would have seen that I agree, that teenagers are the same the world over.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695766)
I'm not a naive parent and I can look at other people's kids from an outsiders perspective. This kid is genuinely really straight and her rather unstraight parents and I are quite shocked. It's the same for a lot of kids I know, they're much more open and honest with parents
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by chris955
(Post 9695800)
Some people are so incredibly defensive about this country, from what I have seen teens here appear to be no different than teens anywhere else I have seen them. The teens I know of aren't all out there becoming Olympic athletes, they are doing what teens do.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by scotdownunder
(Post 9695802)
But not in the world you live in apparently because the teenagers you know 'in your circle' are practically saints....:rolleyes:
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Getting back to the OP it is fair to say that kids are kids, teens are teens, it seems to make no difference whatsoever what country they grow up in. If they are into sport then they will play sport, if they are into indoor stuff then that is what they will do. Kids/teens seem to be no more likely to be stabbed/molested/bullied/ostracised/murdered in one country or the other. Kids are no more likely to make something of their life in either country. It is impossible to predict what either country is going to be like in 5/10/20 years.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
No I wasn't referring to you, I was replying to someone else's post.
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695805)
If you're referring to me, where in any of my posts have I said anything about teens being any different from country to country. What I have said is that you get in life what you put into it, no matter what your geographical location is. I think some posters just read the latest post and don't bother to read whole threads.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
So you know for sure that the kids you know are not taking drugs ? Serious question because I doubt the parents of most kids who take drugs would know and they are best placed to be aware of it.
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695806)
No, not saints, but certainly not doing drugs because there's nothing on the telly, read the whole thread would you.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695766)
I'm not a naive parent and I can look at other people's kids from an outsiders perspective. This kid is genuinely really straight and her rather unstraight parents and I are quite shocked. It's the same for a lot of kids I know, they're much more open and honest with parents when we were teenagers because, as parents, we're probably a lot more liberal in our thinking than our parents were. I know what kids are doing but as I've said, a lot are pretty tame in comparison to our day I reckon. I honestly must know a lot of nerds, they send me friend requests on Facebook (probably because I'm the one with the decent camera taking loads of photos at all the events we go to and they want to see them and tag themselves etc) but really, they're not doing anything really bad.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by chris955
(Post 9695800)
Some people are so incredibly defensive about this country.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Turban Explorer
(Post 9695813)
It was a wake up call for me when some children invited me to join them on Facebook and I 'ignored' them as I'm too sweary!
I'm dead jealous. |
Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by chris955
(Post 9695809)
So you know for sure that the kids you know are not taking drugs ? Serious question because I doubt the parents of most kids who take drugs would know and they are best placed to be aware of it.
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Re: The best future for our kids. Australia or UK?
Originally Posted by Kim67
(Post 9695806)
No, not saints, but certainly not doing drugs because there's nothing on the telly, read the whole thread would you.
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