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Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Old Jul 5th 2020, 4:46 am
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Default Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

I live in New Zealand and i since I've been here 7 years I've made plenty of friends, settled down, got married and have a son. I'm always one of those people who keeps an eye on the economy especially after the last big recession which is one of the main reasons i moved to NZ. With coronavirus things are expected to changed economically and i always like to keep my options open especially since most people in New Zealand are already living quite a financially stretched lifestyle just to keep up. I work in construction and was wondering does Australia still pay a significantly higher wage than New Zealand? For example a qualified carpenter in New Zealand could be expected to make $30 an hour. Also house prices, if we were to go to Australia it would be somewhere cooler like southern Australia or Victoria and maybe even Perth as it isn't very humid. Does anyone live here and if so in terms of employment in construction and housing would you recommend it? One last thing would be weather, we love the weather in Northern Canterbury in New Zealand, for most of the year it's mild/warm/hot and dry. Winter mornings and at night can be very cold however in those days you end up with a beautiful sunny day. Having a warmer climate would be ok especially in the winter just as long as the summers weren't too hot as i work outside lol
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 6:27 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by paddy234 View Post
I live in New Zealand and i since I've been here 7 years I've made plenty of friends, settled down, got married and have a son. I'm always one of those people who keeps an eye on the economy especially after the last big recession which is one of the main reasons i moved to NZ. With coronavirus things are expected to changed economically and i always like to keep my options open especially since most people in New Zealand are already living quite a financially stretched lifestyle just to keep up. I work in construction and was wondering does Australia still pay a significantly higher wage than New Zealand? For example a qualified carpenter in New Zealand could be expected to make $30 an hour. Also house prices, if we were to go to Australia it would be somewhere cooler like southern Australia or Victoria and maybe even Perth as it isn't very humid. Does anyone live here and if so in terms of employment in construction and housing would you recommend it? One last thing would be weather, we love the weather in Northern Canterbury in New Zealand, for most of the year it's mild/warm/hot and dry. Winter mornings and at night can be very cold however in those days you end up with a beautiful sunny day. Having a warmer climate would be ok especially in the winter just as long as the summers weren't too hot as i work outside lol
It's been a long time since the I have heard the term Land of Milk and Honey phrase in use. I think it was more a sixties and seventies term surely than more recent times? Funny how certain terminology continues way past its sale date. It's true Australia was considered a better prospect than New Zealand, in potential earning capacity. Just look at the figures for incoming New Zealanders since the turn of the century into Australia.
A few years ago the tide turned somewhat, with increased number of NZer's returning but I believe, (before virus halted em/ im migration) the rate of returnees had slowed.

You should be aware of continued decline in new builds across the states, due largely to the cessation of migration to Australia, (due to Corona Virus) too many rentals on the market, falling house prices have all combined to lesson demand for trades in those areas.
I have noted a lot of property agencies are using Asian and in some cases Eastern European tradespeople (no idea if sponsored on short term visa's,) rather than Australian workers. A number of construction sites around are also using large numbers of overseas workers
of various backgrounds. One assumes cheaper to employ , so rates likely to vary with such competition.

Last edited by the troubadour; Jul 5th 2020 at 6:31 am.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 6:37 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
It's been a long time since the :and of Milk and Honey phrase was heard in use. I think it was more a sixties and seventies term, but hardly relevant. It's true Australia was considered a better prospect than New Zealand, in potential earning capacity. Just look at the figures for incoming New Zealanders since the turn of the century into Australia.
A few years ago the tide turned somewhat, with increased number of NZer's returning but I believe, (before virus halted em/ im migration) the rate of returnees had slowed.

You should be aware of continued decline in new builds across the states, due largely to the cessation of migration to Australia, (due to Corona Virus) too many rentals on the market, falling house prices have all combined to lesson demand for trades in those areas.
I have noted a lot of property agencies are using Asian and in some cases Eastern European tradespeople (no idea if sponsored on short term visa's,) rather than Australian workers. A number of construction sites around are also using large numbers of overseas workers
of various backgrounds. One assumes cheaper to employ , so rates likely to vary with such competition.
It's a term i feel fitting for the way people used to compare the differences between Australia and New Zealand lol. Yea most of New Zealand's trade's people would be be Filipino, they are great workers with great personalities but they are only just temporary workers and send most of their money home meaning local industries such as Tourism and hospitality aren't feeling the effects. The construction industry is reliant on them however as there are so few young people coming through apprenticeships. Most UK and Irish people i know have went home or elsewhere, there isn't the same number there used to be. Maybe Covid-19 will change that. I have looked at houses in Perth for example to get an idea of the market and one can easily get a home at around $500,000 that is relatively new and fit for a family. This would be essentially the same as Christchurch.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 7:32 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by paddy234 View Post
It's a term i feel fitting for the way people used to compare the differences between Australia and New Zealand lol. Yea most of New Zealand's trade's people would be be Filipino, they are great workers with great personalities but they are only just temporary workers and send most of their money home meaning local industries such as Tourism and hospitality aren't feeling the effects. The construction industry is reliant on them however as there are so few young people coming through apprenticeships. Most UK and Irish people i know have went home or elsewhere, there isn't the same number there used to be. Maybe Covid-19 will change that. I have looked at houses in Perth for example to get an idea of the market and one can easily get a home at around $500,000 that is relatively new and fit for a family. This would be essentially the same as Christchurch.
We'll there won't be much need to take on apprentices I suppose , if so easy to bring in workers from China and Korea and Philippines, on temporally visas, who will work for less and an ability to hire and fire at will, without a lot of costs of holiday pay and the like. A lot of Irish have left Australia over recent years as well.

We still have at least three Irish households in my neighbourhood, but that is way, way down from five or so years back. Irish accents were very common back then.
An interesting point to Irish migration to Australia, was that the 2016 census, showed far less Irish than anticipated had decided to stay in Australia. The figure for the five year period, leading up to 2016, saw only 7,700 Irish born increase in population.

For $500,000 you need to regard the sort of suburb in Perth that would allow purchase into. There are a number of social issues, including heavy drug usage (as in NZ) with meth ice being especially common in WA. In fact WA, is sadly one of the biggest users of this dreadful drug in the world. It is everywhere and involves all sectors of society. From my experience over the past year, little if anything will stop this very major problem in our society. I might at one stage do a thread on this matter.





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Old Jul 5th 2020, 8:36 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
We'll there won't be much need to take on apprentices I suppose , if so easy to bring in workers from China and Korea and Philippines, on temporally visas, who will work for less and an ability to hire and fire at will, without a lot of costs of holiday pay and the like. A lot of Irish have left Australia over recent years as well.

We still have at least three Irish households in my neighbourhood, but that is way, way down from five or so years back. Irish accents were very common back then.
An interesting point to Irish migration to Australia, was that the 2016 census, showed far less Irish than anticipated had decided to stay in Australia. The figure for the five year period, leading up to 2016, saw only 7,700 Irish born increase in population.

For $500,000 you need to regard the sort of suburb in Perth that would allow purchase into. There are a number of social issues, including heavy drug usage (as in NZ) with meth ice being especially common in WA. In fact WA, is sadly one of the biggest users of this dreadful drug in the world. It is everywhere and involves all sectors of society. From my experience over the past year, little if anything will stop this very major problem in our society. I might at one stage do a thread on this matter. What would you say the average cost of a 4 bedroom family home in a nice suburb would be?





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Yea i noticed that, i think it was mainly down to the recovery from the last recession which saw the job market open back up and the fact that living in this part of the world gets too much for some after a while who are too far way from friends and family. Do you think that perhaps it didn't offer the quality of life they were expecting? Is there still a large migration from the UK as i read Perth was one of the most popular destinations so i'm assuming there is still plenty of growth? Meth and drug addiction in general is also a significant problem here, from all walks of life. A very large percentage of guys in the construction industry are regular users who would fail tests, quite scary when you think about it.

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Old Jul 5th 2020, 9:06 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by paddy234 View Post
I live in New Zealand and i since I've been here 7 years I've made plenty of friends, settled down, got married and have a son. I'm always one of those people who keeps an eye on the economy especially after the last big recession which is one of the main reasons i moved to NZ. With coronavirus things are expected to changed economically and i always like to keep my options open especially since most people in New Zealand are already living quite a financially stretched lifestyle just to keep up. I work in construction and was wondering does Australia still pay a significantly higher wage than New Zealand? For example a qualified carpenter in New Zealand could be expected to make $30 an hour. Also house prices, if we were to go to Australia it would be somewhere cooler like southern Australia or Victoria and maybe even Perth as it isn't very humid. Does anyone live here and if so in terms of employment in construction and housing would you recommend it? One last thing would be weather, we love the weather in Northern Canterbury in New Zealand, for most of the year it's mild/warm/hot and dry. Winter mornings and at night can be very cold however in those days you end up with a beautiful sunny day. Having a warmer climate would be ok especially in the winter just as long as the summers weren't too hot as i work outside lol
You're not going to find a similar climate unless you go to Tassie. Whilst the southern States may be cooler in winter, their summers are not. Whilst it's not continuous 40+ days are not uncommon. Same with Perth.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 10:41 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by paddy234 View Post
Yea i noticed that, i think it was mainly down to the recovery from the last recession which saw the job market open back up and the fact that living in this part of the world gets too much for some after a while who are too far way from friends and family. Do you think that perhaps it didn't offer the quality of life they were expecting? Is there still a large migration from the UK as i read Perth was one of the most popular destinations so i'm assuming there is still plenty of growth? Meth and drug addiction in general is also a significant problem here, from all walks of life. A very large percentage of guys in the construction industry are regular users who would fail tests, quite scary when you think about it.
Well I think a mixed bag. I was speaking with a youngish Irish woman the other day, that lives in my neighbourhood, from Co Cork, and was clear in her intention that she would not return to Ireland. She will remain on a partner visa , with her Irish chef boyfriend,
soon to get PR as sponsored by employer. (Irish pub) Another near neighbour, also staying on and just got his Japanese soon to be wife in on a partner visa. His brother, is trying to remain in Sydney with Irish girlfriend. Perth did not appeal.

Yes Perth has a large UK population. Less arriving over more recent years, as UK migrants in total fall in number to Asian migration. Perth has become, as all Australian cities, far more diverse over the years. Still large number of English enclaves, in the distant northern suburbs ,
but I barely venture to such far flung out posts.

The meth issue should not be under estimated in Perth or WA smaller towns. It is everywhere. A menace in the extreme to society, impossible to control with major players involved. My eyes have been wide opened to this scourge on society over the past year.
Just to get an insight into those making big money out of it, with nothing being done to curtail it is really shocking. We are one of the biggest users in the world. Prices have risen recently, with the likelihood ever more will be getting involved.


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Old Jul 5th 2020, 11:29 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

"Land of Milk and Honey" is a quote from the King James version of the Bible - https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Milk-And-Honey
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I have noted a lot of property agencies are using Asian and in some cases Eastern European tradespeople (no idea if sponsored on short term visa's,) rather than Australian workers. A number of construction sites around are also using large numbers of overseas workers
of various backgrounds. One assumes cheaper to employ , so rates likely to vary with such competition.
Could you please tell me where I can find such people? I am looking for tradies who aren't charging $100+ per hour and they certainly don't exist where I live.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 12:45 pm
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Could you please tell me where I can find such people? I am looking for tradies who aren't charging $100+ per hour and they certainly don't exist where I live.
Not up this way either.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Not up this way either.
Then try and get one to turn up without a 3 week lead in.

Australia is certainly the Land of Milk and Honey for a tradie.

Quick tip. Teach yourself via YouTube. You can save a fortune.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 10:46 pm
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Could you please tell me where I can find such people? I am looking for tradies who aren't charging $100+ per hour and they certainly don't exist where I live.
Hard to find for the local punter, I admit. Probably impossible. What I refer to are companies that appear to sponsor skills from abroad. These are not for public consumption. As with most things in Australia, Joe Public will pay a premium,
while 'business' has its ways to cut costs and operate to a degree under the radar of awareness of the general public.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 10:52 pm
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Then try and get one to turn up without a 3 week lead in.

Australia is certainly the Land of Milk and Honey for a tradie.

Quick tip. Teach yourself via YouTube. You can save a fortune.
It certainly does appear that way. But still, over the past year, the number of tradies, (or posing as) 'pushing' meth ice, quite possibly using as well, that have come to my attention is massive.
Either suggests meth ice is a more lucrative way to make money or simply 'easier' than mainstream working.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 11:45 pm
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
It certainly does appear that way. But still, over the past year, the number of tradies, (or posing as) 'pushing' meth ice, quite possibly using as well, that have come to my attention is massive.
Either suggests meth ice is a more lucrative way to make money or simply 'easier' than mainstream working.
You must have some problems in Perth. Firstly, larger construction sites here in the East are certainly not made up of the newer cheaper immigrants you refer to. You get Lebanese concreters and Chinese tilers but these are not new immigrants. No Indians or Bangladeshis. Trades that require a ticket are certainly those who have done their apprentiships or immigrated and spent the time converting. Labourers are generally your typical alcoholics, an easy buck to spend at the pub.

As for the meth, again can't say it's riddled here either like your prominent AFL players in Perth. Cousins - is that the guy? It might be rife in housing commission but then again, where are cheap drugs not rife in government housing anywhere in the western world? Cocaine does get a good look in but too expensive for most. Again. No different to anywhere in the western world other than the Australia price tends to keep a lid on its use.
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Old Jul 6th 2020, 12:58 am
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Default Re: Is Australia still the land of milk and honey?

It must depend on who you (general) mix with. Obviously there is a drug problem up here, we're no different to the rest of the world and in normal circumstances some parts are party central but it's mainly coke, weed and poppers etc. Not aware of a meth explosion. Meth isn't conducive to partying maybe??

As far as I can tell the vast majority of tradies around here are Aussies. Could be wrong, I have a very handy husband so not something I study other than in general.
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