Asylum seekers
Jul 21st 2003, 9:56 pm
#16
Be true to your skew
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Wanneroo, WA
Posts: 373
Bussie,
Also moving to Perth, but it may not be as safe as we'd like to think.
England and Wales have the second highest number of crime victims in the western world, according to a major international survey.
The 2000 International Crime Victims Survey, compiled by academics in the Netherlands, said 26% of people in England and Wales were victims of crime during 1999.
Only Australia had a higher figure at 30% while Scotland was far lower on 23% and Northern Ireland the lowest western nation surveyed on 15%.
The United States didn't even make the 'top 10' list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
Since Australia banned private ownership of most guns in 1996, crime has risen dramatically.
This advice is offered:
"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts."
Also moving to Perth, but it may not be as safe as we'd like to think.
England and Wales have the second highest number of crime victims in the western world, according to a major international survey.
The 2000 International Crime Victims Survey, compiled by academics in the Netherlands, said 26% of people in England and Wales were victims of crime during 1999.
Only Australia had a higher figure at 30% while Scotland was far lower on 23% and Northern Ireland the lowest western nation surveyed on 15%.
The United States didn't even make the 'top 10' list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
Since Australia banned private ownership of most guns in 1996, crime has risen dramatically.
This advice is offered:
"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts."
Jul 22nd 2003, 1:48 am
#17
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15
Re: Asylum seekers
Originally posted by Wilf
Have no fear, bwussie, there are plenty of asylum seekers - such as poms for example - downunder, so you will find a continuity of life that will be a great comfort when you are hiding under your duvet. There are peoples of all nations in Oz and most of them are worth more than the amateur estate agent poms that come off the boat here. Toughen up son, stabbings are an everyday occurrence here, especially if you plan to hold on to your dinner money.
Sincerely, good luck.
Have no fear, bwussie, there are plenty of asylum seekers - such as poms for example - downunder, so you will find a continuity of life that will be a great comfort when you are hiding under your duvet. There are peoples of all nations in Oz and most of them are worth more than the amateur estate agent poms that come off the boat here. Toughen up son, stabbings are an everyday occurrence here, especially if you plan to hold on to your dinner money.
Sincerely, good luck.
I have to agree with bussie on this one. The UK is already on it's knees with public services crumbling, property prices spiralling out of control and crime sharply on on the increase. There was an article in a newspaper last week saying that a school in London had asked parents to send their children to school with their own toilet rolls because money was so tight!
And yet in spite of this our wonderful Government is happy to allow 100,000's of illegal immigrants into the country, give them preferential council housing, grants to buy cars, televisions, furnish their new homes etc. Their children get priority places at local schools forcing other pupils to go to the next school several miles away. They get immediately placed on dental and doctor's registers, ahead of everyone else. The streets of London are bursting with eastern European beggers, thieves, muggers, drug dealers, pimps and every other kind of low life you can imagine.
The fact is that most of these people are NOT real refugees. They are NOT people who have bravely made the journey from a country in which they are being persecuted to a country where they can enjoy a peaceful life. Most of these people are on the make and are looking for a free ride. But it is a ride that the UK cannot afford.
The problem is that the UK Government is too limp-wristed to deal with it, unlike the Australian government who hold illegals offshore at gunpoint!
This is not a racist thing, it's about wanting to have a decent quality of life in return for working hard and paying taxes. People get very irrate when they see their taxes being handed out to anyone with a begging bowl at the same time that their own children have nothing to wipe their arses on!
As for the crime rates in Oz, they may well be higher than in London (I wouldn't be surprised coming from the decendants of a bunch of convicts), but I doubt it. National crime figures are rarely accurate and do not reflect the real world. They are numbers that have been tinkered around with by a bunch of bean counters to paint the picture that they want to paint. Most crime doesn't even get reported anymore as our Police are so hopeless.
All other things being equal, where would you rather live?
Jul 22nd 2003, 3:24 am
#18
(Jon) returning to NZ 04
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 816
I should know better than to rise to such drivel... but...
paulspell wrote: "The fact is that most of these people are NOT real refugees. They are NOT people who have bravely made the journey from a country in which they are being persecuted to a country where they can enjoy a peaceful life. Most of these people are on the make and are looking for a free ride. But it is a ride that the UK cannot afford."
Exactly what evidence do you have for such claims???!!! How do you know these people are not real refugees? Do you stand on street corners and quiz them? No, you're probably too busy assuming they can't speak English to even try....
Could you present the evidence for something you present as "fact" please?
I would like to ask if you have ever been to a developing nation or a warzone and seen what it's really like (and I don't mean a beach resort). Just because you've been lucky enough to have been born in a developed country, does not give you the right to hog it for yourself.
If your neighbour came knocking on your door in the middle of the night, asking for refuge from a rapist, would you turn her away? Perhaps you would, because turning away asylum seekers is exactly the same thing....
Maybe you should and live the life of one the people you call "not real refugees" for a while, that might open your eyes to the world a little...
paulspell wrote: "The fact is that most of these people are NOT real refugees. They are NOT people who have bravely made the journey from a country in which they are being persecuted to a country where they can enjoy a peaceful life. Most of these people are on the make and are looking for a free ride. But it is a ride that the UK cannot afford."
Exactly what evidence do you have for such claims???!!! How do you know these people are not real refugees? Do you stand on street corners and quiz them? No, you're probably too busy assuming they can't speak English to even try....
Could you present the evidence for something you present as "fact" please?
I would like to ask if you have ever been to a developing nation or a warzone and seen what it's really like (and I don't mean a beach resort). Just because you've been lucky enough to have been born in a developed country, does not give you the right to hog it for yourself.
If your neighbour came knocking on your door in the middle of the night, asking for refuge from a rapist, would you turn her away? Perhaps you would, because turning away asylum seekers is exactly the same thing....
Maybe you should and live the life of one the people you call "not real refugees" for a while, that might open your eyes to the world a little...
Jul 22nd 2003, 3:51 am
#19
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15
Exactly what evidence do you have for such claims???!!! How do you know these people are not real refugees? Do you stand on street corners and quiz them? No, you're probably too busy assuming they can't speak English to even try....
Could you present the evidence for something you present as "fact" please?
Could you present the evidence for something you present as "fact" please?
I would like to ask if you have ever been to a developing nation or a warzone and seen what it's really like (and I don't mean a beach resort).
Just because you've been lucky enough to have been born in a developed country, does not give you the right to hog it for yourself.
You are missing the point. I have already said that those people who are genuine refugees have my utmost respect for trying to find a better life for themselves and their families.
But the FACT is that only 3 out of every 10 asylum seekers in this country are from countries where they face real persecution, or where there is some form of civil war, or where they are under some kind of real threat. They are not made up figures they are published by the home office and have been widely reported in the press, no matter how much you may want to disagree with them.
It is the illegal scroungers who are entering this country for nothing more than economic reasons that cause resentment. How long do you think this country would remain prosperous if everyone from every poor under developed country came to live here? Our economy nor our infrastructure can cope.
Jul 22nd 2003, 4:02 am
#20
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15
If your neighbour came knocking on your door in the middle of the night, asking for refuge from a rapist, would you turn her away? Perhaps you would, because turning away asylum seekers is exactly the same thing....
Jul 22nd 2003, 4:14 am
#21
over the cuckoo's nest
Joined: May 2003
Location: Gold Coast Qld.
Posts: 301
Re: Asylum seekers
Originally posted by paulspell
I think you might find that the majority of asylum seekers in the UK enter the country illegally, rather than making the appropriate applications and doing things above board like most of the Perth poms. There's a big difference.
I have to agree with bussie on this one. The UK is already on it's knees with public services crumbling, property prices spiralling out of control and crime sharply on on the increase. There was an article in a newspaper last week saying that a school in London had asked parents to send their children to school with their own toilet rolls because money was so tight!
And yet in spite of this our wonderful Government is happy to allow 100,000's of illegal immigrants into the country, give them preferential council housing, grants to buy cars, televisions, furnish their new homes etc. Their children get priority places at local schools forcing other pupils to go to the next school several miles away. They get immediately placed on dental and doctor's registers, ahead of everyone else. The streets of London are bursting with eastern European beggers, thieves, muggers, drug dealers, pimps and every other kind of low life you can imagine.
The fact is that most of these people are NOT real refugees. They are NOT people who have bravely made the journey from a country in which they are being persecuted to a country where they can enjoy a peaceful life. Most of these people are on the make and are looking for a free ride. But it is a ride that the UK cannot afford.
The problem is that the UK Government is too limp-wristed to deal with it, unlike the Australian government who hold illegals offshore at gunpoint!
This is not a racist thing, it's about wanting to have a decent quality of life in return for working hard and paying taxes. People get very irrate when they see their taxes being handed out to anyone with a begging bowl at the same time that their own children have nothing to wipe their arses on!
As for the crime rates in Oz, they may well be higher than in London (I wouldn't be surprised coming from the decendants of a bunch of convicts), but I doubt it. National crime figures are rarely accurate and do not reflect the real world. They are numbers that have been tinkered around with by a bunch of bean counters to paint the picture that they want to paint. Most crime doesn't even get reported anymore as our Police are so hopeless.
All other things being equal, where would you rather live?
I think you might find that the majority of asylum seekers in the UK enter the country illegally, rather than making the appropriate applications and doing things above board like most of the Perth poms. There's a big difference.
I have to agree with bussie on this one. The UK is already on it's knees with public services crumbling, property prices spiralling out of control and crime sharply on on the increase. There was an article in a newspaper last week saying that a school in London had asked parents to send their children to school with their own toilet rolls because money was so tight!
And yet in spite of this our wonderful Government is happy to allow 100,000's of illegal immigrants into the country, give them preferential council housing, grants to buy cars, televisions, furnish their new homes etc. Their children get priority places at local schools forcing other pupils to go to the next school several miles away. They get immediately placed on dental and doctor's registers, ahead of everyone else. The streets of London are bursting with eastern European beggers, thieves, muggers, drug dealers, pimps and every other kind of low life you can imagine.
The fact is that most of these people are NOT real refugees. They are NOT people who have bravely made the journey from a country in which they are being persecuted to a country where they can enjoy a peaceful life. Most of these people are on the make and are looking for a free ride. But it is a ride that the UK cannot afford.
The problem is that the UK Government is too limp-wristed to deal with it, unlike the Australian government who hold illegals offshore at gunpoint!
This is not a racist thing, it's about wanting to have a decent quality of life in return for working hard and paying taxes. People get very irrate when they see their taxes being handed out to anyone with a begging bowl at the same time that their own children have nothing to wipe their arses on!
As for the crime rates in Oz, they may well be higher than in London (I wouldn't be surprised coming from the decendants of a bunch of convicts), but I doubt it. National crime figures are rarely accurate and do not reflect the real world. They are numbers that have been tinkered around with by a bunch of bean counters to paint the picture that they want to paint. Most crime doesn't even get reported anymore as our Police are so hopeless.
All other things being equal, where would you rather live?
In 100 years or so, the white persecuted minority will look back in history and ask serious questions about WW2.
Slater
Jul 22nd 2003, 4:23 am
#22
Cake or Death
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,173
Asylum Seekers
Slater
You say 100 years.....bloody hell you are very optomistic. It will happen much much sooner than that if this country continues along the path it is going. I would say that it is likely that there will be a serious backlash in years to come, sooner rather than later IMHO.
And Paulspell.............I completely agree with you. Your arguement is fair and reasonable. Lets face it, why oh why would anyone in their right mind consider allowing a huge influx of immigrants who contribute absolutely nothing to the economy. An economy I might add that is in serious trouble, just look at unemployment, Hospitals, Schools, Manufacture (what manufcature you may say) and a Trade deficit.
I fear for the future of this country.
You say 100 years.....bloody hell you are very optomistic. It will happen much much sooner than that if this country continues along the path it is going. I would say that it is likely that there will be a serious backlash in years to come, sooner rather than later IMHO.
And Paulspell.............I completely agree with you. Your arguement is fair and reasonable. Lets face it, why oh why would anyone in their right mind consider allowing a huge influx of immigrants who contribute absolutely nothing to the economy. An economy I might add that is in serious trouble, just look at unemployment, Hospitals, Schools, Manufacture (what manufcature you may say) and a Trade deficit.
I fear for the future of this country.
Jul 22nd 2003, 4:33 am
#23
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Formally Outback SA. Now Brighton SA
Posts: 138
Postings that jump on the asylum seeker bandwagon make me very very sad and savage at the same time. Racism will out itself very quickly it seems. Has anyone met victims of oppression, victims of torture and persecution, victims of war and seen the haunted looks in their eyes. Well I have - and you know what - it makes you feel very lucky to live in such a liberal country as the UK. Yes there are bogus asylum seekers as there are bogus dole bludgers and con artists the world over but that should not take away the suffering that some people have gone through and the courage and single mindedness that it has taken for them to make the treacherous journey - often at the mercy of merciless con merchants. All the ills of the UK cannot all be blamed on asylum seekers but the media - in its wisdom - has unleashed this rotten sentiment so that now the word asymum seeker conjures up some evil, murdering, pillaging, scrounging lowlife. I await the insults at leisure.
Elaine
Elaine
Jul 22nd 2003, 4:42 am
#24
over the cuckoo's nest
Joined: May 2003
Location: Gold Coast Qld.
Posts: 301
Originally posted by grubelice
Postings that jump on the asylum seeker bandwagon make me very very sad and savage at the same time. Racism will out itself very quickly it seems. Has anyone met victims of oppression, victims of torture and persecution, victims of war and seen the haunted looks in their eyes. Well I have - and you know what - it makes you feel very lucky to live in such a liberal country as the UK. Yes there are bogus asylum seekers as there are bogus dole bludgers and con artists the world over but that should not take away the suffering that some people have gone through and the courage and single mindedness that it has taken for them to make the treacherous journey - often at the mercy of merciless con merchants. All the ills of the UK cannot all be blamed on asylum seekers but the media - in its wisdom - has unleashed this rotten sentiment so that now the word asymum seeker conjures up some evil, murdering, pillaging, scrounging lowlife. I await the insults at leisure.
Elaine
Postings that jump on the asylum seeker bandwagon make me very very sad and savage at the same time. Racism will out itself very quickly it seems. Has anyone met victims of oppression, victims of torture and persecution, victims of war and seen the haunted looks in their eyes. Well I have - and you know what - it makes you feel very lucky to live in such a liberal country as the UK. Yes there are bogus asylum seekers as there are bogus dole bludgers and con artists the world over but that should not take away the suffering that some people have gone through and the courage and single mindedness that it has taken for them to make the treacherous journey - often at the mercy of merciless con merchants. All the ills of the UK cannot all be blamed on asylum seekers but the media - in its wisdom - has unleashed this rotten sentiment so that now the word asymum seeker conjures up some evil, murdering, pillaging, scrounging lowlife. I await the insults at leisure.
Elaine
Slater
Jul 22nd 2003, 4:45 am
#25
Cake or Death
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,173
Asylum Seekers.
Grubelice
Your comments are reasonable, and indeed fair. People who are persecuted should be helped. And the ills of this country cannot all be put at the door of the UK immigration policy, but you also cannot ignore the fact that one of the real issues this country faces is the problem of how and WHEN are the (any) government going to handle the 80% of those who have no real justification to be here.
It has nothing to do with racism. It is simple logic, economics, common sense. Call it what you (or I) will.
This country has some real problems. It is expensive to live here, becoming overcrowded, together with the other issues I commented on.......Schools, Hospitals, Trade....etc. You cannot simply ignore these issues and sweep them under the carpet. What do you do.......just continue to let people in?
No insults intended........
Gary
Your comments are reasonable, and indeed fair. People who are persecuted should be helped. And the ills of this country cannot all be put at the door of the UK immigration policy, but you also cannot ignore the fact that one of the real issues this country faces is the problem of how and WHEN are the (any) government going to handle the 80% of those who have no real justification to be here.
It has nothing to do with racism. It is simple logic, economics, common sense. Call it what you (or I) will.
This country has some real problems. It is expensive to live here, becoming overcrowded, together with the other issues I commented on.......Schools, Hospitals, Trade....etc. You cannot simply ignore these issues and sweep them under the carpet. What do you do.......just continue to let people in?
No insults intended........
Gary
Jul 22nd 2003, 4:57 am
#26
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Currambine WA
Posts: 280
lol thought this would open a can of worms when I wrote it
Considering I live in a small community I thought this was a big news story
not taking anything away from the refugees they all seem to be doing very well for them selves as I always see them in nice new clothes new Nike trainers and mobile phones in there back pocket
And none of them working
Considering I live in a small community I thought this was a big news story
not taking anything away from the refugees they all seem to be doing very well for them selves as I always see them in nice new clothes new Nike trainers and mobile phones in there back pocket
And none of them working
Last edited by bussie; Jul 22nd 2003 at 5:09 am.
Jul 22nd 2003, 5:54 am
#27
I Know What's Going On!
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: On The Outside Looking In!
Posts: 1,499
Originally posted by grubelice
Postings that jump on the asylum seeker bandwagon make me very very sad and savage at the same time. Racism will out itself very quickly it seems.
Elaine
Postings that jump on the asylum seeker bandwagon make me very very sad and savage at the same time. Racism will out itself very quickly it seems.
Elaine
Unfortunately, it's people like you who shout 'racism' at the drop of a hat, that prevents people from discussing this issue the way they should be able to.
Read all the posts again. Apart from PB's Vietnamese drug gangs, not one person has mentioned a single 'race'. They are talking about assylum seekers (illegal or not) in general, the rising crime rates related to it and the inept British laws that allow this fiasco to go on.
Encarta Dictionary defines racism as:
"animosity towards other races: prejudice or animosity against people who belong to other races".
Nobody has mentioned anybody's race, it doesn't matter where they come from, it's what they do when they get here that people are angry about. Please don't jump on the 'Politicical-correctness-gone-mad' bandwagon and allow people to discuss
(a) rising crime rates and
(b) the Government's stupidity over assylum laws
I'm sure even you cannot deny these two facts.
Jul 22nd 2003, 7:45 am
#28
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
Immigrants!!!
Just my own opinion but isn't it a little hypocritical to have a go at immigrants illegal or otherwise for wanting to better themselves? Surely that's what everyone on this bloody forum is doing.
I feel a lot of you will have different views on the subject when you've been an immigrant in your chosen countries for a while!!!!!
I'm not a bleeding heart just a prospective immigrant the same as we all are.
I feel a lot of you will have different views on the subject when you've been an immigrant in your chosen countries for a while!!!!!
I'm not a bleeding heart just a prospective immigrant the same as we all are.
Jul 22nd 2003, 7:57 am
#29
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2002
Location: brisbane
Posts: 1,020
Im with bussie on this one ,and yes before you shout jandjuk i am am qualified to say so,i dont interview them on street corners,they are far too clever for that.I see the ones that present themselves to social services as unaccompanied minors claiming to be under 18,as they get an even better deal if they claim to be a child .My job is to do an age assessment,and i can honestly say that some are a joke and are taking the p as they are clearly not 14,15 16 but in their mid 20s.
we also have others claiming benefits and blantantly working,i could go on and on and on .
So dont get too worked up by their plight as i would say ,in my opinion ,80% of the ones presenting to us are economic migrants and are demanding more ,and getting more than your average uk youngster estranged from their parents.
donna
we also have others claiming benefits and blantantly working,i could go on and on and on .
So dont get too worked up by their plight as i would say ,in my opinion ,80% of the ones presenting to us are economic migrants and are demanding more ,and getting more than your average uk youngster estranged from their parents.
donna
Jul 22nd 2003, 9:34 am
#30
over the cuckoo's nest
Joined: May 2003
Location: Gold Coast Qld.
Posts: 301
Re: Immigrants!!!
Originally posted by cresta57
Just my own opinion but isn't it a little hypocritical to have a go at immigrants illegal or otherwise for wanting to better themselves? Surely that's what everyone on this bloody forum is doing.
I feel a lot of you will have different views on the subject when you've been an immigrant in your chosen countries for a while!!!!!
I'm not a bleeding heart just a prospective immigrant the same as we all are.
Just my own opinion but isn't it a little hypocritical to have a go at immigrants illegal or otherwise for wanting to better themselves? Surely that's what everyone on this bloody forum is doing.
I feel a lot of you will have different views on the subject when you've been an immigrant in your chosen countries for a while!!!!!
I'm not a bleeding heart just a prospective immigrant the same as we all are.
Get real how much more can we take.
Slater
