Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Jul 15th 2005, 1:29 pm
#46
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,266
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by Piccolo
The article said 10 people shot not murdered. I do not agree with the present SA government treatment or lack of treatment of HIV patients. As Aids has now been around for over 20 years can you tell me what the old government did to prevent the disease or treat it?
Chatted to Zimbabwean. nurse yesterday and asked if her people were affected by the slum clearance. Her reply was that it was only the strteet people!
Chatted to Zimbabwean. nurse yesterday and asked if her people were affected by the slum clearance. Her reply was that it was only the strteet people!
The first cases were in the mid-80's if memory serves me, and just like everywhere else in the world, gay white men were believed to be the only carriers of the disease.
The point is that the current govt has been around for over 11 years now; the years in which more data etc.. has become available, and yet, what have they done? Denied HIV causes Aids for years.
And on top of the denying, they SHOOT peaceful protestors who are protesting the fact that they're doing bugger all to help anyone with it.
Chatted to Zimbabwean. nurse yesterday and asked if her people were affected by the slum clearance. Her reply was that it was only the strteet people!
Saturday 18th June 2005
Dear Family and Friends,
I am in deep shock at the situation in Marondera as the government's "Operation Restore Order" to cleanse the town has gone into its third week. Everywhere you look you see only desperation, fear and shock on people's faces. Everyone is saying the same thing : "But why are they doing this to us, what are we going to do, where can we go, we are going to die." On a short drive around Marondera town the aftermath is there for all who care to see. There are mounds of rubble on street corners, stacks of timber, tin and asbestos piled on road sides, dismantled pre-fabricated houses leaning against trees and people staring in shock at what was there one day and gone the next.
In a piece of grassy waste land near a big supermarket I saw a woman sitting surrounded by her life's possessions on Friday morning. A battered kettle, a plastic basin and a small pile of clothes tied up in a blanket. In the town you can see many people still desperately looking for somewhere to stay after their homes have been demolished. Young women carrying suitcases with babies strapped on their backs, calling to others for advice - "where can we go", "do you know of anywhere". On one street corner I saw a man sitting on top of a pile of rubble and next to him in the dust and filth were a battered cardboard suitcase, a rolled up grass sleeping mat and a small wardrobe. Another man passed me on the main road pushing a supermarket trolley which was crammed with his life's possessions - pots and pans, a tin bucket, a thin foam mattress and a threadbare grey blanket.
At the bus stop on the outskirts of Marondera town, at least a hundred people wait, surging out into the road as every vehicle approaches, desperate for a lift. After three months of chronic fuel shortages lifts are few and far between and most people travel only when they have to.
This week on state owned television there was film footage of this "cleansing" operation starting on farms. Peasant farmers, surrounded by their furniture, clothes and harvested crops, being evicted from the farms that the government seized from white commercial farmers. This week there was also the news that one of just a few commercial farmers left in Marondera was forced off his land. He had to leave behind the export crop of flowers and the fields of newly germinated winter wheat.
It is ironic that while hundreds of thousands of people continue to be forced into poverty in Zimbabwe, pop stars and politicians are planning to "make poverty history" in Africa and world leaders talk about forgiving us our debt. There seems no sense to this whatsoever. Please keep the utterly desperate plight of hundreds of thousands of displaced Zimbabweans in your minds and prayers.
With love, cathy
Dear Family and Friends,
I am in deep shock at the situation in Marondera as the government's "Operation Restore Order" to cleanse the town has gone into its third week. Everywhere you look you see only desperation, fear and shock on people's faces. Everyone is saying the same thing : "But why are they doing this to us, what are we going to do, where can we go, we are going to die." On a short drive around Marondera town the aftermath is there for all who care to see. There are mounds of rubble on street corners, stacks of timber, tin and asbestos piled on road sides, dismantled pre-fabricated houses leaning against trees and people staring in shock at what was there one day and gone the next.
In a piece of grassy waste land near a big supermarket I saw a woman sitting surrounded by her life's possessions on Friday morning. A battered kettle, a plastic basin and a small pile of clothes tied up in a blanket. In the town you can see many people still desperately looking for somewhere to stay after their homes have been demolished. Young women carrying suitcases with babies strapped on their backs, calling to others for advice - "where can we go", "do you know of anywhere". On one street corner I saw a man sitting on top of a pile of rubble and next to him in the dust and filth were a battered cardboard suitcase, a rolled up grass sleeping mat and a small wardrobe. Another man passed me on the main road pushing a supermarket trolley which was crammed with his life's possessions - pots and pans, a tin bucket, a thin foam mattress and a threadbare grey blanket.
At the bus stop on the outskirts of Marondera town, at least a hundred people wait, surging out into the road as every vehicle approaches, desperate for a lift. After three months of chronic fuel shortages lifts are few and far between and most people travel only when they have to.
This week on state owned television there was film footage of this "cleansing" operation starting on farms. Peasant farmers, surrounded by their furniture, clothes and harvested crops, being evicted from the farms that the government seized from white commercial farmers. This week there was also the news that one of just a few commercial farmers left in Marondera was forced off his land. He had to leave behind the export crop of flowers and the fields of newly germinated winter wheat.
It is ironic that while hundreds of thousands of people continue to be forced into poverty in Zimbabwe, pop stars and politicians are planning to "make poverty history" in Africa and world leaders talk about forgiving us our debt. There seems no sense to this whatsoever. Please keep the utterly desperate plight of hundreds of thousands of displaced Zimbabweans in your minds and prayers.
With love, cathy
Sad, isn't it?
Last edited by izibear; Jul 15th 2005 at 1:39 pm.
Jul 15th 2005, 1:57 pm
#47
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2005
Location: recently returned expat
Posts: 98
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by sa2oz
Only shot, so that makes it OK?
As far as I can discover these drugs have only become acceptable in the last 10 years or so. The old govmnt were never offered anything for free like your new Minister of Health
As far as I can discover these drugs have only become acceptable in the last 10 years or so. The old govmnt were never offered anything for free like your new Minister of Health
I did not say only shot made it OK. Just that after reading 10 murdered I looked for it on the news and could not find it.
In Uganda all over the country there are bill posts warning of Aids and the need to take precautions. I never saw any signs in South Africa when I visited.
Jul 15th 2005, 4:37 pm
#48
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,266
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by Pablo
Rina Venter, who was the last Minister of Health under the old Nat. government, commented recently that all the plans they made prior to 1994 to fight Aids were scrapped by the incoming ANC government.
One of the worst examples is BEE. So many folk who had successful companies employing hundreds if not thousands sometimes, have closed the companies down, (many of them going for two or three decades), because they've been told they have to give away 51% of shares to a minority or else....millions have lost their jobs over the last few years due to this labor practice. I don't blame them for closing the companies. I mean, if I worked my butt off for years to get it off the ground, especially in a dog eat dog economy that is S.A., there is no way in hell I'm giving up control of my company.
But bravo for Mbeki's brother, who speaks out against the current SA government's excesses. How Thabo must hate him!
Pablo
Pablo
Jul 20th 2005, 9:42 am
#49
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Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 345
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by Scouse
That is rich, coming from somebody with Canadian PR as well as Australian PR.
I think one of 'the old racists' is called sunlover.
I think one of 'the old racists' is called sunlover.
Without wishing to justify myself to you or anyone else, the reason I have both Canadian and Australian PR status is because I have been transferred by my American employer to different parts of the world over the past 10 years. My emigrating has had nothing to do with racism and everything to do with my career and simply wanting to see the rest of the world.
You may also have read that we intend returning to South Africa as soon as we have enough money to be financially independent there.
In all my time overseas I have never once run down or criticised South Africa. I just cannot understand why so many people who leave feel that they have to justify their decision by doing so ?
It's sad that you have to make yourself feel better about your decision by constantly dwelling on negativity instead of recognising the many advancements and improvements that HAVE occurred in South Africa - the adoption of basic human rights for one !
Jul 20th 2005, 9:57 am
#50
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by Sunlover
In all my time overseas I have never once run down or criticised South Africa.
Assuming you do accept that a person is justified in criticising, which people are permitted to do this and which, in your view, are not? In other words, what qualifies or disqualifies a critic to criticise?
I note that it is relatively easy for anyone to live in SA, or indeed anywhere, if he has an independent income, and is thus untouched by political or social realities that affect the ability of the common people to earn a living and survive. A kind of semi-detached existence, and, I daresay, much to be envied.
But why must you wait until you have an independent income before returning to SA? Isn't that, well, rather elitist of you? Can you not leave your American employer and work for a South African company? Wouldn't that be nobler of you? Doesn't your country need you NOW? Why wait, when you could be back there doing your bit?
Best wishes, Pablo
Jul 20th 2005, 10:17 am
#51
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Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 345
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by Pablo
Is all criticism of SA unacceptable in your view, or just certain types of criticism? Furthermore, is it that you see nothing that merits criticism, or that, seeing it, you decide to remain quiet about it?
Assuming you do accept that a person is justified in criticising, which people are permitted to do this and which, in your view, are not? In other words, what qualifies or disqualifies a critic to criticise?
I note that it is relatively easy for anyone to live in SA, or indeed anywhere, if he has an independent income, and is thus untouched by political or social realities that affect the ability of the common people to earn a living and survive. A kind of semi-detached existence, and, I daresay, much to be envied.
But why must you wait until you have an independent income before returning to SA? Isn't that, well, rather elitist of you? Can you not leave your American employer and work for a South African company? Wouldn't that be nobler of you? Doesn't your country need you NOW? Why wait, when you could be back there doing your bit?
Best wishes, Pablo
Assuming you do accept that a person is justified in criticising, which people are permitted to do this and which, in your view, are not? In other words, what qualifies or disqualifies a critic to criticise?
I note that it is relatively easy for anyone to live in SA, or indeed anywhere, if he has an independent income, and is thus untouched by political or social realities that affect the ability of the common people to earn a living and survive. A kind of semi-detached existence, and, I daresay, much to be envied.
But why must you wait until you have an independent income before returning to SA? Isn't that, well, rather elitist of you? Can you not leave your American employer and work for a South African company? Wouldn't that be nobler of you? Doesn't your country need you NOW? Why wait, when you could be back there doing your bit?
Best wishes, Pablo
Suffice to say that we all have family and friends who still live in South Africa. Constant criticism is never going to bring back the "old" SA as much as you (not I) may wish that it would. However what it does do is discourage investment in SA and Tourism to SA and THAT hurts everyone in South Africa including our families and friends.
You say that being financially independent will insulate me from the realities of living in South Africa ? When in reality our reason for wanting to be financially independent is so that when we return we can buy a South African business and provide jobs. I consider that to be more of a contribution to SA than simply becoming another employee of a South African company and taking a job that someone else could have.
Last edited by Sunlover; Jul 20th 2005 at 10:19 am. Reason: Spelling
Jul 20th 2005, 10:29 am
#52
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by Sunlover
Suffice to say that we all have family and friends who still live in South Africa. Constant criticism is never going to bring back the "old" SA as much as you (not I) may wish that it would. However what it does do is discourage investment in SA and Tourism to SA and THAT hurts everyone in South Africa including our families and friends.
From what you say, it sounds as if you believed criticism should be suppressed in order to protect investment and tourism. Now *that* is reminiscent of the "old" South Africa.
Best wishes, Pablo
Jul 20th 2005, 10:43 am
#53
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 107
Re: Trade your Brit passport for S African passport??
Originally Posted by Sunlover
I really don't intend to get into a long philosophical debate regarding the morals of criticism Pablo.
Suffice to say that we all have family and friends who still live in South Africa. Constant criticism is never going to bring back the "old" SA as much as you (not I) may wish that it would. However what it does do is discourage investment in SA and Tourism to SA and THAT hurts everyone in South Africa including our families and friends.
You say that being financially independent will insulate me from the realities of living in South Africa ? When in reality our reason for wanting to be financially independent is so that when we return we can buy a South African business and provide jobs. I consider that to be more of a contribution to SA than simply becoming another employee of a South African company and taking a job that someone else could have.
Suffice to say that we all have family and friends who still live in South Africa. Constant criticism is never going to bring back the "old" SA as much as you (not I) may wish that it would. However what it does do is discourage investment in SA and Tourism to SA and THAT hurts everyone in South Africa including our families and friends.
You say that being financially independent will insulate me from the realities of living in South Africa ? When in reality our reason for wanting to be financially independent is so that when we return we can buy a South African business and provide jobs. I consider that to be more of a contribution to SA than simply becoming another employee of a South African company and taking a job that someone else could have.
