Mitzyboy

I come on here on a daily basis as a mod and quite honestly it really depresses me. I've never contemplated going to SA mainly because of stories I'd heard over the years, but is it really that bad!!

I don't suppose there will be any answers to this post by the looks of it, but do you have anything at all positive to say about South Africa?

Kitten24

Of course, there are many good things to say about the beautiful country and wonderful weather. The people are so friendly, compared to living in the UK, and more importantly it's where my family and friends are.

Unfortunately the cons outweigh the pro's for me.

TouristTrap

It has wonderful landscapes.
The smell of the earth after the rains.
The chirping of the birds which I don't get here much.
The mountains especially the Cape and the Drakensberg.
Great ethnic food.
My family and friends.
I would say the national parks, but I personally don't quite like them after growing up in a country where the animals roamed freely.

That's about it as far as I'm concerned.

Now, if they did something about the crime and legal system, plus tossed the corrupt government from the top down, we might be able to focus on the list I mentioned a tad more.

And yes, the crime is THAT bad. It is a shadow that has been cast over the entire country. What you read on here and the reports you read in the papers every day are but a smidgeon of what has happened - the vast majority of crime does not get reported, both in the papers and to the utter useless cops who have private security firms protecting their stations for gawd's sakes! Tegwyn's nephew got shot in an armed robbery where some people died and it didn't even make the papers.

Kitten24

I second the food. Nothing here compares to the wonderful food we have in SA, even the meat here tastes different.

You forgot to mention the spectacular storms we have. I haven't seen any decent rainstorms since we moved to the UK. I miss the thunder and lightning of the Highveld storms we used to have.

TouristTrap

Ah, I left that one because I happen to live in a city with similar weather to Joeys - lightning storms galore in the late afternoons in summer.

But, I was only mentioning this to the one kid this morning, I miss the soft rains we used to get all night, after those magical storms and to be awakened in the morning by the chirping of the birds in the garden, everything fresh and the wonderful smell of the soil. Priceless that

The food here tastes like awful. I keep us supplied in Ceres, for instance. We have a great ethnic gastronomic diversity over there.

ededed

The quality of life - having a big house with a pool and affordable domestic help. The great nightlife, inexpensive restaurants (by international standards) and the scenery - especially in the national parks.

Golf - cheap and world class courses everywhere you go.

Beer, petrol and fags are cheap (unless you have always lived here!) but by European standards, they practically give 'em away!

Of course there are downsides - as there are everywhere. The dangers here are very real - and the service and support from government offices is almost hilarious in it's inadequacies. You have to make your choices in life. I choose not to be taxed to death, rained on, and surrounded by fat miserable Brits wearing grey and never going outside. It's better to die standing up than live kneeling down. (a mantra I will keep repeating until I get whacked at the traffic lights!)

Kitten24

Ah, yes. The standard of living is definitely better when it comes to housing and cars etc... well it used to be. We were quite shocked at the prices of things when we were home in February. Everything seems to have gone up so much, except salaries of course.

Then again we celebrate my 30th, while we were home, at an Ocean Basket with family and my best friends. My husband paid the entire bill as a pressie to me and we were pleasantly surprised to find that a huge meal for 9 adults and two children, plus drinks etc. only came up to £70!!

Campbells

Let me ask you a question. Are you looking to turn the forum around so you can attract advertisers from South Africa perhaps? Obviously in such a scenario the forum would not be attractive.

To answer your question, yes it really is that bad.

Another question for you. Do you think that ALL the horror stories you hear CONSTANTLY in the media re SA are made up?

I have no problem saying (and have said) that I sill love the country but it has become a crazy place and labelled in most cases the most crime ridden country in the world.

There is no way to soften the cold hard facts and it is just a matter of time, bit like apartheid had its sell-by date coming. Most folk are watching the Zim situation as a meltdown there will ripple in SA with huge impact, as WILL when Mandela passes.

Sorry to hear that it depresses you I guess it must be how compassionate people feel when they see pictures of Ethiopia or Somalia etc etc. I guess it is also like watching Schindler’s List and asking if it really happened.

I would say that most of the people on this forum that say the things that you find depressive have lived in SA and want to tell it like it is but as with the holocaust there were many that didn’t want to believe it WAS happening .

I hope I have put this over without offending or depressing you.

Have a great weekend.

Bianx

Its not like that. Its just when you are constantly feaing for your life, the bad kinda stays on your mind more than the good. I love South Africa, honestly I do. But I cant live here anymore. Im already trying to get out

Pablo

I second that, Ededed: it's better to die standing up than live kneeling down.

That is why I have always said to people who want to emigrate to SA, inform yourself properly, and, if you're prepared to live with the risks, then go ahead and give it a go. Because I agree with all the positive things that everyone else has said in this thread about SA - the space, the smell of the earth, the big skies, the wonderful rains, the vast sense of potential, the openhearted people. South Africa is the only place I know where the tourist photos actually match up to the reality.

And, as I have also said before, there are certain things you will not understand until you are living there - not on holiday, not just visiting, but living there, moved lock stock and barrel. (As you, Ededed, are doing now, so I guess you'll understand what I mean.)

I was a huge supporter of SA when I was there, and strove to make things work. I left for reasons wholly unconnected with the crime and bad government. But only a fool will deny that these bad things are true.

People should go, if they go with open eyes, and have weighed up the risks rather than merely pretending those risks don't exist. As I have also said, if you intend to emigrate, don't burn all your bridges. Just look at the number of Poms that just can't hack it in Australia (as you can see elsewhere on this Expat forum) where everything is absolutely fine and dandy compared to the difficulties of SA.

I think you have to have lived in Africa to understand what many posters are talking about on this list. You also have to understand how it feels to see country after country in Africa gain its "independence" and then plunge straight into the abyss. When you have lived through that first hand - Zanzibar, Ghana, Congo, Mozambique, Angola, Zambia, Tanzania, Kenya etc -you get to know the signs; you get to spot the empty rhetoric; you get to sniff out the lies.

You have to have lived in Africa to understand the gross hypocrisy of the West when it comes to Africa - the West is far more racist than any caricature of a fat Afrikaner boer that the West so much likes to sneer at and mock. Make poverty history? I could scream at the superficial glibness of it! These people have no idea.

Nuff said.

Pablo

ededed

Well said Pablo, well said. Spot on.

Tegwyn

Kudus again Pablo. Mitzyboy, do you really think that we all want to sit here and bash the country for the pleasure of it? Unlike other posters on the rest of the BE forums, you are not reading about expats that don't like the new country, bored with the new situation, and don't like the people/culture/job/etc.etc. These are people that have been forced to make life altering changes to protect themselves and their loved ones. Let me tell you that most posters on this site show remarkable restraint. Follow any of the multitude of S.A. expat sites and you will be shocked at the amount of rage, bitterness, heartache and angst that these people are going through.

If reading all this depresses you, imagine what we must be feeling! I want my family members alive and safe. Not asking for special privileges or favours. Just want a functioning government that takes care of her citizenry. Simply what most of us take for granted from a civilized country.

Nothing would make me happier than to tell someone to go over and enjoy one of the most spectacular places on this planet and highlight all those amazing points of interest to you - safely. It is that nasty little element namely crime that contaminates anything positive.

As the days of sanctions were placed to force political changes upon the old regime, I would happily see the same sanctions and pressures take place against the ANC to force them into action. We need to shout it out to the world until we are heard. Then, I will happily switch my train of thought to more mundane things to complain about.

Kitten24

I would love to go to bed at night not worrying about whether everyone is safe. Everytime I leave to come back here I can't help but be scared that this might be the last time I see someone in my family. I would love to open sms's from family members without getting that sinking feeling that this will be more bad news.

I sit here so far away and feel helpless and scared, knowing that they don't even tell me half of what is going on there as they don't want me to worry unnecessarily.

Reading some of the threads on this forum makes me want to cry and at the same time I am angry. Angry at the people who choose to pooh-pooh our posts as exaggerations. You sit there behind your desk being smug and judgemental, yet it's a subject you know nothing.

In the world crime statistics South Africa is second only to Columbia when it comes to Murders (per capita) by country. Per capita, South Africa has the most assaults, rapes, and murders with firearms.

Only a fool would ignore the facts.

Mitzyboy

No I have no alternative reason for asking the question apart from genuinely wanting to know. There has been so much written of the bad side on this forum that I was genuinely interested to see what attracted you there in the first place ........ sorry for expressing an interest

I really cant be bothered to reply to the other inferences in your post about denial

Tegwyn

Actually I'm happy you asked. If anything, I do understand your questions. Please do not take the anger personally. The emotions you read are not directed at those who question, but those who deny. It is hard for folks to grasp the magnitude of the pressures people living like this face.