NEGATIVES
 

I dont mean to put a spanner in the works but although there is problems in SA.................there are also positives that cant be quantified by material stuff(weather, lifestyle, stunning countryside etc etc).

I am stunned to read that the balance of this forum is mostly negatives and if i didnt know SA (which i do), id think it would be safer in Iraq or Afganistan (i know them too)


Can we redress the balance a little pleeez ? :blink:

Re: NEGATIVES
 

Certainy Gary, you start.
Having lived there a lot longer and more recently (as opposed to a holiday every two years) let me agree with you regarding the Weather,stunning scenery etc. Let me also agree with the friendliness of most of the people and the fact that there is or will be a lot of potential for the country if they resolve the high crime rate, Eskom,Water, and Health problems.
Although I will agree that Secunda and Nelspruit may only be dangerous if you come across elephants in comparison to Gauteng and lately Natal.
Nelspruit happens to be on the route that a lot of illegal Mocambican refugees
take to Egoli, I'm thinking particularly of my Cousin at Marloth Park this last year and the uncomfortable night they spent tied up.But, Hey,she did'nt get raped,he did'nt get shot, whats to complain about.
I also assume that as an about to be ex military man, you, as I did, figure old age,cunning and in my case 13 years of fairly active duty is going to beat some little snot hands down.
Jose! he was soo cool, he stayed well out of reach and he kept his firing lines clear at all times, when they started dragging my wife towards the bushes (some anniversary dinner!!) three of them kept me in a triangle.Fortunately, they realised that time was few and stopped.
so Bud, go and try and recapture your lost youth ,it's a figment of your imagination. but dont try and tell me to NOT respond to press reports when I still have family in there who CANT get out.
Deal?
PS:Great Weather does'nt help if you cant go out much in it.

Re: NEGATIVES
 

Thanks for going there Daxk, I was tempted to be the first to respond but thought against it. I read on the intro that gary plans to start a paving manufacturing biz on his return. Hopefully he can afford to buy enough generators to power the plant. If Eskom can't keep the mines working, you have to wonder just what priority the paving plant will get. :D

On the positive, weather is wonderful. Countryside quite beautiful if you look past the rubbish that is blowing around everywhere. Lifestyle, fabulous if you are into bars and alarms and security gates and locked doors and ... Oh I could go on but why bother? He's going to have a blast if he is an adrenaline junkie. Hope the op is into braai's and dining by candlelight. May well be a frequent event. :rofl:

Re: NEGATIVES
 

Any business enterprise considering manufacturing start ups in S.A. may want to hang on for at least the next 7 years. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...4542399C434919 That is - of course, if one hopes to make it a viable company for the long term. ;) No matter which way one looks at it, you're buggered without electricity.

Re: NEGATIVES
 

Firstly I would just like to say that I love living in Cape Town and the life style here is second to none! My heart sings every morning when I drive to work (along the M3 to Tokai) and see the beautiful mountain range in the background.There is a certain quality of light in the mornings that you never see in Europe. Nothing is nicer than going for sundowners on the rocks at Clifton beach and enjoying a gorgeous sunset with friends and family or being able to go pop out for weekend hikes, kayaking and surfing. The people are warm and friendly and we have space to breathe. I have never been burgled, mugged,attacked or hijacked and there are a lot of people living here who have never been a victim of crime. Contrary to popular belief you will not find murder and mayhem on the streets. And yes some of the comments on this board do sound very harsh.

Having said that; The high crime rate is never the less a reality and although there are burglaries, car break-ins and muggings in every city in the world, it is the level of Violence here that is exceptional and second to none; and that is what is very worrying for us as a society. Most people here are “grateful” that they were not home while their house was being burgled as the likelihood of getting shot or raped is extremely high. And that goes for people of all races here, whether you are white, coloured or african. The violent nature of crime here is what is so horrendous.

I do not live in a gated, high security community. I do not have motion detectors and flood lights in my garden, but I do have strong burglar bars on every window, security gates on all the doors, an alarm system and a contract with a security company. Those are the basics that every South African household should have. That you need to live like this behind bars is a sad state of affairs. That these bars are not mainly meant to keep our material possessions safe but to keep US safe is even sadder! A woman alone in a house that has been broken into, does have to be very afraid of being raped, that is the reality.

Although not scared for my life, when I am out and about, it is prudent to be vigilant. I always drive with my doors locked and close my windows if I am at roads with lots of robots. (traffic lights) I am always aware of areas where hi-jacking may occur. When driving at night and I am at a robot, I usually leave a space between myself and the car ahead so that I can pull out and drive away if the need arises. (And it never has) When I come home after dark, I always look around and scan the area for shady characters lurking about before I park/get out of the car. If I see someone whose face I don’t like whilst driving home along my street, I pass by and drive around the block a few times. Unfortunately the need to be prudent and vigilant is such a part of daily South African life that we don’t even realize we are doing it. And I am tired of living like this.

The violence in our society is a reality we all live with, and although many South Africans have not been victims and that a large part of this extreme violence takes place in poor areas, does not mean that it is not there! We read about people getting killed and raped on a daily basis and we are actually becoming so desensitized it is scary - and that also is very worrisome. Yes come to South Africa, you will have a great time and probably never be affected by the violence on a personal level. But if you come to this country to settle and make a life for yourself you also have a moral obligation to make this society a better place. I am tired of people coming to South Africa for the great weather and open spaces, buying themselves huge houses in affluent suburbs, and giving nothing back. (investing some money in SA business and contributing to the economy by just being here does not count) Do something, join a community service program, engage with the people, help teach young disadvantaged children to read, teach disadvantaged communities to grow their own vegetables, help to empower people. Help to stop violence and crime at a grassroots level so that the next generation does not have to live in fear. Join your community action campaigns to petition the government to invest in better training and facilities for the police. It doesn't matter what you do as long as you do something to make South Africa a better (and safer) place for everyone.

Re: NEGATIVES
 

Over to you, Gary! :rofl:

Re: NEGATIVES
 

A very good post PatM, thanks for the input :)

Re: NEGATIVES
 

I guess its also alot to do with where you live.....thats why ill never go back to kempton park. I am prepared to take the leap. The universal language seems to be 9mm.

Thanks for the input, my toes are freezing, the kids have got colds again and its raining....................lovely !!!!!!!!!

Re: NEGATIVES
 

absolutely!! it has a lot to do with where you live, viz: do you live in SA or somewhere else.
PatM just did a superb post.
Not everyone climbing off a plane in Sa gets followed home and robbed, just some of them.
Not everyone will experience an armed robbery,hi-jacking or rape, just some of them, just as some of them wont survive it either.
Fellow called 6000 made a point here that statistically you're one of 48 million so your chances of being a Them should be low.
Should be but a large number of posters on this and other forums have had a them moment, either personally or very close friends and family.
Yesterday, chatting to a friend who'se just spent 3 weeks in the berg,everything fine, had a great time ,casually mentioned that another friend called Des T,lives in Riverclub,returned home after the holidays about two weeks ago, and walked in on his house burglary,
Everyone stayed calm,but they could'nt get his wifes engagemnt and wedding ring off so they tried to bite her finger off, it's pretty mangled,and she's on anti retroviral, but as they're alive it's never going to appear in the even the local press.

From your comment I assume you figure to be carrying at least a 9mm??
My armed robbery and my Mugging got me thoroughly frisked, waist,under arm and ankle to see if I was carrying.
They did'nt find my belt buckle knife but when there's a gun at your wife,childs,your own head, you realise you cant move faster than 1440 feet per second and a lot of them use AK's or R5's.

I dont care if you go, friend, no skin off my nose,I do care when you try and dismiss whats happening there with feel good weather stories.
Yes, it's raining here in Ireland too, but my doors are unlocked and my child can play outside or even walk down to the shops when it is'nt.

You should get your blood circulation checked, you've forgotten that SA's winters are as cold as the UK.

Re: NEGATIVES
 

I accept all the replies but the real point that i was trying to make was that anyone that has not been to SA would presume that at some stage they will be a victim of serious crime if they read all the related forums here....its not the case. And yes....Secunda in the winter is very cold but the sun is out and its dry.
I will of course leave a large chunk of my investments here in the uk and hope it doesnt do a "Northern Rock".
Better to try and fail than not to try at all.

R+

Re: NEGATIVES
 

I think you need to make a distinction between South Africans who know the score and still choose to go back there, and others who think that emigrating to South Africa is no more problematical than going to the south of France or to Spain.

It is, after all, very easy after a happy week's holiday in Cape Town to be lulled into thinking that South Africa is just a sunny, spaceous version of southern Europe. It isn't.

Re: NEGATIVES
 

I think that someone going to cape town would have this thought, but ive never been there. i am going to Secunda. i go every year, sometimes for work and often stay with an SA friend who moved from the hysteria of joburg to Secunda 10 years ago.

We could start a uk negative thread based only on what goes on in parts of London, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds etc......but that wouldnt be accurate would it ?

I am suprised that some South Africans are so negative.

Re: NEGATIVES
 

When I hear people complain about lack of "balance" or "negativity" I often wonder what would represent a "balanced" appraisal of the Nazi death camps, or a "positive" appraisal of Pol Pot or Idi Amin.

I wonder too whether those who predicated what in fact has happened in Zimbabwe, or, now, alas, in Kenya, were "negative" and "unbalanced", or merely accurate.

In my experience, those on this list who have complained about so-called negativity just want to silence criticism.

As for my earlier comments about Cape Town and holidays, it was a general observation on people's failure properly to inform themselves, not particularly directly at your move to Secunda - for which I wish you luck.

Re: NEGATIVES
 

Thanks for that pablo, I didnt realise that SA was in a situation comparable to the dictators etc that you mention......yet.

I am taking SA as it is now, not wanting to give it up as so many have done and continue to do. i do not want to hold anyone back but are you telling me that all of SA is only negative. I guess it also depends on your political convictions etc but thats another story...............


Thanks again :thumbup:

Re: NEGATIVES
 

Garytrez, This is what I took exception to, "I dont mean to put a spanner in the works but although there is problems in SA.................there are also positives that cant be quantified by material stuff(weather, lifestyle, stunning countryside etc etc)."
I agree and have said in this post that it is entirely possible to not become a victim,possible but not guaranteed,ask the Picton-Turbervilles as a case in point.Saffa's negative,not all of them,but those who DID leave because of crime overwhelmingly so.
It's your choice to go and live there,and your responsibility to protect your family,no one here has said dont go.
Just stop trying to justify it with pretty similar weather to a helluva lot safer places in the World .
PS: Just read your reply to Pablo, where did politics come into this thread?or did you just raise it?