JZ for president
Dec 17th 2007, 11:48 pm
#16
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: JZ for president
Thanks for clearing that up Pabs, I suppose if I asked for some evidence of your assertion I would be pushing my luck, afterall organisations like Cosatu seem to be anti Mugabe.
Now perhaps if you could see the difference between alleged and acquitted, we would both be going up on the up escalator.
Now perhaps if you could see the difference between alleged and acquitted, we would both be going up on the up escalator.
I think the up elevator is broken or has no powa
Dec 18th 2007, 7:45 am
#17
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: JZ for president
...The examples of Mugabe's popularity are countless.
MUGABE STILL A HERO FOR MANY AFRICANS
http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx...ticleid=326974
PEOPLE SEE HIM AS A HERO
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/6960506.stm
MUGABE STILL A HERO FOR MANY AFRICANS
http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx...ticleid=326974
PEOPLE SEE HIM AS A HERO
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/6960506.stm
Dec 18th 2007, 8:29 am
#18
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: JZ for president
The defence, as usual, turns on the question of consent, and that is a hard thing to disprove beyond reasonable doubt. That is why so many rapists get away with it.
Either way, I am not going to argue the case with you. If you wish to believe that this poor woman, now living in Holland with hiv and in fear for her life, consented to have sex with a fat, ageing, powerful politician whose view of consent is that in Zulu culture it is required to have sex with any woman who is "aroused", and that the evidence for this arousal was the way the woman was sitting, then I'll leave you to it.
Surely it is sufficient to say that the political career of a politician who put himself in Zuma's position, not only on the rape case, but on the corruption case, would be finished in any civilized country.
The sight of the ANC Women's League supporting him, which I saw yesterday, is enough to make me throw up.
Dec 18th 2007, 2:48 pm
#19
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,669
Re: JZ for president
Surely it is sufficient to say that the political career of a politician who put himself in Zuma's position, not only on the rape case, but on the corruption case, would be finished in any civilized country.
The sight of the ANC Women's League supporting him, which I saw yesterday, is enough to make me throw up.
The sight of the ANC Women's League supporting him, which I saw yesterday, is enough to make me throw up.
Dec 18th 2007, 4:39 pm
#21
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: JZ for president
Thanks for that Lippie.
I think a lot of people in SA are desperately trying to find reasons to justify to themselves why Zuma might not be so bad after all. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate. It is a common enough trait in human nature, after all. No one wants to face up to what they cannot bear to face. I think that was why so many Zimbabweans I met during the late 90s were in denial about Comrade Mugabe.
In the end one just has to make a judgement. My view is that Zuma is an uneducated rabble-rouser, and I have never known such people make good leaders. Such people are often charming. Such people always have the common touch.
And though I find it hard to believe, it is of course possible that he is the victim of some massive conspiracy against him. Why am I not convinced by this? Because people *love* conspiracy theories, and if you're trying to deflect attention from your own crimes, what better way to do it that point to dark semi-identified forces at work against you. This is why we always hear about racists and saboteurs and so on.
Only Zuma knows the truth on all this. But his behaviour, particularly in the corruption investigations, does not look to me like the behaviour of someone who has nothing to hide.
As for what sort of leader he will make if he ever becomes president of SA, as I have said before, I think he will turn to the left, try out all sorts of popular and populist job-creation policies, find they don't work, and blame someone else.
Will the ANC split? Possibly. Will there be violence if it does? Almost definitely.
I think a lot of people in SA are desperately trying to find reasons to justify to themselves why Zuma might not be so bad after all. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate. It is a common enough trait in human nature, after all. No one wants to face up to what they cannot bear to face. I think that was why so many Zimbabweans I met during the late 90s were in denial about Comrade Mugabe.
In the end one just has to make a judgement. My view is that Zuma is an uneducated rabble-rouser, and I have never known such people make good leaders. Such people are often charming. Such people always have the common touch.
And though I find it hard to believe, it is of course possible that he is the victim of some massive conspiracy against him. Why am I not convinced by this? Because people *love* conspiracy theories, and if you're trying to deflect attention from your own crimes, what better way to do it that point to dark semi-identified forces at work against you. This is why we always hear about racists and saboteurs and so on.
Only Zuma knows the truth on all this. But his behaviour, particularly in the corruption investigations, does not look to me like the behaviour of someone who has nothing to hide.
As for what sort of leader he will make if he ever becomes president of SA, as I have said before, I think he will turn to the left, try out all sorts of popular and populist job-creation policies, find they don't work, and blame someone else.
Will the ANC split? Possibly. Will there be violence if it does? Almost definitely.
Dec 18th 2007, 7:19 pm
#22
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,669
Re: JZ for president
Thanks for that Lippie.
I think a lot of people in SA are desperately trying to find reasons to justify to themselves why Zuma might not be so bad after all. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate. It is a common enough trait in human nature, after all. No one wants to face up to what they cannot bear to face. I think that was why so many Zimbabweans I met during the late 90s were in denial about Comrade Mugabe.
In the end one just has to make a judgement. My view is that Zuma is an uneducated rabble-rouser, and I have never known such people make good leaders. Such people are often charming. Such people always have the common touch.
And though I find it hard to believe, it is of course possible that he is the victim of some massive conspiracy against him. Why am I not convinced by this? Because people *love* conspiracy theories, and if you're trying to deflect attention from your own crimes, what better way to do it that point to dark semi-identified forces at work against you. This is why we always hear about racists and saboteurs and so on.
Only Zuma knows the truth on all this. But his behaviour, particularly in the corruption investigations, does not look to me like the behaviour of someone who has nothing to hide.
As for what sort of leader he will make if he ever becomes president of SA, as I have said before, I think he will turn to the left, try out all sorts of popular and populist job-creation policies, find they don't work, and blame someone else.
Will the ANC split? Possibly. Will there be violence if it does? Almost definitely.
I think a lot of people in SA are desperately trying to find reasons to justify to themselves why Zuma might not be so bad after all. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate. It is a common enough trait in human nature, after all. No one wants to face up to what they cannot bear to face. I think that was why so many Zimbabweans I met during the late 90s were in denial about Comrade Mugabe.
In the end one just has to make a judgement. My view is that Zuma is an uneducated rabble-rouser, and I have never known such people make good leaders. Such people are often charming. Such people always have the common touch.
And though I find it hard to believe, it is of course possible that he is the victim of some massive conspiracy against him. Why am I not convinced by this? Because people *love* conspiracy theories, and if you're trying to deflect attention from your own crimes, what better way to do it that point to dark semi-identified forces at work against you. This is why we always hear about racists and saboteurs and so on.
Only Zuma knows the truth on all this. But his behaviour, particularly in the corruption investigations, does not look to me like the behaviour of someone who has nothing to hide.
As for what sort of leader he will make if he ever becomes president of SA, as I have said before, I think he will turn to the left, try out all sorts of popular and populist job-creation policies, find they don't work, and blame someone else.
Will the ANC split? Possibly. Will there be violence if it does? Almost definitely.
Dec 18th 2007, 7:32 pm
#23
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: JZ for president
Now that Zuma has won the voting for the ANC president the fun (not the correct word) will begin.
Personally I think Zuma will let this whole thing settle over the festive season and in the New Year begin to roll out his / their strategy to get Mbeki out ASAP.
It is certainly going to be interesting to watch it all unfold and we cam only say thank God we are watching this from the other side of the world.
The whole thing has a huge potential to get rather messy and I am positive the Mbeki comrades are not going to lay down their machine guns all that easily, if you catch my drift!
Personally I think Zuma will let this whole thing settle over the festive season and in the New Year begin to roll out his / their strategy to get Mbeki out ASAP.
It is certainly going to be interesting to watch it all unfold and we cam only say thank God we are watching this from the other side of the world.
The whole thing has a huge potential to get rather messy and I am positive the Mbeki comrades are not going to lay down their machine guns all that easily, if you catch my drift!
Dec 18th 2007, 7:49 pm
#24
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,669
Re: JZ for president
Now that Zuma has won the voting for the ANC president the fun (not the correct word) will begin.
Personally I think Zuma will let this whole thing settle over the festive season and in the New Year begin to roll out his / their strategy to get Mbeki out ASAP.
It is certainly going to be interesting to watch it all unfold and we cam only say thank God we are watching this from the other side of the world.
The whole thing has a huge potential to get rather messy and I am positive the Mbeki comrades are not going to lay down their machine guns all that easily, if you catch my drift!
Personally I think Zuma will let this whole thing settle over the festive season and in the New Year begin to roll out his / their strategy to get Mbeki out ASAP.
It is certainly going to be interesting to watch it all unfold and we cam only say thank God we are watching this from the other side of the world.
The whole thing has a huge potential to get rather messy and I am positive the Mbeki comrades are not going to lay down their machine guns all that easily, if you catch my drift!
Interesting times ahead.
Dec 18th 2007, 8:20 pm
#25
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: JZ for president
Oh yeah, interesting times for sure
Have a lovely festive season
Dec 18th 2007, 8:26 pm
#26
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,669
Re: JZ for president
Happy travels and a great festive season to you too
Dec 18th 2007, 9:05 pm
#27
Happily hungover
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Runcorn, via Africa and parts unknown.
Posts: 2,447
Re: JZ for president
Xhosas v Zulus ....... no contest. Bye bye S.A. 
Dec 18th 2007, 9:46 pm
#28
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 419
Re: JZ for president
...The examples of Mugabe's popularity are countless.
MUGABE STILL A HERO FOR MANY AFRICANS
http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx...ticleid=326974
PEOPLE SEE HIM AS A HERO
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/6960506.stm
MUGABE STILL A HERO FOR MANY AFRICANS
http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx...ticleid=326974
PEOPLE SEE HIM AS A HERO
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/6960506.stm
Dec 18th 2007, 10:03 pm
#29
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 419
Re: JZ for president
She had a record of accusing several other men of rape in the past, all of whom were found to be innocent.
I sometimes watch the girls of the playboy mansion, and I don't get that either, does that make Hugh a rapist? However I agree that she is living in Holland under threat is a disgrace. (she was HIV positive before the incident).
