g_harvey

Also, with regards to affirmative action, contrary to popular belief, it does not only affect the whites. I am coloured and I am way down on the list for jobs. During apartheid I was not white enough, now I am not black enough. But that having been said, it is necessary to balance the logistics.

Pablo

The suggestion that if you are vigilant you will be safe is a dishonest sleight of hand.

g_harvey

Each to their own. It worked for me and my family.

Pablo

Trouble is, you don't know that. If you think about it, you can see that the one does not lead to the other. A false conclusion.

1. I was vigilant
2. I wasn't attacked

Is not the same as
1. I was vigilant
THEREFORE
2. I wasn't attacked.

SabsLee

THis is a interesting (and depressing) debate: 'aggressive head-in-the-clouders just to go and learn for themselves'. Clearly this was meant for me. I HAVE been and I HAVE learnt for myself.. AND i can't wait to return. Thanks to G-Harvey's contribution I can go back to being over the moon that I'm about to start a new life in Cape Town. You seem like the anti-advocates for South Africa squad! I think the country has enough issues without that as well.

Pugsy

I am envious of this poster's good fortune with(out) crime, but that's all it is - random luck.

g_harvey

I cannot agree with you more. Glad that many of them have left the country too. SA doesn't need all this negatives!

Some people aren't worth arguing with.

Pablo

You sound familiar. I for one do not discourage people from going, but I am not prepared to be censored on the grounds that South Africa has "enough issues".

To those who speculate about going to live there, I say what I have always said. Inform yourself, read the newsfeeds, talk to South Africans, go and visit, preferably for more than just a week on some kind of dream holiday, and do your best to assess your own motivations and the situation soberly.

If a poster tells me, "I worry sick about crime, even in the UK" then it is fair to say they are likely to worry themselves even sicker in a place like South Africa.

But some are prepared to run the risks with open eyes, and I do not wish to discourage such people.

Pablo

A point that Brits in the UK tend to forget.

SabsLee

G-Harvey thank thank you for being a South African in the UK who can be positive about your country!

Also, I wouldn't say its random luck NOT be a victim of a serious crime, but very unlucky to be a victim of one. It's not the norm, just more common than in other more developed, better resourced countries. And of course it's fair to voice your opinions, but i think when they come from a very personal experience it's important to try and be objective about the situation.

Pablo

What would you say it is then?

What would "the norm" be?

As opposed to your view? Which comes from where?

Though I do not include myself in this category, there are people who have posted here who have been the victims of truly terrifying ordeals. It seems to me that it trivialises these ordeals to dismiss them as "very personal". I cannot conceive of such a thing being anything else but "very personal."

SabsLee

Okay last post from me:
Firstly my views come from 2 years in Durban and 2 years in Pretoria and Joburg and additional travel through SA and all over Africa. I'm not sure you feel that qualifies me to have an opinion but that makes up almost half my adult life.

In terms of luck I mean you are not statistically more likely to be a victim of serious violent crime than you are to NOT be a victim of violent crime. So your unlucky if you are...not lucky if you arn't. That's how i see it. But i also agree that taking all the neccesary precautions won't keep you safe ultimately.

But then i don't have the same 'fear of crime' as some people and i don't let that fear control my life but i certainly keep informed about it!

Pablo

I do not think there is any country on the planet where you are statistically more likely to be a victim of serious crime than not. So that means very little.

Still, I wish you luck and success in your new venture. Goodbye.

Daxk

Sabslee, I dont care wether you go back to SA or not. It does not affect me.
Your first post you stated:
"few horror stories, which are often grossly exaggerated by South Africans who haven't lived in the country for a very long time! "

This has now changed to"Firstly my views come from 2 years in Durban and 2 years in Pretoria and Joburg and additional travel through SA"

"But i also agree that taking all the neccesary precautions won't keep you safe ultimately. "

Do you always try and extuingish a fire with Petrol??
If you had bothered to read a bit more rather than starting off with branding people with a lot more experience of the good and bad of SA as liars, you may well have had a different reception.

In the midst of the Political Violence I caight a Putco bus from Maseru to Johannesburg,we passed through the Vaal Triangle where rampaging youths were looting and Necklacing people.
Fortunately for me, the People on the bus, who happened to be black, hid me under Blankets and bags when the Thugs boarded the Bus looking for IFP supporters.

In retrospect it was stupid,but,as I had often traversed Africa by bus,it seemed a good idea at the time.

Tegwyn

That is the clincher is it not?? I can tell you about a nephew being shot. He also was carjacked. Can actually tell you about quite a few people that were carjacked. Can tell you about dear friends whose lives have been turned upside down since losing their daughter to a home invasion. She was gang raped and lost her unborn baby. Ultimately took her own life as she was so disturbed by the event. Can tell you about other loved ones that were robbed but just are thankful they were not home at the time. Can also tell you of umpteen people that have approached my husband for help in finding employment here in the States because they want to live in safety after an event - or being retrenched and replaced with someone with significantly less qualifications and skills than they do. What is it that these people know that you don't?