Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Apr 29th 2006, 1:17 pm
#16
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Cheddar
Posts: 178
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
This is a very serious issue for all concerned and I consider it is important that everyone should know, where possible the detail of the situation. Following is the detail that has been shared with our solicitor and Fadesa in Costa Esuri and the Shed. Please PM us if you would like to see pics (don't seem to be able to insert any images now - any ideas?):
As you are aware we are more than dissatisfied with the referenced situation and have been requested through the British Expats to WWW site to contact you by fax to officially complain on the subject - please accept this as an official complaint. Be mindful that this matter is also in the hands of our solicitor so I am surprised that such a request should come through the WWW.
To précis the situation, post our inspection visit in December 2005, please see the following:
Upper Floor Rear Terrace.
Terrace Footprint NOT built to Plan
Plans (scale 1:100) show a square terrace area of 14.81 m2.
Actual terrace has the lost farthest L/H corner where a low walled Service area has been constructed and contains a fixed Electrical Distribution box (or similar) as shown in photos. Height approx 2 metres. Similar applies to terrace area of adjacent duplex. See Photos 1 & 2 and 3 showing part of remaining terrace area.
Air Conditioning
Total of six set of pipes terminate within either the Service Area or the two terraces.
Photo 1 shows two A/C pipes within Service Area presumably for apartments below as another is fitted within our terrace area.
Photos 1 & 2 show that adjacent duplex does not have same configuration as all three pipes terminate on the actual duplex terrace!
Fadesa’s Plans do not define the positioning of A/C units but pipework indicates total of six A/C units distributed between the two terrace areas and the Service Area!! Are we looking at one on each terrace and four within the Service Area?
Servicing Access
Access for the Service Area is via a small manhole situated on the top landing of the stairwell.
Entry point comes up within the Service Area and can just be seen in Photo 1 on the R/H side adjacent the A/C pipes. See Photo 4.
Loss of Privacy and Security as manholes is only secured from underneath.
Concerns
Loss of terrace space.
Noise of 6 A/C units within close proximity – deteriorating with age.
Noise of Electrical Distribution box (or whatever).
Visual impact – in your face.
Loss of view (and possibly sunlight in some cases).
Security.
Privacy.
Hearsay
Advised by a reliable source that Fadesa had already exchanged an Andalusian Village Duplex apartment for a Town House.
Action
Requested exchange for Townhouse
Only one left on Phase 1.
Fadesa held this for us whilst we viewed this property and consulted Solicitor.
Suggested Fadesa should compensate for aforementioned points or exchange without financial cost to ourselves.
An exchange was our stated, preferred option.
Fadesa did not advised until 2nd February that they would not exchange.
Solicitor advised 4th April that due to high number of complaints from duplex owners the A/C units for the underlying apartments may be moved – NO MENTION of Electrical Distribution box!
Complaints from MORE THAN 100 owners!!
Advised that completion could be finalised on 7th April.
Completion DONE on 7th April. Possible separate meeting with Fadesa on price reduction
Regards
Nigel & Kim
As you are aware we are more than dissatisfied with the referenced situation and have been requested through the British Expats to WWW site to contact you by fax to officially complain on the subject - please accept this as an official complaint. Be mindful that this matter is also in the hands of our solicitor so I am surprised that such a request should come through the WWW.
To précis the situation, post our inspection visit in December 2005, please see the following:
Upper Floor Rear Terrace.
Terrace Footprint NOT built to Plan
Plans (scale 1:100) show a square terrace area of 14.81 m2.
Actual terrace has the lost farthest L/H corner where a low walled Service area has been constructed and contains a fixed Electrical Distribution box (or similar) as shown in photos. Height approx 2 metres. Similar applies to terrace area of adjacent duplex. See Photos 1 & 2 and 3 showing part of remaining terrace area.
Air Conditioning
Total of six set of pipes terminate within either the Service Area or the two terraces.
Photo 1 shows two A/C pipes within Service Area presumably for apartments below as another is fitted within our terrace area.
Photos 1 & 2 show that adjacent duplex does not have same configuration as all three pipes terminate on the actual duplex terrace!
Fadesa’s Plans do not define the positioning of A/C units but pipework indicates total of six A/C units distributed between the two terrace areas and the Service Area!! Are we looking at one on each terrace and four within the Service Area?
Servicing Access
Access for the Service Area is via a small manhole situated on the top landing of the stairwell.
Entry point comes up within the Service Area and can just be seen in Photo 1 on the R/H side adjacent the A/C pipes. See Photo 4.
Loss of Privacy and Security as manholes is only secured from underneath.
Concerns
Loss of terrace space.
Noise of 6 A/C units within close proximity – deteriorating with age.
Noise of Electrical Distribution box (or whatever).
Visual impact – in your face.
Loss of view (and possibly sunlight in some cases).
Security.
Privacy.
Hearsay
Advised by a reliable source that Fadesa had already exchanged an Andalusian Village Duplex apartment for a Town House.
Action
Requested exchange for Townhouse
Only one left on Phase 1.
Fadesa held this for us whilst we viewed this property and consulted Solicitor.
Suggested Fadesa should compensate for aforementioned points or exchange without financial cost to ourselves.
An exchange was our stated, preferred option.
Fadesa did not advised until 2nd February that they would not exchange.
Solicitor advised 4th April that due to high number of complaints from duplex owners the A/C units for the underlying apartments may be moved – NO MENTION of Electrical Distribution box!
Complaints from MORE THAN 100 owners!!
Advised that completion could be finalised on 7th April.
Completion DONE on 7th April. Possible separate meeting with Fadesa on price reduction
Regards
Nigel & Kim
Apr 29th 2006, 6:31 pm
#17
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: wigan
Posts: 106
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Well done Kim, and thanks for posting. Attached is the complaint which we sent to Fadesa UK, and copied to others as indicated. The more people that complain, the better as far as I can see, so if you're affected and are unhappy, get writing is all I can say.
I've deleted the personal information just to explain the asterix.
Cheers,
Karen
I am writing to express my extreme disappointment with the handling of the sale and construction of our apartment detailed above.
We began the purchase of this property in October 2004, at a price of ******euros and have since made payments totalling over ******* euros. The property was sold as consisting of three terraces measuring 23m2, 10m2 and 23m2 respectively. Since visiting to carry out our inspection in March, we have learned that our third terrace, which should have measured 23m2, actually measures approximately 8m2, and has a low wall which divides it from an area which we now know to be a communal maintenance area for the entire building.
In this communal area Fadesa have allowed for the owners of the other apartments in the building to install their slave units for air conditioning systems. We are advised that up to 6 units will be installed on the terrace that we have purchased. In addition, there is a large manhole in this area to allow access for maintenance.
To add insult to injury, we have also been advised that our air conditioning slave unit must be installed on the very small terrace that we have been left with, thus making our apartment the only one in the building on which a unit must be placed.
Our third terrace has therefore been rendered unusable, and the lack of security for our apartment, given the ease of access via this manhole is alarming.
We know that the team at Costa Esuri were made aware of this problem many months ago. Quite why no-one saw fit to inform us is beyond my comprehension, and can only lead me to conclude that I am dealing with a company without scruples, and who place little or no value on their customers.
This is completely unacceptable, and is sharp practice of the worst possible kind. We did not expect to encounter such problems when dealing with a company of this supposed stature.
Our enquiries and complaints to the Costa Esuri site staff are met with a complete lack of understanding for the predicament in which we find ourselves, through no fault of our own. We have simply been advised to await a decision from the Head Office in La Coruna, but given that the staff at Head Office have known about this for over a year, why should we have to wait any longer for a decision on how this matter can be resolved?
We were told that completion would take place in December 2005. Making allowances for normal delays in handover, we arranged to spend the summer of 2006 in our new apartment and myself, my husband and our two young children have taken leave from work and school to spend time in Costa Esuri. You must appreciate that the unfolding events leave us in an intolerable position.
We have instigated proceedings to obtain full recompense. We do not want compensation for the loss of the terrace. We do not want the area to be “screened off”. Quite simply, we no longer wish to deal with a company that is capable of such underhand behaviour, and we need this resolved urgently to allow us to arrange other accommodation for our summer in the area.
I believe we have the right to seek full recompense, as you have not provided the property that you were contracted to provide to us. This property was clearly mis-sold. I now therefore ask that you arrange for our payments thus far to be refunded as a matter of urgency.
I expect your full response on this most serious matter within seven working days. If I do not receive a satisfactory response, I will have no choice but to involve my M.E.P, and to write to every publication in which you currently advertise your developments to advise them of the shabby way in which your customers are treated.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully,
Karen ***********
Encl. - Picture 1 & 2 of first air-conditioning unit in situ plus manhole
Picture 3 & 4 of wall dividing our terrace
Cc - Fadesa at Costa Esuri
Fadesa at La Coruna
Palayo Moron Pendas - Solicitor
I've deleted the personal information just to explain the asterix.
Cheers,
Karen
I am writing to express my extreme disappointment with the handling of the sale and construction of our apartment detailed above.
We began the purchase of this property in October 2004, at a price of ******euros and have since made payments totalling over ******* euros. The property was sold as consisting of three terraces measuring 23m2, 10m2 and 23m2 respectively. Since visiting to carry out our inspection in March, we have learned that our third terrace, which should have measured 23m2, actually measures approximately 8m2, and has a low wall which divides it from an area which we now know to be a communal maintenance area for the entire building.
In this communal area Fadesa have allowed for the owners of the other apartments in the building to install their slave units for air conditioning systems. We are advised that up to 6 units will be installed on the terrace that we have purchased. In addition, there is a large manhole in this area to allow access for maintenance.
To add insult to injury, we have also been advised that our air conditioning slave unit must be installed on the very small terrace that we have been left with, thus making our apartment the only one in the building on which a unit must be placed.
Our third terrace has therefore been rendered unusable, and the lack of security for our apartment, given the ease of access via this manhole is alarming.
We know that the team at Costa Esuri were made aware of this problem many months ago. Quite why no-one saw fit to inform us is beyond my comprehension, and can only lead me to conclude that I am dealing with a company without scruples, and who place little or no value on their customers.
This is completely unacceptable, and is sharp practice of the worst possible kind. We did not expect to encounter such problems when dealing with a company of this supposed stature.
Our enquiries and complaints to the Costa Esuri site staff are met with a complete lack of understanding for the predicament in which we find ourselves, through no fault of our own. We have simply been advised to await a decision from the Head Office in La Coruna, but given that the staff at Head Office have known about this for over a year, why should we have to wait any longer for a decision on how this matter can be resolved?
We were told that completion would take place in December 2005. Making allowances for normal delays in handover, we arranged to spend the summer of 2006 in our new apartment and myself, my husband and our two young children have taken leave from work and school to spend time in Costa Esuri. You must appreciate that the unfolding events leave us in an intolerable position.
We have instigated proceedings to obtain full recompense. We do not want compensation for the loss of the terrace. We do not want the area to be “screened off”. Quite simply, we no longer wish to deal with a company that is capable of such underhand behaviour, and we need this resolved urgently to allow us to arrange other accommodation for our summer in the area.
I believe we have the right to seek full recompense, as you have not provided the property that you were contracted to provide to us. This property was clearly mis-sold. I now therefore ask that you arrange for our payments thus far to be refunded as a matter of urgency.
I expect your full response on this most serious matter within seven working days. If I do not receive a satisfactory response, I will have no choice but to involve my M.E.P, and to write to every publication in which you currently advertise your developments to advise them of the shabby way in which your customers are treated.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully,
Karen ***********
Encl. - Picture 1 & 2 of first air-conditioning unit in situ plus manhole
Picture 3 & 4 of wall dividing our terrace
Cc - Fadesa at Costa Esuri
Fadesa at La Coruna
Palayo Moron Pendas - Solicitor
Apr 30th 2006, 6:30 am
#18
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Cheddar
Posts: 178
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Karen
I'll watch this space with interest. You certainly should have your money back, your loss of space is amazing and obvoiusly for you to pay extra for the bigger space shows how important that area was to feature in your life style. I feel so sorry for you & yours we know how dissappointing it is to find something like this after the anticipation of a two year wait. At least we do feel we can compromise as that terrace never was a very important one to us. I really hope they treat you quickly & fairly so you can move on.
Regards Kim
I'll watch this space with interest. You certainly should have your money back, your loss of space is amazing and obvoiusly for you to pay extra for the bigger space shows how important that area was to feature in your life style. I feel so sorry for you & yours we know how dissappointing it is to find something like this after the anticipation of a two year wait. At least we do feel we can compromise as that terrace never was a very important one to us. I really hope they treat you quickly & fairly so you can move on.
Regards Kim
Apr 30th 2006, 8:13 am
#19
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,377
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Good morning to All,
I am taking note of everything that has been posted on this thread, because it is effecting people in many different ways. Thank you again Kim & Karen (& Dean) for sharing your thoughts/plans/photos, etc.
If 100 complaints have so far produced a mule-like reaction of Fadesa digging in their heels, then a continuous stream of complaints (denuncios/OMIC, etc as mentioned before) at ayuntamiento/national/ EU and UK level seems to be in order.
If a cash compensation is offered (let's just imagine 50,000 euros), would that be enough to allow a property with this problem on it's terrace to be marketable at a lower price? I don't think so...For some people, this property is a short-term investment purchase. For others, it is a longterm purchase plan. I can see both groups of people losing out.
What would be so difficult in re-routing the A/C electrics for the 2 apartments below the duplex? The A/C for the duplex would remain where it is on the duplex terrace. The apartments at ground and first floor level would have their A/C unit sited on their terrace floor or wall (as is the case with rago apartments). Where is the difficulty in all this?
Re: The "tardis" electricity box. Why can not this box be sited at ground level (ie. at the foot of the stairs), instead of having to be accessed via stairs & manholes? Whatever cabling has been piped upwards can surely be reversed to go downwards? I am also thinking that these measures should not disrupt the enjoyment/view of the neighbour's terraces.
Got to go, bye for now,
Carol
p.s. our terrace measures same as your's Kim: 14.81m2. We specifically chose the end terrace duplex with 3 terraces to allow for the sense of space around us.
I am taking note of everything that has been posted on this thread, because it is effecting people in many different ways. Thank you again Kim & Karen (& Dean) for sharing your thoughts/plans/photos, etc.
If 100 complaints have so far produced a mule-like reaction of Fadesa digging in their heels, then a continuous stream of complaints (denuncios/OMIC, etc as mentioned before) at ayuntamiento/national/ EU and UK level seems to be in order.
If a cash compensation is offered (let's just imagine 50,000 euros), would that be enough to allow a property with this problem on it's terrace to be marketable at a lower price? I don't think so...For some people, this property is a short-term investment purchase. For others, it is a longterm purchase plan. I can see both groups of people losing out.
What would be so difficult in re-routing the A/C electrics for the 2 apartments below the duplex? The A/C for the duplex would remain where it is on the duplex terrace. The apartments at ground and first floor level would have their A/C unit sited on their terrace floor or wall (as is the case with rago apartments). Where is the difficulty in all this?
Re: The "tardis" electricity box. Why can not this box be sited at ground level (ie. at the foot of the stairs), instead of having to be accessed via stairs & manholes? Whatever cabling has been piped upwards can surely be reversed to go downwards? I am also thinking that these measures should not disrupt the enjoyment/view of the neighbour's terraces.
Got to go, bye for now,
Carol
p.s. our terrace measures same as your's Kim: 14.81m2. We specifically chose the end terrace duplex with 3 terraces to allow for the sense of space around us.
Last edited by Carol&John; Apr 30th 2006 at 8:18 am. Reason: add p.s.
Apr 30th 2006, 8:55 am
#20
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: wigan
Posts: 106
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Morning all,
Carol - I agree, it can't be beyond the capabilities of Fadesa to re-route the electrical equipment, ducts etc so that the air-con units can be relocated as you suggested. However, what may be a problem is the overall design of the upper floors of these buildings. Bear with me because this is difficult to explain, and I have attached a picture to try to illustrate.
In our case, the communal area which was supposed to be our terrace has on one side, (the viewing side if you like) a wall of about 7-8 feet. This wall reduces in height to a normal terrace when it reaches our part. You can therefore stand in our part, lean on the wall and look over to the golf clubhouse etc. Butting up to the 7-8 foot wall is a sloping roof over the stairway. Our terrace is on the top floor, mucky yellow/brown/mustard coloured on the right side of the pic. In the background you can see the door to our bedroom and the chimney stack type thing.
Now I personally wouldn't be best pleased that the major part of my terrace was surrounded by an 8 ft wall. We would need step ladders or a periscope to get a view beyond the wall.
I would therefore want the 8ft wall reduced to a normal terrace wall height. I don't know how they could do this without it involving major work to the whole design of the building, but then again, I'm no architect.
I'm not sure if the communal areas on the other terraces are designed as ours, so this problem may be unique to our type of duplex, i.e. the one with the largest rear terrace.
Karen
Carol - I agree, it can't be beyond the capabilities of Fadesa to re-route the electrical equipment, ducts etc so that the air-con units can be relocated as you suggested. However, what may be a problem is the overall design of the upper floors of these buildings. Bear with me because this is difficult to explain, and I have attached a picture to try to illustrate.
In our case, the communal area which was supposed to be our terrace has on one side, (the viewing side if you like) a wall of about 7-8 feet. This wall reduces in height to a normal terrace when it reaches our part. You can therefore stand in our part, lean on the wall and look over to the golf clubhouse etc. Butting up to the 7-8 foot wall is a sloping roof over the stairway. Our terrace is on the top floor, mucky yellow/brown/mustard coloured on the right side of the pic. In the background you can see the door to our bedroom and the chimney stack type thing.
Now I personally wouldn't be best pleased that the major part of my terrace was surrounded by an 8 ft wall. We would need step ladders or a periscope to get a view beyond the wall.
I would therefore want the 8ft wall reduced to a normal terrace wall height. I don't know how they could do this without it involving major work to the whole design of the building, but then again, I'm no architect. I'm not sure if the communal areas on the other terraces are designed as ours, so this problem may be unique to our type of duplex, i.e. the one with the largest rear terrace.
Karen
Last edited by billybassett; Apr 30th 2006 at 9:07 am. Reason: forgot to attach picture.....
Apr 30th 2006, 4:41 pm
#21
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,377
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Hi again,
I'm sitting here and am nearly cross-eyed at studying the photos that have been posted. Yes, Karen, I think I can see from your photo above that your 23m2 of terrace should stretch uninterrupted across to the corner of the property. I did not know that there are larger 3rd terraces. So, you do not have a neighbour-ing duplex owner? It is hard to see from the photo if there is another bedroom door further to the right of your upper terrace (beyond the chimney). Confusing
I notice that there a 2 different styles of communal stairs: one with a pent roof (like yours, Karen, painted white - although the paint colours may differ in each manzana), and the other with an apex roof (like in Kim's photos - refer back to page #120 on the CE thread, to post #1772). What if Fadesa were to chop off the roofs of the stairwells (ie. make them flat roof spaces), and place the 4 a/c slave units there, with manhole access? A lower wall, capped with terracotta roof tiles could divide the roof of the stairs from the view of the duplex terrace. It still would allow for open air supply to the a/c/units. Duplex owners (maybe) would need to have their a/c slave unit on their terrace (but this is what I had expected anyway).
Another thought, see Kim's photo #3 on pg.120, and look at the duplex beyond Kim's terrace. The one with the white paint splash on the roof tiles. Could this terrace have been filled in (ie. extend the bedroom into the terrace space (3 small windows at ceiling height), with storage space into the eaves?
Hasta luego,
Carol
p.s. sorry, Kim. Should have remembered to ask how Nigel is recovering?
I'm sitting here and am nearly cross-eyed at studying the photos that have been posted. Yes, Karen, I think I can see from your photo above that your 23m2 of terrace should stretch uninterrupted across to the corner of the property. I did not know that there are larger 3rd terraces. So, you do not have a neighbour-ing duplex owner? It is hard to see from the photo if there is another bedroom door further to the right of your upper terrace (beyond the chimney). Confusing
I notice that there a 2 different styles of communal stairs: one with a pent roof (like yours, Karen, painted white - although the paint colours may differ in each manzana), and the other with an apex roof (like in Kim's photos - refer back to page #120 on the CE thread, to post #1772). What if Fadesa were to chop off the roofs of the stairwells (ie. make them flat roof spaces), and place the 4 a/c slave units there, with manhole access? A lower wall, capped with terracotta roof tiles could divide the roof of the stairs from the view of the duplex terrace. It still would allow for open air supply to the a/c/units. Duplex owners (maybe) would need to have their a/c slave unit on their terrace (but this is what I had expected anyway).
Another thought, see Kim's photo #3 on pg.120, and look at the duplex beyond Kim's terrace. The one with the white paint splash on the roof tiles. Could this terrace have been filled in (ie. extend the bedroom into the terrace space (3 small windows at ceiling height), with storage space into the eaves?
Hasta luego,
Carol
p.s. sorry, Kim. Should have remembered to ask how Nigel is recovering?
Last edited by Carol&John; Apr 30th 2006 at 4:44 pm.
Apr 30th 2006, 6:54 pm
#22
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: wigan
Posts: 106
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Originally Posted by Carol&John
Hi again,
I'm sitting here and am nearly cross-eyed at studying the photos that have been posted. Yes, Karen, I think I can see from your photo above that your 23m2 of terrace should stretch uninterrupted across to the corner of the property. I did not know that there are larger 3rd terraces. So, you do not have a neighbour-ing duplex owner? It is hard to see from the photo if there is another bedroom door further to the right of your upper terrace (beyond the chimney). Confusing
I notice that there a 2 different styles of communal stairs: one with a pent roof (like yours, Karen, painted white - although the paint colours may differ in each manzana), and the other with an apex roof (like in Kim's photos - refer back to page #120 on the CE thread, to post #1772). What if Fadesa were to chop off the roofs of the stairwells (ie. make them flat roof spaces), and place the 4 a/c slave units there, with manhole access? A lower wall, capped with terracotta roof tiles could divide the roof of the stairs from the view of the duplex terrace. It still would allow for open air supply to the a/c/units. Duplex owners (maybe) would need to have their a/c slave unit on their terrace (but this is what I had expected anyway).
Another thought, see Kim's photo #3 on pg.120, and look at the duplex beyond Kim's terrace. The one with the white paint splash on the roof tiles. Could this terrace have been filled in (ie. extend the bedroom into the terrace space (3 small windows at ceiling height), with storage space into the eaves?
Hasta luego,
Carol
p.s. sorry, Kim. Should have remembered to ask how Nigel is recovering?
I'm sitting here and am nearly cross-eyed at studying the photos that have been posted. Yes, Karen, I think I can see from your photo above that your 23m2 of terrace should stretch uninterrupted across to the corner of the property. I did not know that there are larger 3rd terraces. So, you do not have a neighbour-ing duplex owner? It is hard to see from the photo if there is another bedroom door further to the right of your upper terrace (beyond the chimney). Confusing
I notice that there a 2 different styles of communal stairs: one with a pent roof (like yours, Karen, painted white - although the paint colours may differ in each manzana), and the other with an apex roof (like in Kim's photos - refer back to page #120 on the CE thread, to post #1772). What if Fadesa were to chop off the roofs of the stairwells (ie. make them flat roof spaces), and place the 4 a/c slave units there, with manhole access? A lower wall, capped with terracotta roof tiles could divide the roof of the stairs from the view of the duplex terrace. It still would allow for open air supply to the a/c/units. Duplex owners (maybe) would need to have their a/c slave unit on their terrace (but this is what I had expected anyway).
Another thought, see Kim's photo #3 on pg.120, and look at the duplex beyond Kim's terrace. The one with the white paint splash on the roof tiles. Could this terrace have been filled in (ie. extend the bedroom into the terrace space (3 small windows at ceiling height), with storage space into the eaves?
Hasta luego,
Carol
p.s. sorry, Kim. Should have remembered to ask how Nigel is recovering?
The problem seems to vary from duplex to duplex. We are not an end property, but we have an apartment on the 2nd/3rd floors, whereas the nextdoor end property next to us is a 1st/2nd floor duplex. In effect on the upper floor we are at the end. (if you know what I mean)
I am bog-eyed from looking at all the pictures and trying to second guess what may be done to resolve the problem. Hopefully, the people at Fadesa will have a top notch architect looking at it, and we'll all end up happy bunnies???
Happy bank holiday weekend everybody.
Karen
Apr 30th 2006, 7:08 pm
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,377
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
I reckon Fadesa should make a gift of a deluxe hot tub for each duplex owner...
Apr 30th 2006, 8:22 pm
#24
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 45
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Hi,
Is there any one attack people think should be directed towards Fadesa i.e. is it compensation, re-routing, full reimbursement people are after? 100 complaints may have been sent which for me is great but what are those 100 complaints asking for; 100 different things? if this is the case that 100 different may be being asked for, then fadesa i am sure will be comforted by this from the point that they are probably in the driving seat. I don't want to be negative and i understand that one approach is not possible but i just want to gauge what is the best way to attack this as to make Fadesa sit up, think and respond appropriately.
regards,
Dean
Is there any one attack people think should be directed towards Fadesa i.e. is it compensation, re-routing, full reimbursement people are after? 100 complaints may have been sent which for me is great but what are those 100 complaints asking for; 100 different things? if this is the case that 100 different may be being asked for, then fadesa i am sure will be comforted by this from the point that they are probably in the driving seat. I don't want to be negative and i understand that one approach is not possible but i just want to gauge what is the best way to attack this as to make Fadesa sit up, think and respond appropriately.
regards,
Dean
Apr 30th 2006, 9:34 pm
#25
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Cheddar
Posts: 178
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Originally Posted by Dean
Hi,
Is there any one attack people think should be directed towards Fadesa i.e. is it compensation, re-routing, full reimbursement people are after? 100 complaints may have been sent which for me is great but what are those 100 complaints asking for; 100 different things? if this is the case that 100 different may be being asked for, then fadesa i am sure will be comforted by this from the point that they are probably in the driving seat. I don't want to be negative and i understand that one approach is not possible but i just want to gauge what is the best way to attack this as to make Fadesa sit up, think and respond appropriately.
regards,
Dean
Is there any one attack people think should be directed towards Fadesa i.e. is it compensation, re-routing, full reimbursement people are after? 100 complaints may have been sent which for me is great but what are those 100 complaints asking for; 100 different things? if this is the case that 100 different may be being asked for, then fadesa i am sure will be comforted by this from the point that they are probably in the driving seat. I don't want to be negative and i understand that one approach is not possible but i just want to gauge what is the best way to attack this as to make Fadesa sit up, think and respond appropriately.
regards,
Dean
As you say, we don't know what the complaints are, just from this small thread we have each person in a different situation, not really knowing how or even whether they want a compromise. Some will, but for others it's a dream ruined and it's money back or nothing. It was our solicitor that told us, on her visit to the shed on our behalf re: the back terrace that there had been approx. 100 complaints. This was obvoiusly something that had come out in conversation. I'm guessing that the other complainants would love to amalgamate but are proberbly feeling very frustrated at the lack of support from Fadesa. We have already completed but are looking for Fadesa to change the location of the a/c units & do something about the electrical distribution box and the terrace area they have stolen from us. This gives you an idea of the way we are viewing things. We will be over there next week and will ask questions but know from experience that the shed make soothing noises but not soothing decisions.
Regards Kim
Apr 30th 2006, 9:54 pm
#26
Just Joined
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 9
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Originally Posted by billybassett
Hi all,
Juhhhst back from our week in Ayamonte, and wanted to fill you in on developments for us. We had another look at our terrace which should measure 23.44m2. It actually measures just over 8m2, with the rest of our terrace walled off for the communal area for air-con units. One had just been installed, and it was big. Silvia said there will be 6 units on "our/communal" terrace. To add insult to injury, our air-con unit must be installed on the smalll bit we have left. Incredible!!! We are the only apartment in the building which must have its own unit on its own terrace.
Having taken advice, we now believe that for us, this 3rd terrace is unusable. We have an 8 month old baby, and it will not be safe to have any access to this area. We asked Silvia what could be done. She, at first said that the only guarantee she could give us was that Fadesa would definitely not reinstate our terrace. They were looking at compensation, and a screen to cordon off the area or to give all payments back. We therefore went to see our solicitor to begin proceedings to pull out of the purchase and get our money back.
We then called in on our way home, and remarkably the story had changed. Fadesa are now, according to Silvia, considering reinstating our 23m2 terrace removing the air-con unit already installed and filling in the manhole. We can't therefore now ask for our money back. We have been told to wait for La Coruna head office to make a decision. I think they are just stalling.
I don't think they have any intention of reinstating our terrace, and undoing all the work within the building to enable the units to be installed elsewhere. Does anyone know what sort of work would be involved in moving all the ducting etc so that the units would be installed on each apartments own terrace?
All our plans are now in chaos, and after 2 years waiting and paying, we are left in limbo with a property that is no longer suitable for us, but unable to move on or look at other properties.
Fadesa are acting in a totally underhand way, and I am shocked at the turn of events. Sorry to be on such a downer about things. The situation may not be as bad for others, and compensation plus screening work may leave some still happy with their purchase, but it is no longer the dream home in the sun that we envisaged.
I have pictures that I will post later as soon as I unpack the camera. On a positive note, the site is really coming on, and I am sure it will be a great place in the future.
Karen
Juhhhst back from our week in Ayamonte, and wanted to fill you in on developments for us. We had another look at our terrace which should measure 23.44m2. It actually measures just over 8m2, with the rest of our terrace walled off for the communal area for air-con units. One had just been installed, and it was big. Silvia said there will be 6 units on "our/communal" terrace. To add insult to injury, our air-con unit must be installed on the smalll bit we have left. Incredible!!! We are the only apartment in the building which must have its own unit on its own terrace.
Having taken advice, we now believe that for us, this 3rd terrace is unusable. We have an 8 month old baby, and it will not be safe to have any access to this area. We asked Silvia what could be done. She, at first said that the only guarantee she could give us was that Fadesa would definitely not reinstate our terrace. They were looking at compensation, and a screen to cordon off the area or to give all payments back. We therefore went to see our solicitor to begin proceedings to pull out of the purchase and get our money back.
We then called in on our way home, and remarkably the story had changed. Fadesa are now, according to Silvia, considering reinstating our 23m2 terrace removing the air-con unit already installed and filling in the manhole. We can't therefore now ask for our money back. We have been told to wait for La Coruna head office to make a decision. I think they are just stalling.
I don't think they have any intention of reinstating our terrace, and undoing all the work within the building to enable the units to be installed elsewhere. Does anyone know what sort of work would be involved in moving all the ducting etc so that the units would be installed on each apartments own terrace?
All our plans are now in chaos, and after 2 years waiting and paying, we are left in limbo with a property that is no longer suitable for us, but unable to move on or look at other properties.
Fadesa are acting in a totally underhand way, and I am shocked at the turn of events. Sorry to be on such a downer about things. The situation may not be as bad for others, and compensation plus screening work may leave some still happy with their purchase, but it is no longer the dream home in the sun that we envisaged.
I have pictures that I will post later as soon as I unpack the camera. On a positive note, the site is really coming on, and I am sure it will be a great place in the future.
Karen
So sorry to hear your disappointing news.
I have a duplex in m6 which i am trying to sell before completion(due in 3 weeks) as my business partner who i purchased with suffered a heart attack just over 3 weeks ago. If you manage an escape from Fadesa you are welcome to ours at 2004 price for quick sale.
Apr 30th 2006, 9:57 pm
#27
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Cheddar
Posts: 178
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
p.s. sorry, Kim. Should have remembered to ask how Nigel is recovering?[/QUOTE]
Hi Carol
Also I need to study this.
Nigel is great as long as he doesn't have to lift a finger (poor love!!) He is well enough to fly, just can't cook, wash up, water plants, dust, hoover or put away. Ummm. We are going to Spain tomorrow, I even have to drive (dreading Lepe & Seville and all the rest)let me know if you want anything done or asked. Not leaving until pm.
Kim
Hi Carol
Also I need to study this.
Nigel is great as long as he doesn't have to lift a finger (poor love!!) He is well enough to fly, just can't cook, wash up, water plants, dust, hoover or put away. Ummm. We are going to Spain tomorrow, I even have to drive (dreading Lepe & Seville and all the rest)let me know if you want anything done or asked. Not leaving until pm.
Kim
Apr 30th 2006, 10:06 pm
#28
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: wigan
Posts: 106
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Hi all,
I've asked so may questions on this subject and about Fadesa and how they will want to play the situation. As Kim said, we are all in different situations, with different expectations. I would prefer to get my money back and walk away. I'm not sure how realistic this option is for us though.
We bought our property in October 2004 from an agent. We have contacted him and he has confirmed that he made about 40,000 euros on the deal, :scared: which means we may well have to walk away with a similar loss as Fadesa will only refund what they have received - not the agents cut.
If the option is to complete on the purchase as is, then we could potentially be left with an unsellable property. Remember, if we come to sell in the futre, we may be competing against 8400 other properties. Our apartments with ac units adjacent will be extrememly difficult if not impossible to sell.
We could be stuck between a rock and a hard place. For this reason, I have asked for a complete refund and at this stage may be willing to take the immediate loss. We'll have to consider the options when and if they propose a deal to us. I am sure we would win a court case, but when we would get there is anyone's guess. We've been advised that Fadesa have the capability to drag a case on in Spain for years if they want to, and we want to move on from this, not become embroiled for months/years to come.
One option we are currently looking into is to sue Fadesa in england. EU rules mean that you can litigate across borders (I think) and we are currently looking for a good UK based solicitor for advice. Any judgement on our behalf can then be enforced in Spain.
One thing for sure is that Fadesa want rid of the duplexes. They want to move on, and don't want to be held back by this problem, so I don't think they will easily take them back from us and offer the refund. In my opinion then, to ask for the refund may put us in the best position when it comes to haggling for compensation and seeking work on the terraces.
It's such a difficult situation and from what I've heard Fadesa are being very heavy handed so what we'll get out of this is anyone's guess.
From working in a similar field in the past though, it seems prudent to ask for more than you expect, see what Fadesa offer, and negotiate from there.
What do you all think?
Karen
I've asked so may questions on this subject and about Fadesa and how they will want to play the situation. As Kim said, we are all in different situations, with different expectations. I would prefer to get my money back and walk away. I'm not sure how realistic this option is for us though.
We bought our property in October 2004 from an agent. We have contacted him and he has confirmed that he made about 40,000 euros on the deal, :scared: which means we may well have to walk away with a similar loss as Fadesa will only refund what they have received - not the agents cut.
If the option is to complete on the purchase as is, then we could potentially be left with an unsellable property. Remember, if we come to sell in the futre, we may be competing against 8400 other properties. Our apartments with ac units adjacent will be extrememly difficult if not impossible to sell.
We could be stuck between a rock and a hard place. For this reason, I have asked for a complete refund and at this stage may be willing to take the immediate loss. We'll have to consider the options when and if they propose a deal to us. I am sure we would win a court case, but when we would get there is anyone's guess. We've been advised that Fadesa have the capability to drag a case on in Spain for years if they want to, and we want to move on from this, not become embroiled for months/years to come.
One option we are currently looking into is to sue Fadesa in england. EU rules mean that you can litigate across borders (I think) and we are currently looking for a good UK based solicitor for advice. Any judgement on our behalf can then be enforced in Spain.
One thing for sure is that Fadesa want rid of the duplexes. They want to move on, and don't want to be held back by this problem, so I don't think they will easily take them back from us and offer the refund. In my opinion then, to ask for the refund may put us in the best position when it comes to haggling for compensation and seeking work on the terraces.
It's such a difficult situation and from what I've heard Fadesa are being very heavy handed so what we'll get out of this is anyone's guess.
From working in a similar field in the past though, it seems prudent to ask for more than you expect, see what Fadesa offer, and negotiate from there.
What do you all think?
Karen
Apr 30th 2006, 10:36 pm
#29
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Originally Posted by billybassett
Hi all,
I've asked so may questions on this subject and about Fadesa and how they will want to play the situation. As Kim said, we are all in different situations, with different expectations. I would prefer to get my money back and walk away. I'm not sure how realistic this option is for us though.
We bought our property in October 2004 from an agent. We have contacted him and he has confirmed that he made about 40,000 euros on the deal, :scared: which means we may well have to walk away with a similar loss as Fadesa will only refund what they have received - not the agents cut.
If the option is to complete on the purchase as is, then we could potentially be left with an unsellable property. Remember, if we come to sell in the futre, we may be competing against 8400 other properties. Our apartments with ac units adjacent will be extrememly difficult if not impossible to sell.
We could be stuck between a rock and a hard place. For this reason, I have asked for a complete refund and at this stage may be willing to take the immediate loss. We'll have to consider the options when and if they propose a deal to us. I am sure we would win a court case, but when we would get there is anyone's guess. We've been advised that Fadesa have the capability to drag a case on in Spain for years if they want to, and we want to move on from this, not become embroiled for months/years to come.
One option we are currently looking into is to sue Fadesa in england. EU rules mean that you can litigate across borders (I think) and we are currently looking for a good UK based solicitor for advice. Any judgement on our behalf can then be enforced in Spain.
One thing for sure is that Fadesa want rid of the duplexes. They want to move on, and don't want to be held back by this problem, so I don't think they will easily take them back from us and offer the refund. In my opinion then, to ask for the refund may put us in the best position when it comes to haggling for compensation and seeking work on the terraces.
It's such a difficult situation and from what I've heard Fadesa are being very heavy handed so what we'll get out of this is anyone's guess.
From working in a similar field in the past though, it seems prudent to ask for more than you expect, see what Fadesa offer, and negotiate from there.
What do you all think?
Karen
I've asked so may questions on this subject and about Fadesa and how they will want to play the situation. As Kim said, we are all in different situations, with different expectations. I would prefer to get my money back and walk away. I'm not sure how realistic this option is for us though.
We bought our property in October 2004 from an agent. We have contacted him and he has confirmed that he made about 40,000 euros on the deal, :scared: which means we may well have to walk away with a similar loss as Fadesa will only refund what they have received - not the agents cut.
If the option is to complete on the purchase as is, then we could potentially be left with an unsellable property. Remember, if we come to sell in the futre, we may be competing against 8400 other properties. Our apartments with ac units adjacent will be extrememly difficult if not impossible to sell.
We could be stuck between a rock and a hard place. For this reason, I have asked for a complete refund and at this stage may be willing to take the immediate loss. We'll have to consider the options when and if they propose a deal to us. I am sure we would win a court case, but when we would get there is anyone's guess. We've been advised that Fadesa have the capability to drag a case on in Spain for years if they want to, and we want to move on from this, not become embroiled for months/years to come.
One option we are currently looking into is to sue Fadesa in england. EU rules mean that you can litigate across borders (I think) and we are currently looking for a good UK based solicitor for advice. Any judgement on our behalf can then be enforced in Spain.
One thing for sure is that Fadesa want rid of the duplexes. They want to move on, and don't want to be held back by this problem, so I don't think they will easily take them back from us and offer the refund. In my opinion then, to ask for the refund may put us in the best position when it comes to haggling for compensation and seeking work on the terraces.
It's such a difficult situation and from what I've heard Fadesa are being very heavy handed so what we'll get out of this is anyone's guess.
From working in a similar field in the past though, it seems prudent to ask for more than you expect, see what Fadesa offer, and negotiate from there.
What do you all think?
Karen
Personally there is no way I would complete until I knew all the options truly open to me.
Just found this site with some interesting FAQ on property law. Also some interesting past articles on agents and solicitors, which seem to point towards what I have already said ie it is possible that a local solicitor will steer you towards anything other than pulling out of the deal. I think you need truly independant legal advice to know whether it is a reality that Fadesa would hold you to ransom for months or years or whether this is the local solicitor giving you a 'bum steer'. You can also post a question on there, whether anyone will reply or not, who knows.
Anyway there is some useful info on there, albeit from a couple of years ago.
http://www.marbella-lawyers.com/
Tricia
Apr 30th 2006, 10:51 pm
#30
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 377
Re: Costa Esuri Duplex problem
Karen,
Generally the law in Spain is that the vendor has to give you the building with the metres as specified in the contract.
If they do not and give you less metres you are entitled to an equal percentage reduction in the price as specified in the contract .
If the percentage reduction amounts to more than 10% of the total surface area you are entitled to
A. An equal percentage reduction in the price as specified in the contract
OR
B. To cancel the contract and therefore also get a full refund of the monies you have paid the vendor towards the purchase price under the contract.
If this applies to you the choice is yours NOT the vendors.
Best
Loco
Generally the law in Spain is that the vendor has to give you the building with the metres as specified in the contract.
If they do not and give you less metres you are entitled to an equal percentage reduction in the price as specified in the contract .
If the percentage reduction amounts to more than 10% of the total surface area you are entitled to
A. An equal percentage reduction in the price as specified in the contract
OR
B. To cancel the contract and therefore also get a full refund of the monies you have paid the vendor towards the purchase price under the contract.
If this applies to you the choice is yours NOT the vendors.
Best
Loco
Originally Posted by billybassett
Hi all,
I've asked so may questions on this subject and about Fadesa and how they will want to play the situation. As Kim said, we are all in different situations, with different expectations. I would prefer to get my money back and walk away. I'm not sure how realistic this option is for us though.
We bought our property in October 2004 from an agent. We have contacted him and he has confirmed that he made about 40,000 euros on the deal, :scared: which means we may well have to walk away with a similar loss as Fadesa will only refund what they have received - not the agents cut.
If the option is to complete on the purchase as is, then we could potentially be left with an unsellable property. Remember, if we come to sell in the futre, we may be competing against 8400 other properties. Our apartments with ac units adjacent will be extrememly difficult if not impossible to sell.
We could be stuck between a rock and a hard place. For this reason, I have asked for a complete refund and at this stage may be willing to take the immediate loss. We'll have to consider the options when and if they propose a deal to us. I am sure we would win a court case, but when we would get there is anyone's guess. We've been advised that Fadesa have the capability to drag a case on in Spain for years if they want to, and we want to move on from this, not become embroiled for months/years to come.
One option we are currently looking into is to sue Fadesa in england. EU rules mean that you can litigate across borders (I think) and we are currently looking for a good UK based solicitor for advice. Any judgement on our behalf can then be enforced in Spain.
One thing for sure is that Fadesa want rid of the duplexes. They want to move on, and don't want to be held back by this problem, so I don't think they will easily take them back from us and offer the refund. In my opinion then, to ask for the refund may put us in the best position when it comes to haggling for compensation and seeking work on the terraces.
It's such a difficult situation and from what I've heard Fadesa are being very heavy handed so what we'll get out of this is anyone's guess.
From working in a similar field in the past though, it seems prudent to ask for more than you expect, see what Fadesa offer, and negotiate from there.
What do you all think?
Karen
I've asked so may questions on this subject and about Fadesa and how they will want to play the situation. As Kim said, we are all in different situations, with different expectations. I would prefer to get my money back and walk away. I'm not sure how realistic this option is for us though.
We bought our property in October 2004 from an agent. We have contacted him and he has confirmed that he made about 40,000 euros on the deal, :scared: which means we may well have to walk away with a similar loss as Fadesa will only refund what they have received - not the agents cut.
If the option is to complete on the purchase as is, then we could potentially be left with an unsellable property. Remember, if we come to sell in the futre, we may be competing against 8400 other properties. Our apartments with ac units adjacent will be extrememly difficult if not impossible to sell.
We could be stuck between a rock and a hard place. For this reason, I have asked for a complete refund and at this stage may be willing to take the immediate loss. We'll have to consider the options when and if they propose a deal to us. I am sure we would win a court case, but when we would get there is anyone's guess. We've been advised that Fadesa have the capability to drag a case on in Spain for years if they want to, and we want to move on from this, not become embroiled for months/years to come.
One option we are currently looking into is to sue Fadesa in england. EU rules mean that you can litigate across borders (I think) and we are currently looking for a good UK based solicitor for advice. Any judgement on our behalf can then be enforced in Spain.
One thing for sure is that Fadesa want rid of the duplexes. They want to move on, and don't want to be held back by this problem, so I don't think they will easily take them back from us and offer the refund. In my opinion then, to ask for the refund may put us in the best position when it comes to haggling for compensation and seeking work on the terraces.
It's such a difficult situation and from what I've heard Fadesa are being very heavy handed so what we'll get out of this is anyone's guess.
From working in a similar field in the past though, it seems prudent to ask for more than you expect, see what Fadesa offer, and negotiate from there.
What do you all think?
Karen
Last edited by Loco; Apr 30th 2006 at 11:03 pm.