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British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

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Old Jan 15th 2013, 3:31 pm
  #1111  
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by Andrew79
Well, I also did some of my own research into this. And I found the following information:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en..._national.html
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...g_ireland.html

I hope this helps
Hi Andrew, yep - those are th pages I'd found. But I can't see anything on there about how to apply for an initial entry visa as the spouse of an EEA citizen. According to EU law these need to be done with minimal paperwork, quickly and for free. I guess we need someone who's already done that or has looked at the various application forms to let us know. I'm guessing there will be more and more people looking at doing this in the near future
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Old Jan 15th 2013, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome
Hi Andrew, yep - those are th pages I'd found. But I can't see anything on there about how to apply for an initial entry visa as the spouse of an EEA citizen. According to EU law these need to be done with minimal paperwork, quickly and for free. I guess we need someone who's already done that or has looked at the various application forms to let us know. I'm guessing there will be more and more people looking at doing this in the near future
Yes, I agree it would be good to hear from anyone who has already completed this route. I suppose the only other way is to contact the local Irish Embassy/Consulate.
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Old Jan 15th 2013, 4:12 pm
  #1113  
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome
... Also as a warning: I saw a story on another forum by someone who claimed the Irish had denied his wife entry clearance as they believed he was only moving to Dublin in order to enter the UK. ...
As a practical matter this could only be a problem if they travelled together.

A first-world foreign female tourist travelling alone is not going to be challenged unless being obnoxious.
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Old Jan 16th 2013, 1:20 pm
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome
Also as a warning: I saw a story on another forum by someone who claimed the Irish had denied his wife entry clearance as they believed he was only moving to Dublin in order to enter the UK.
Originally Posted by holly_1948
As a practical matter this could only be a problem if they travelled together.

A first-world foreign female tourist travelling alone is not going to be challenged unless being obnoxious.
Holly, I'm not sure I understand your response.... Are you saying that the non-EEA spouse should not enter Ireland WITH the UK/EU citizen, but separately?

And as to your second point, what if the non-EEA spouse is NOT a first-world citizen? This is the case for some couples here who may want to consider the Singh route.
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Old Jan 17th 2013, 2:09 pm
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by WEBlue
Holly, I'm not sure I understand your response.... Are you saying that the non-EEA spouse should not enter Ireland WITH the UK/EU citizen, but separately? And as to your second point, what if the non-EEA spouse is NOT a first-world citizen? This is the case for some couples here who may want to consider the Singh route.
I'm saying that an American woman who enters Ireland alone is not going to have an immigration official suggest that she is doing that as a ruse to enter UK by improper means. Apparently there is a report of some Englishman coming to Ireland with his American wife and, upon probing questioning by Irish immigration officials admitted that he was taking up employment in Ireland with intention that it not be permanent but later moving to UK.
And the Irish immigration official properly exercised his discretion to refuse admission to the wife.
That could not have happened if they had not travelled together. Travelling separately is not a requirement, it is more of a safe harbour.
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Old Jan 18th 2013, 10:28 am
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by holly_1948
I'm saying that an American woman who enters Ireland alone is not going to have an immigration official suggest that she is doing that as a ruse to enter UK by improper means. Apparently there is a report of some Englishman coming to Ireland with his American wife and, upon probing questioning by Irish immigration officials admitted that he was taking up employment in Ireland with intention that it not be permanent but later moving to UK.
If this is a true story, the Englishman's first mistake would probably be saying that his (and his non-EEA wife's) settlement in Ireland was not "permanent". Exercizing EEA/EU treaty rights implies permanent settlement, NOT temporary. That's why the pundits say it's usually best to work 6 months in the EU country before attempting to move to the UK under the Surinder Singh route. 6 months' work is the minimum to show that one is not temporary, but is "settling" in the first EU country.

The second mistake may have been not acquiring the proper Irish entry clearance visa for the non-EEA wife. This may or may not be officially necessary under EEA/EU treaty rights (I suspect not), but it could ease any questions the Irish IO may have about intention to settle in Ireland "permanently".

And the Irish immigration official properly exercised his discretion to refuse admission to the wife.
That could not have happened if they had not travelled together. Travelling separately is not a requirement, it is more of a safe harbour.
IMO, the major mistake the couple made was not travelling to settle in Ireland together under Surinder Singh, which they have a right to do. The real mistake was not understanding the S Singh ruling fully and thus answering the IO's questions incorrectly.

Chgeck this thread about this "permanence" on UK Yankee, especially the final post:
http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=78369.0

Last edited by WEBlue; Jan 18th 2013 at 10:33 am.
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 5:06 am
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Angry Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

After reading some of these posts I am really worried now, I am a British cititizen, I have been out of the UK for 10 years working away, my wife and I have a son who is 3-1/2 years old, he was born in the Philippines but has both Philippino and British passports, and consular birth registration cert, My wife is Philippino, we have lived together for about 5-1/2 years, in Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines, where I have been working, though I dont know how to provide proof of this. we got married in Aug 2011 in the Philippines and bought a house there in the same month.
I did intend for my son to go to school abroad, but have decided that I would like for him to have a British education at home in the UK, so plan on selling up and moving back there, we have registered him with the local council and named the school we want him to go to, I am worried now after reading that an entry requirement for a spouses visa is we have to have been married for 4 years. before my wife can live in the UK with us

We were originally given the wrong information by the VFS visa service in manila, who advised us that we could apply for ILR from the UK if we had a 2 year visitors visa, which we got in september, my wife and son are in the UK at the moment, where my son attends free nursery school 3 days per week. and will be coming here to malaysia next week for a holiday, before returning to the philippines to start the application process

I dont have a degree or anything like that but am working in Malaysia for an oil company and will have a 4 weeks away 4 weeks home rotation.

What I would like claryfying are
1. Could we get a spouse visa, even though we have not been married 4 years.
2. Will the fact that I work abroad affect our application.
3. We have only got about GBP30K in the bank, is that enough ( I do earn 3000 per Month average over the year, and I have got a small house in the UK, a two bed terrace, with only 50p outstanding on the mortgage ( just so the bank will store the deeds at minimal charge) and our house in the Philippines is up for sale, its worth about GBP200K again no mortgage.

I can support my family, but cannot really prove it, I am worried that our application will be turned down because I work abroad, have a house abroad
and have been away for so long, I cant sleep at night worrying about my son, and his education, If my wife is refused we couldnt possibly return.

Help, I need your thoughts please

Last edited by Blackpudlian; Feb 2nd 2013 at 5:14 am. Reason: Change week to month,
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 5:29 am
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Hi Blackpudlian. I am in a similar position. As a returning expat wishing to sponsor a spouse for a UK settlement visa, you will have to show 1. proof that you are returning to a job in the UK paying 18600 pounds. The job does not have to start until 3 months after your return, but you do need to show a signed contract or confirmed offer. 2. In addition you have to show proof (pay slips, tax payments etc) that you have been earning the same amount in your current country of residence at least for the past six months.

The 4 years of marriage used to mean an easier ride, but that has been scrapped. Any shortfall in income can be covered by savings at {shortfall x 2.5 x 2}

Once you have sold your property you will have the 62k which is the amount needed to bypass all the rules (rich route)

Me? I am f****d.
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 5:36 am
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Hi Saurus

Thank for your response, I didn`t think it would ever be this hard, I just want to take my family home. and let our son go to school

I do have share certificates that are worth about 65K but I was hoping to keep hold of them in lieu of better times, as they have already lost approx half their value, Maybe I should just bite the bullet and sell them. I would then not have to get any old job back home, and could get one that I wanted

Why do they make this so difficult for us brits and so easy for other nationalities.

mill66
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 9:36 am
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by Blackpudlian
After reading some of these posts I am really worried now, I am a British cititizen, I have been out of the UK for 10 years working away, my wife and I have a son who is 3-1/2 years old, he was born in the Philippines but has both Philippino and British passports, and consular birth registration cert, My wife is Philippino, we have lived together for about 5-1/2 years, in Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines, where I have been working, though I dont know how to provide proof of this. we got married in Aug 2011 in the Philippines and bought a house there in the same month.
I did intend for my son to go to school abroad, but have decided that I would like for him to have a British education at home in the UK, so plan on selling up and moving back there, we have registered him with the local council and named the school we want him to go to, I am worried now after reading that an entry requirement for a spouses visa is we have to have been married for 4 years. before my wife can live in the UK with us

We were originally given the wrong information by the VFS visa service in manila, who advised us that we could apply for ILR from the UK if we had a 2 year visitors visa, which we got in september, my wife and son are in the UK at the moment, where my son attends free nursery school 3 days per week. and will be coming here to malaysia next week for a holiday, before returning to the philippines to start the application process

I dont have a degree or anything like that but am working in Malaysia for an oil company and will have a 4 weeks away 4 weeks home rotation.

What I would like claryfying are
1. Could we get a spouse visa, even though we have not been married 4 years.
2. Will the fact that I work abroad affect our application.
3. We have only got about GBP30K in the bank, is that enough ( I do earn 3000 per Month average over the year, and I have got a small house in the UK, a two bed terrace, with only 50p outstanding on the mortgage ( just so the bank will store the deeds at minimal charge) and our house in the Philippines is up for sale, its worth about GBP200K again no mortgage.

I can support my family, but cannot really prove it, I am worried that our application will be turned down because I work abroad, have a house abroad
and have been away for so long, I cant sleep at night worrying about my son, and his education, If my wife is refused we couldnt possibly return.

Help, I need your thoughts please
Hi Blackpudlian, without a job you need to show £62,000 in the bank for 6 months, cash account, your name/joint names. The rules changed last July, they are currently being contested but basically the coalition goverment is penalising it's own citizens because 'immigration' has become a dirty word in the UK.

I'm hoping that they change before I apply, been married nearly 13 years, 3 kids, moving back this Summer...
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by Blackpudlian
1. Could we get a spouse visa, even though we have not been married 4 years.
Yes, absolutely. As Sarus has said, 4 years used to be a magic number for an easier path to permanent residency for the foreign spouse, but now any couple married any length of time (newlyweds too) applies for the very same spouse/partner settlement visa.
2. Will the fact that I work abroad affect our application.
Not really, lots here are in the same boat. The hard part is if you need to find a proper job (paying £18600 or more per annum) in the UK to start within 3 months of your arrival in the country, along with a job history of earning same amount for either 6 months (same job) or 12 months (more than one job) in the foreign country. This is what's required to meet just the income requirements if you have no savings.

If you have savings you can use a specified amount over £16K to offset your salary gap, but the savings must have been in an account for 6 or more months.
3. We have only got about GBP30K in the bank, is that enough ( I do earn 3000 per Month average over the year, and I have got a small house in the UK, a two bed terrace, with only 50p outstanding on the mortgage ( just so the bank will store the deeds at minimal charge) and our house in the Philippines is up for sale, its worth about GBP200K again no mortgage.
Have you earned that salary for the last 6 - 12 months? If it comes to £18600 per year and you can prove it with payslips, tax records, etc. AND you can find a similarly-paying job in the UK, you could meet the salary requirements.
I can support my family, but cannot really prove it, I am worried that our application will be turned down because I work abroad, have a house abroad and have been away for so long,
You DO need to be able to prove your salary is above a certain level when the foreign earnings are translated into GBP. If you can't prove your foreign salary, that could be a problem.... Unless you can prove cash savings (for the last 6 or 12 months) of £62K to meet the requirement.

Is it that you're self-employed abroad? That does seem to be more complicated, but still is doable if you can prove with documents either sufficient past earnings+ a £18600 UK job to start OR sufficient savings.

As I said, lots of people here are in the same situation, have lived & worked abroad for years, have a non-EU spouse who needs a settlement visa before moving back to the UK. Maybe start reading some of the threads in this section, "Citizenship & Spouse/Family Visas". Also read the BE Wiki (up at the top) which has good clear info on the new rules for the UK Spouse Visa. It's a lot to understand, and not easy reading, but take it slow, one step at a time....

Last edited by WEBlue; Feb 2nd 2013 at 2:37 pm.
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 8:51 pm
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Guys, thanks for your advice, I am in a real mess, what can I do, I just want my little boy to grow up with his UK family.

let me give more details, I apologise beforehand as its a long story.
I am actually in Malaysia now,

I had been out of the UK for 10 years, working in SE Asia, I have a 3-1/2 year old boy, I had worked non stop over here for 8 years then took a year out to get married, I got married in the Philippines in aug2011 and couldnt find a job over here, so I returned to the UK and worked near home as a limited company starting end sept 2012, my wife and sun arrived in England in Dec 2012 on a 2 year visitors visa ( max180 days per stay) which is the one we were told to get, we were advised that if you had a 2 year visa you could apply for ILR from inside the UK, I read somewhere in early January by chance on the internet that this wasnt true, tried to contact the authorities, rang every official number I could find, but nobody would tell me for sure Yes-or-no, so I desperately rang a visa assistance company in Croydon I found on the net, who first told me that I could apply and had a good chance of approval, the same day I got a job offer from Malaysia I wasnt sure if it would affect our application so asked the Visa company who said it would not affect anything as long as I had 3 months payslips in the UK, which I did, So I resigned my job in the UK ( 160 GBP per day) and took the job over in Malaysia, it pays considerably more, and have now found out that to apply I do actually need a job in the UK, and wish I hadnt resigned, the problem I have now is the job in Malaysia splits your salary, I have no say in it, I will be getting about 6K per month paid into a Malaysian bank account, where Malaysian tax is paid, and the rest, considerably larger portion, paid into any account outside Malaysia, but not taxed at source, could I declare this on my application, would the embassy pass info this on to the tax man??????.

The job will soon move offshore onto an oil rig, which is 4 weeks on, and then 4 weeks leave where I would be going back to the UK to spend time with my family in the UK, if they were there of course!!

In a couple of months I will have the 62K needed , then have to keep it in the bank for 6 months then apply for a spouse visa for my wife, but I am running out of time, my boy starts school in the UK in September.

But I do have some shares, in the form of share certs for AIM listed companies, they are worth more that 62K, would the authorities accept paper certificates instead of 62K in a bank account??
What should I do, Can somebody help me get out of this mess

Mill66
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Old Feb 2nd 2013, 9:25 pm
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

You are the victim of badly planned policies. Government wanted to prevent brides being brought in from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, but the rules have been framed in such a way as to punish people in your situation.
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Old Feb 3rd 2013, 1:03 am
  #1124  
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Originally Posted by WEBlue
Yes, absolutely. As Sarus has said, 4 years used to be a magic number for an easier path to permanent residency for the foreign spouse, but now any couple married any length of time (newlyweds too) applies for the very same spouse/partner settlement visa.

Not really, lots here are in the same boat. The hard part is if you need to find a proper job (paying £18600 or more per annum) in the UK to start within 3 months of your arrival in the country, along with a job history of earning same amount for either 6 months (same job) or 12 months (more than one job) in the foreign country. This is what's required to meet just the income requirements if you have no savings.

If you have savings you can use a specified amount over £16K to offset your salary gap, but the savings must have been in an account for 6 or more months.

Have you earned that salary for the last 6 - 12 months? If it comes to £18600 per year and you can prove it with payslips, tax records, etc. AND you can find a similarly-paying job in the UK, you could meet the salary requirements,

BLACKPUDLIAN- WEB Blue, thank you for your comments, my apologies about messing up teh Quote system on here, im not with it today, with all this going on in my head and affecting my sleep
anyway I have only worked for 4 months this year in the UK , I earned 14400, and collected rent from my little house of 3900, that will make a total of 18200, by the end of the year, not enough !!!

You DO need to be able to prove your salary is above a certain level when the foreign earnings are translated into GBP. If you can't prove your foreign salary, that could be a problem.... Unless you can prove cash savings (for the last 6 or 12 months) of £62K to meet the requirement.

BLACKPUDLIAN-I can prove part of my foreign salary, the part that is declared by my agent to the malaysia authorities for being taxed at source, it is RM1000 per day, roughly GBP200, I work 7 days a week now, but when I go offshore I will be working 28/28 so I only actually work 6 months hence my salary actually halves, I expect my salary for the rest of this tax year to be ( Feb, March 12k, )( April May June 6K) Then an average of 3 k a month after that for the rest of the year( 1 month 6k/next month nothing and so on)

Is it that you're self-employed abroad? That does seem to be more complicated, but still is doable if you can prove with documents either sufficient past earnings+

BLACKPUDLIAN I was LTD Co in the UK for 4 months but not now

As I said, lots of people here are in the same situation, have lived & worked abroad for years, have a non-EU spouse who needs a settlement visa before moving back to the UK. Maybe start reading some of the threads in this section, "Citizenship & Spouse/Family Visas". Also read the BE Wiki (up at the top) which has good clear info on the new rules for the UK Spouse Visa. It's a lot to understand, and not easy reading, but take it slow, one step at a time....
BLACKPUDLIAN had a look at the wiki, there`s a lot to digest, I think I really need an expert who knows the system.

Last edited by Blackpudlian; Feb 3rd 2013 at 2:48 am. Reason: quotation errors
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Old Feb 3rd 2013, 5:33 am
  #1125  
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Default Re: British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

I don't quite understand why you consider yourself in such a mess Blackpudlian. You've got property, savings, income and shares. You are plenty wealthy enough to take your family home.

Lets be precise here, it is only difficult for us Brits who have no money. My little boy has no chance.
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