scrubbedexpat141

Sorry, but please don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

captainflack

There certainly have been analyses, for example:

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/20...eaving-the-eu/

The problem is that much of the comparison is done by groups who have already decided their position, e.g. European/business bodies, or eurosceptic groups. This one at least seems to be based on some kind of numerical basis.

The basic principle is though is sound. The US is a big single market, as is Europe, therefore these have big negotiating power to get beneficial deals in the same way big supermarkets have better negotiating power than small independent shops do.

It's fair to say though that this does not automatically mean the UK is better off in than out in terms of trade deals. It's possible for instance that the EU negotiating as a group of 28 nations cuts deals that best represent those 28 in general, whereas on its own, the UK could negotiate deals which solely focus on its own interests (for example, we may not care about olive oil or wine export terms, because we export little if any, but other EU countries clearly would). Therefore we may get better terms with a country outside the EU that produced olive oil and wine, than we could get within the EU. But this is going to be very unlikely to be significant when compared to the large number of FTAs and PTAs the EU has with countries outside obtained on good terms through its size and wealth as a market. It's very unlikely for example that we could get better terms with China, the US, etc. and the EU already has the best set of PTAs and FTAs with other nations outside Europe than any other single market does.

iggle

EU deal gives UK special status, says PM - BBC News

The new deal includes:

Cuts in child benefit for the children of EU migrants living overseas - applicable immediately for new arrivals and from 2020 for the 34,000 existing claimants
The amending of EU treaties to state explicitly that references to the requirement to seek ever-closer union "do not apply to the United Kingdom"
An "emergency brake" on migrant workers' in-work benefits that will apply for seven years - less than the 13 years the PM proposed but longer than other countries had asked for
The ability for the UK to enact emergency safeguards to protect the City of London

IKnowNothing

23rd of June it is then

Johnnyboy11

Good, I'll will have repatriated to Scotland by then and will vote a resounding OOT!

Standanista

Out, no brainer.

iggle

Do you guys think we will vote out though? The majority of the websites I visit are all out. Other than call me Dave I don't know anyone who is voting to stay in!

I also read, it’s actually the “left” stance to vote out as well, as the EU goes against their core principles. For example George Galloway (I know) and JC were voting for us not to join the EU in the 70’s. Apparently there stance hasn’t really changed

Actually who wants us to stay in the EU, Germany is that it?

One thing I like about this vote is non-British citizen in UK can’t vote. I am shocked that the PC Left brigade allowed that to happen, but it’s correct. British citizens should vote for the future of Britain.

francophil

Michael Gove's statement says it all for me, two memorable lines are,"the EU is an analogue institution in a digital age" and it's simple," the laws governing Britain must be made by people we choose".

Brains1983

As it should be. Interestingly, non-resident Scots were not allowed to vote in the Independence referendum, however for the EU vote, non-resident Brits will be.

mikelincs

David Cameron has already said the the freedom of movement thig is a red herring from the 'out' brigade, as the UK would negotiate trade links via EFTA, and one of the conditions of joining EFTA would be freedom of movement, so immigration will NOT be stopped.

IKnowNothing

Well he would say that wouldn't he.

mikelincs

The point is that it is true, and there will be NO referendum on joining EFTA, the government will do that.

Eeyore

To echo mikelincs, Cameron said it because it's a fact. The UK does 40% of its trade with Europe so membership of EFTA would be essential in the event of a Brexit, and allowing free movement of EU citizens is a prerequisite of entry. Which is why what will be the biggest single issue of the referendum for many will indeed be a complete red herring.

The idea that the UK could negotiate EFTA membership without free movement is delusional, but that won't stop the No lobby trying to pretend otherwise.

What concerns me is that the obsession with immigration will blind many people to the good that the EU does them in respect of things like workers' rights. I am quite certain that if the UK left the EU, within a few years most of the protections British workers currently enjoy as a result of EU legislation would be stripped away - many employers will be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect.

If you're a salaried employee in the UK, voting to leave the EU would be strongly reminiscent of Meleagris gallopavo skipping joyfully to the abattoir in early December.

Standanista

Curious then that bosses' organisations are so rooted in the In camp.

The salaried employees going cold turkey will be in Brussels and (not forgetting that exemplar bureaupit of finely-dined lunches and eurofficiency) Strasbourg, whose goose will be cooked to the tune of £55/million a DAY out of pocket.

tintriangle

READ: Gove Statement in Full | Euro Guido


Worth reading - very well put. Now let's find a similar statement from a stayer.