Bud the Wiser

Anyone see the recent programme "The truth about immigration?"

dunroving

Have to say that having lived in the US, one major positive of the UK is the greater provision for a safety net (welfare state, NHS). What state it will be in by 2020 or 2030 I don't know. Hopefully the economy will improve by then, but I don't see people changing their health behaviours so the burden on the NHS will likely get worse.

My biggest concern is that there will be an increase in means-testing. I feel lucky that although I am not, and will not be, anywhere near what you could call well-off, I am reasonably optimistic that in retirement I will have enough to not worry about buying groceries, dog food and an occasional mini-holiday. But if means-testing is introduced for pensions and health care, I could well be screwed. Unless we let several million immigrants in to prop up the welfare state.

I certainly think the UK is a much better place to live if you are in the lower quartile, socially - compared to the US. I have no idea how it compares to Australia, but I'm sure we'll hear about that soon enough.

Generally speaking I think the standard of living in the UK is far better in the UK than it was in the 60s, 70s and 80s. But that's probably true of much of the developed world.

Harvester523

HOW has it improved? You can easily live in an England that hasn't been ruined if you have the means. You didn't answer my question, ergo sum...
People on benefits earn far more than I've ever earned legitimately, therefore, it's better to be on benefits. I'm happy for you that you're living in paradise, but that's not how it is for everyone. Of course you don't need to live on optimism, you can afford to live.

Harvester523

I was reasonably well off in that era, my standard of living got progressively worse.

Sally Redux

It genuinely puzzles me. It seems fine on visits, neither of our families is at all well-off but they live comfortably, new graduates I know have all found jobs.

chris955

Of course it isnt how it is for everyone, that is true of every single country in the world.
You dont plan on returning to the UK, thats not a problem. I have no plans to return to Australia and I would never live in America or Germany or 100 other countries. It would be pretty boring if we all wanted the same thing.

chris955

It more than puzzles me to be honest. We decided to move to the UK largely based on a trip I made here a year before we moved. If it was even half as bad as some would have us believe there is no way in the world I would have uprooted our young kids and bought them here. They love it by the way.

Giantaxe

Then fix the benefit system instead of scapegoating "immigrants" - who btw claim benefits significantly less than non-immigrants.

dunroving

I honestly don't think that is true of most people living in Britain. There is much about my childhood and young adulthood in the UK that I look back on nostalgically (I left in 1983). But I also distinctly remember the following:

Expensive food, therefore a pretty unappetising and unvaried diet.
Teachers who could clip you around the ear, and a lot worse, without any consequence.
Expensive fuel and a cold house (ice on the inside of the bedroom windows).
Damp, mould, and peeling wallpaper.
Very limited social services and no monitoring of children's home situation.
Very few holidays.

Much of the above, and more, affected the lower socioeconomic classes much more than they do today.

Maybe it's the middle classes who are worse off now than back then (I wouldn't know, I didn't belong to the middle classes back then), but I don't think so.

Harvester523

I'm not scapegoating immigrants, in fact I think it's rather an "in house" problem.

Harvester523

That's just typical of not actually reading anyone's post. The only reasons that I'm not in the UK or returning are a) I can't afford to, b)it's too crowded, c)it's been ruined by successive governments, d) Brits who think the UK is the bees knees and can't see the problems.

dunroving

Just stay away from Herefordshire and you won't have to bump into any.

Harvester523

I think you've hit the nail - head there. The rich are richer, the poor are poorer (except for those on benefits), and the middle class got split into rich or poor. There's now no middle, there's rich or poor.

Bud the Wiser

Hypothetical questions.

If we could fix the benefits system would we 'need' more immigrants to join the workforce?

If more immigrants join the workforce will it continue to feed the benefits system in its present form.

Also, I read on BE somewhere*, that to be a net provider to the economy your earnings have to be 'x", where 'x' was substantially higher than the average wage. If memory serves me well it was over £40k. per annum. Which made me wonder what the percentage of new immigrants earn upwards of that figure.

* can't find the post, to verify, but when you start to break it down the figures, it was amazing to see what value people got from their tax contributions.

chris955

And I dont agree but thats OK.