Bahtatboy

You're not wrong there.

flares

Agree. Saudis are much more clued up than your average Emirati in my experience. I really enjoy going to Riyadh as I'm staying with some decent lads in a Western compound when I'm there (met through BE! - plenty of compound, Salwa and embassy dos) but I haven't moved from Abu Dhabi lock stock yet. My opinion may change!! Ask me again in 12 months.

Having interesting work helps too.

EricW

Hi Duffster,

Back to your initial question. I am today in the same situation you used to be 9 months ago.
I am interested to know your decision on job location (KSA or UAE) and also on your ability to negotiate a salary premium for a BDM position in Telecom operator (10 years experience).
I would appreciate to receive in PM an idea on your salary package.

Thanks for your help,

EW

HenryGale

Can you tell me which company you work for in Bahrain and are you an Engineer?? Please send me a private message if you can?

Thank you.

HenryGale

I didn't know Britishers were lazy as well. I used to believe that UK is the best place to work in the world as far as work ethics are concerned. If not UK then what is the best place?

HenryGale

By the way what job do you do (in Manama and Khobar) are you an engineer? Is there any demand of Mechatronic Engineers in the Eastern KSA or Bahrain or in Middle East anywhere?

HenryGale

You are definitely right. about (25 to 20) years ago there were more foreigners around here in KSA. But they left gradually. These days arn't that great either as they used to be earlier. And you are right they actually keep staring at you in the Malls. At several occasions I have been followed by a male (apparently he was pretending to spy on me and thought I didn't know) just for having picked a soap bar from the market where is wife, daughter or 100 years old mother was standing. The moment he saw that I had arrived to the market with my parents that's only he leaves me alone.
It is a society where male is the ruler, the son is in some cases if the family is rich and Saudi. Otherwise the family have no life of their own. A friend of mine was once visiting a general store on his own Muttawas caught him for being out without his father and as a punishment clean-shaved his Head.

HenryGale

Actually the people who are fine with this magic kingdom are only Muslims. They too do fell oppressed but bear the suffering for tax-free income and for that they are close to the Holy places. That is why you see less European workers in KSA; except for Dammam, Khobar, and Eastern area. This is also the reason the workk ethics are quite better in Eastern Region as compared to the Riyadh and Jeddah.

HenryGale

Which company is this by the way?

Anyways here are the pros and cons:

PROS:::KSA:::
1. Usually (not always) you get paid better in KSA.
2. The cost of living (Food, Clothes, Rent etc.) is comparatively lower than UAE.
3. You can save a little more comparatively.

CONS:::KSA:::
1. No great entertainment spots. Like (Cinemas, Exhibitions, Red Carpet events). Simply no place to visit. You can't buckle yourself in the car and ask your wife and kids where to? Because you know there aren't much places. You can experience the entire Riyadh in 30 days.
2. No work ethics. Although Eastern region (Dammam, Khobar, Dhahran is an exception).
3. You feel oppressed and depressed.
4. Your wife can't drive.
5. Your family can't go outside to the malls without you. Probably religious police wouldn't catch them if women are covering their heads. Rather the trouble would be to socialize. The society is a male dominant. They would understand English; only Arabic. And then other women around would be Saudis or other Arabs. They are usually aggressive towards foreign women. They wouldn't give them way, and would try to tease them.
6. Also since the kingdom has banned cutting hands off for stealing; under the pressure of Human rights commision, the crime rates have risen drastically in the last 5 years.
7. Corruption has also risen in the last 5 years.
8. Unlike other countries in the world. Kingdom has been continuously falling in the development graphs.
9. No further learning. Like if you are planning to do a few certified courses to improve your CV, well the news is there are hardly any such institutes in KSA. If there are some they are all full of ARABS, so no ethics and no learning. There are only 2 universities for advanced learning but non-saudis aren't allowed here.
10. Uneducated environment.
11. Schools aren't that good although a couple of British schools exist where the majority students are Britishers.
12. Say a good goodbye to your freedom.


UAE:::PROS:::
1. Your kids can enjoy the city without you.
2. Your wife can drive.
3. Lots of places to visit. Movies, Exhibitions
4. Work ethics are quite better, because less locals are employed in private companies.
5. Lesser crime rate.
6. Lesser corruption.
7. English is widely spoken.
8. A variety of cultures.
9. Comparatively more learning institutes.
10. Educated societies.
11. Freedom.

UAE:::CONS:::
1. Cost of living is a bit higher.
2. You can't save as much as in KSA.
3. You ........ Well I don't have any more.


IMPORTANT :: Note that I am not a Britisher so mine and your preferences could differ. Also mine and your experiences could differ a lot in both countries. Mostly Americans and Europeans are placed in an ethically better environment in both KSA and UAE.
Make sure your company is private. And that you aren't sponsored under any person, you must be sponsored by an organization or comany; but not a PERSON.
And the last but not the least both are ARAB countries. If you are aware of Arabs then better avoid them. So WHY http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...cons/icon5.gif are you coming to Middle-East anyways. Britain is way better. If you have to pay taxes then you are also paid the pension; one way or another it is the same. My advice stay there otherwise your kids wouldn't feel UK their home.

Good Luck.

HenryGale

By the way which freedom is it that you hate to give up the most. I mean you said Freedom > Money. Which freedom is it specifically?

The Dean

Henry, Britain isn't "way better" than anywhere at the moment..........

And you don't like Saudi "work ethics"? I wish every nation in this region had the professionalism and integrity of the Saudis......

HenryGale

You could be very right but the thing is that you are probably located in a literate community. If I am not wrong you live in Dammam or Khobar or in the Eastern region. This is very true that an educated local is sometimes even better than any other person in the entire world. But they are 1 in a 10000.
You probably drive to or are driven to work and then you return to the compound. If that's the case then you haven't seen the real thing.
This debate could go just as long as debate on the existence of Aliens.
But the fact is that your own luck matters as well. Varies from person to person. Some people have had great experiences others haven't.

And PLEASE take that wish back.
And in what terms is Britain not better, if you can elaborate. That place seems best to me. But yet I am not as well aware as you.

northbadawi

Did you visit Madain Saleh? Edge of the World, Wahba Crater...? Buy the book "Desert Tracks from Riyadh" and you will have "where to" for every weekend.

Never happened anything similar in any Jeddah mall or soak.

We feel much safer walking after sunset in Jeddah than in any western city.

You can learn here a lot if you want. If you want only to improve your CV then maybe not the best place.

WTF... it is your FREE decision to come and stay here. Doesn't it?

Stealth Otter

I feel much safer in Riyadh than I did living in the UK and find the work environment much more enjoyable - there's miles more opportunities here for me to expand my cv than back in the UK...by the time Call me Dave has finished rogering the economy I'll have lost all interest in returning to the UK.
Instead of focussing on all the stuff you can't do in Saudi why not try and seek out some of the things you can do...there's plenty to do if you bother going looking for it.
If you really don't like KSA or Saudi's then go somewhere else.

HenryGale

1. Since the thread is about comparing UAE and KSA, still KSA hasn't got much. Secondly Jeddah indeed is a little more modern than the capital. There definitely are such places in Riyadh as well but not every one can afford them.

2. Jeddah and Dammam specially have more amount of expatriates so this never happened to you. Secondly a lot of ethnic Indonesians who became Saudis reside there. The main purpose of the city of Jeddah is to serve the pilgrims. And the residents of Jeddah and the Western province aren't that much of Saudis ethnically; remember this area was under ottoman control?
Women in Jeddah are the most empowered in the entire Kingdom. And also the most educated. There were also some protests there by them. And 2nd last but not least Europeans enjoy a little better of an experience. And now the last that do keep in mind that we are comparing KSA and UAE.

3. Again Jeddah a bit different. But know that every thing about a country starts developing in the capital and gradually spreads. Compound life is different you are not worried when you are asleep. Ask those who live outside, they can't even buy a new car because it definitely will get stolen. Also the thieves prefer looting the foreigners over the locals.

4. If it is really true please inform me how. A student can't get a summer internship here unless he is Saudi national. He can't get a part-time job like at McDonald's. There is a board hanging out of the restaurant near my house that specifically mentions ONLY FOR LOCALS. Your son can't get admission at the national university like King Saud University. There are some privates which are extremely expensive and nothing like study happens around there. American faculties even avoid coming here. Correct that there are some computer learning centers but only for computer and just basic courses. Some companies do call for instructors from abroad specially Germany but the foreigners are not offered those certified courses instead they would offer the same to someone who is not even concerned. And they usually don't even attend the course. If they have to they keep making disturbance one way or another. And by the way you need a CV to move on and to display your qualification. You can't go to BMW and ask them to employ you for that you have read engineering books, but have not even done the advanced levels.

5. Again I am just giving a comparison. It is his choice to come or not, just telling him to be ready for it. And for your information if the expatriates quit coming here the won't even know what to do with the black sticky liquid that keeps coming from the underneath. Face it we all come here for tax-free income. And forget about the foreigners even the locals are not that FREE in some situations. And the freedom I am talking about is not the Beach freedom if that's where you are deflected, I am talking about the freedom to live. Foreigners here are deprived of a lot of acts every other country allows the expatriates. Dubai isn't any better in fact none of the GCC. But COMPARATIVELY better. Again I mentioned below in the previous quote if you can find any other place than GULF then prefer that. Still if the pay is good enough come but don't stay for too long.

No offense but if you have experienced something good not really will everyone else and vice versa.