Is it worth moving to the US?
Jul 25th 2015, 8:17 pm
#91
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I am beginning to think that some members' posts should come with a wealth warning. I had, prior to reading one of PetitieFrancaise' posts, considered that I have a "very normal middleclass salary", and indeed I have been criticized by her, among others, for over-estimating the income needed to support a comfortable life in the US. Yet it is obvious that she, and others, have substantially greater income than I do and/or much more saved away. With PF and others being so very far removed from the average, I would suggest they are ill-equipped to judge where the dividing line is between comfortable and not-so-comfortable, what is normal, and what living on average, or just below average, income looks like. 
I try not to post stuff like 'you should be able to live comfortably on that etc' because what's comfortable for me may not be for someone else and vice versa.
Jul 25th 2015, 8:50 pm
#92
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 83
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I must admit I blinked twice when I saw that figure on PF's post about medical expenses in France. I know my HB works in the same company and he earns well above the middle class range. PF's husband works in a different spectrum completely so I have no idea what his pay level is but it will be more than a enough for a family of 5 with a non working wife to live, do lots of trips with the kids and get private tutors, none of which I would equate with middle class.
I must admit I hate these threads about different health care systems as they are all based on totally different sources of funding and what one person constitutes as good care could be totally different from the next
I had excellent care in England and Scotland when I lived there. My eldest daughter was born at 32 weeks and had top notch care as did I. The only thing I would do differently was the fact she was given formula for the 1st 48 hrs but that was over 30 yrs ago when they didn't fully realise the impact just giving a small amount of formula could effect the success of breast feeding.
My youngest daughter was born with a fractured shoulder due to a difficult birth and i was basically unconscious for next 36 hrs. This time, they put in a nasal drip with donated breast milk while I recovered enough to feed her myself.
My Doctor in Scotland was brilliant and would often spend more time with us that required (thence the long wait times). More often than not he or one of his partners were on call, so if the kids got sick during the night, it would be them, not some locum.
The care I have received over here has been more often than not top notch but if I had stayed with the first primary care doctor I saw on my arrival, my impression might not have been so good. Fortunately I have been with the same doctor now for 14 yrs and he like my doctor in Scotland, is very welcoming and always willing to listen. I have always been aware that we have been lucky over here as we are part of a very good health plan. My kids have not been so fortunate, where there have been times since they left college where they had no health care. Even the heath insurance they do receive is not any match to the one my husband and I get.
As to France, my experience has been fleeting. Given the amount of prescription drugs that I dumped on cleaning out my parents house, they over medicate to the extreme. Even for myself on receiving treatment for a tick bite, I was told to take 2 doxycycline pills immediately but I was given a package containing 15. My mother is currently in a nursing home in Pontivy and her care is excellent with continuing speech and physical therapy all for 2,600€ a month whereas the home where we intend to send her in the next month or so in Rochester is £1250.00 per week! Haven't even looked at nursing homes over here.
I am tempted not to read the Guardian at the moment as all I see is an attack on the poor working class by the present government day after day. This current campaign against doctors and nurses is just part of the same nastiness that seems to prevail at the moment. A government that considers a million pounds as a middle class inheritance, has definitely lost touch with the people they serve.
I must admit I hate these threads about different health care systems as they are all based on totally different sources of funding and what one person constitutes as good care could be totally different from the next
I had excellent care in England and Scotland when I lived there. My eldest daughter was born at 32 weeks and had top notch care as did I. The only thing I would do differently was the fact she was given formula for the 1st 48 hrs but that was over 30 yrs ago when they didn't fully realise the impact just giving a small amount of formula could effect the success of breast feeding.
My youngest daughter was born with a fractured shoulder due to a difficult birth and i was basically unconscious for next 36 hrs. This time, they put in a nasal drip with donated breast milk while I recovered enough to feed her myself.
My Doctor in Scotland was brilliant and would often spend more time with us that required (thence the long wait times). More often than not he or one of his partners were on call, so if the kids got sick during the night, it would be them, not some locum.
The care I have received over here has been more often than not top notch but if I had stayed with the first primary care doctor I saw on my arrival, my impression might not have been so good. Fortunately I have been with the same doctor now for 14 yrs and he like my doctor in Scotland, is very welcoming and always willing to listen. I have always been aware that we have been lucky over here as we are part of a very good health plan. My kids have not been so fortunate, where there have been times since they left college where they had no health care. Even the heath insurance they do receive is not any match to the one my husband and I get.
As to France, my experience has been fleeting. Given the amount of prescription drugs that I dumped on cleaning out my parents house, they over medicate to the extreme. Even for myself on receiving treatment for a tick bite, I was told to take 2 doxycycline pills immediately but I was given a package containing 15. My mother is currently in a nursing home in Pontivy and her care is excellent with continuing speech and physical therapy all for 2,600€ a month whereas the home where we intend to send her in the next month or so in Rochester is £1250.00 per week! Haven't even looked at nursing homes over here.
I am tempted not to read the Guardian at the moment as all I see is an attack on the poor working class by the present government day after day. This current campaign against doctors and nurses is just part of the same nastiness that seems to prevail at the moment. A government that considers a million pounds as a middle class inheritance, has definitely lost touch with the people they serve.
Then there was the routine care for me and my wife. And don't even get me started on the ability to see your doctor, book and appointment or get through the doctor surgery receptionist nazis! Seriously, told to book a follow up appointment in two weeks to discuss long term treatment and can't actually do it! Told to wait until the day and then call it an emergency! Madness! Utter madness.
I appreciate that I am the exception and that there will always be the person who suffers. But the NHS has treated me and my family badly and I don't see it improving in the short term.
I am not saying the U.S. System is better or perfect. But the limited use we have made of the services has been excellent. My daughter broke a finger and we were in, assessed, x-rayed and treated in two hours! And that included driving to and from the hospital! Try doing that on a Saturday evening in a city in the UK!
The NHS had turned into a political kicking ball for the political parties to have fun. Shame as it could make a difference to millions, but the political elite seem to think that it's worth scoring points off each other! Idiots.
Jul 25th 2015, 9:42 pm
#93
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Joined: Dec 2002
Location: texas
Posts: 910
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
Hi off again, I didn't take it personally as Jersey girl says everything is relative to your experience. I know parts of the NHS are terrible and run down as my sisters live in Medway where they are constantly complaining about the service they receive. But I had always had a good experience of the NHS and when it works well, it is fantastic, just like here. As you say yourself this is because the NHS has become a political punch bag and has been most of my adult life unfortunately. Think the golden era of the NHS was in the 1950's/60's.
I should make it clear that my comments about what is considers sufficient salary wise is based on my own experiences of life over here. Austin is becoming expensive, so to live to here you need to have a good income which is often 2 full-time salaries plus a job on the side to live what would be considered comfortably especially if you have young children.
Would I come to the USA now? With what I know now, yes but when I came originally I didn't have a clue as our transfer was quick, a couple of months with no look see trip plus it was only for a yr to 14 months. I really didn't know, that basically, its a lot of little countries under the umbrella title of USA. My knowledge had been based on a 9 month cosseted secondment in MA just before my youngest was born. For for about 5 yrs, I dreamt about moving back to the UK as life was bad over here despite the nice income
. Then things started to improve and my outlook started to change. Then about the 10 yr mark, I realised home was where my family was (our nuclear family) and not really the place (it helps it warmer in the winter but it can be cold).
I still like to go back to the UK to visit but it not the same any more and I wouldn't expect to be. I don't have the same urge to move back but if we had to move, it wouldn't be trauma. I hate all the gun violence in this country and I can only see it getting worse before (if) its better but then I hate all the drunkenness in the UK which is slowly killing people. I hate the politics in this country but I suspect I would hate it in the UK at the moment as it seems to be in as much the grip of the rich companies as over here. I admit though, the thought of retiring here is bit worrying but having not really looked into it , I am sure we will cope as we normally do.
I should make it clear that my comments about what is considers sufficient salary wise is based on my own experiences of life over here. Austin is becoming expensive, so to live to here you need to have a good income which is often 2 full-time salaries plus a job on the side to live what would be considered comfortably especially if you have young children.
Would I come to the USA now? With what I know now, yes but when I came originally I didn't have a clue as our transfer was quick, a couple of months with no look see trip plus it was only for a yr to 14 months. I really didn't know, that basically, its a lot of little countries under the umbrella title of USA. My knowledge had been based on a 9 month cosseted secondment in MA just before my youngest was born. For for about 5 yrs, I dreamt about moving back to the UK as life was bad over here despite the nice income
. Then things started to improve and my outlook started to change. Then about the 10 yr mark, I realised home was where my family was (our nuclear family) and not really the place (it helps it warmer in the winter but it can be cold). I still like to go back to the UK to visit but it not the same any more and I wouldn't expect to be. I don't have the same urge to move back but if we had to move, it wouldn't be trauma. I hate all the gun violence in this country and I can only see it getting worse before (if) its better but then I hate all the drunkenness in the UK which is slowly killing people. I hate the politics in this country but I suspect I would hate it in the UK at the moment as it seems to be in as much the grip of the rich companies as over here. I admit though, the thought of retiring here is bit worrying but having not really looked into it , I am sure we will cope as we normally do.
Last edited by jjmb; Jul 25th 2015 at 9:59 pm.
Jul 25th 2015, 9:57 pm
#94
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Joined: Dec 2002
Location: texas
Posts: 910
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
' Addenbrooks hospital was horrendous and although the birth was long and had lots of complications, being dumped in a ward, given poor emergency care and my wife nearly dying in birth because the trainee nurses didn't know what "loosing pints of blood" looked like! Yes, they left trainee nurses who couldn't speak English and there was no supervision! Horrendous. '
My daughter could tell you almost exactly the same story except she had a nice room to herself in a top Houston hospital where a nice nurse would pop their head in and ask if she was doing OK and occasionally her vitals taken. I could see she was not well when we visited and I kept saying to husband I wasn't happy with her care as I had been through a similar experience myself. She was discharged from the hospital after 3 days with a cursory look by a junior doctor (not her own doctor because she made the mistake of having her daughter on a holiday weekend). Less 4 hrs later she was being rushed back to hospital in an ambulance, barely alive as a massive pelvic clot continued to grow. Not knowing what her problem was, they then proceeded to put more blood into her as they thought it was a uterine infection and blood lost, thus increasing her blood clot. She got worse, sinking in and out of conciousness and increasing pain. After 2 days they eventually found the clot. She had been within hours of death and lost the first few weeks of her daughter's life as she was too sick to hold her. Not surprising she and her husband have been very reluctant to have another baby. Unfortunately mistakes like this happen all the time and it doesn't matter where it happened, it will cloud your judgement of the profession for years.
My daughter could tell you almost exactly the same story except she had a nice room to herself in a top Houston hospital where a nice nurse would pop their head in and ask if she was doing OK and occasionally her vitals taken. I could see she was not well when we visited and I kept saying to husband I wasn't happy with her care as I had been through a similar experience myself. She was discharged from the hospital after 3 days with a cursory look by a junior doctor (not her own doctor because she made the mistake of having her daughter on a holiday weekend). Less 4 hrs later she was being rushed back to hospital in an ambulance, barely alive as a massive pelvic clot continued to grow. Not knowing what her problem was, they then proceeded to put more blood into her as they thought it was a uterine infection and blood lost, thus increasing her blood clot. She got worse, sinking in and out of conciousness and increasing pain. After 2 days they eventually found the clot. She had been within hours of death and lost the first few weeks of her daughter's life as she was too sick to hold her. Not surprising she and her husband have been very reluctant to have another baby. Unfortunately mistakes like this happen all the time and it doesn't matter where it happened, it will cloud your judgement of the profession for years.
Jul 26th 2015, 12:54 am
#95
Grumpy Know-it-all
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
This is the effect of a nationalized healthcare system, because in Canada (with the sole exception of NL) you have to choose if you want to be on the provincial payroll/insurance or be in private practice, you cannot do both simultaneously, so to get around it, they consult in the US.
I even had a specialist in the UK ages ago who was Canadian and had done the whole TN-1 thing, got tired of it and moved to the UK so he could have private patients.
The amount of money you can earn in the US compared to Canada or the UK is pretty much ridiculous, which is why the whole ACA thing is causing consolidation of healthcare insurers. That will only go so far, there will have to be cost containment at some point and that will come in the form of lower prices and hopefully Congress will finally do something about prescription drug prices. If they fail to do so I expect California will.
Jul 26th 2015, 1:00 am
#96
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Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
Anyway, Texas is considered a rubbish place to retire because of the property taxes. Property taxes in Texas compensate for the lack of an income tax but when you stop working, you stop paying income taxes. I know they have a small discount for seniors on property tax but it's still expensive.
Jul 26th 2015, 1:08 am
#97
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Joined: Dec 2002
Location: texas
Posts: 910
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
Other factors like heat and cost of air conditioning would count against Texas to retire but then in the north, its the cold and heating costs, can't win anywhere really. Worst is having state income tax and property taxes which are sky high like some states.
Jul 26th 2015, 3:16 am
#98
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,483
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
..... Worst is having state income tax and property taxes which are sky high like some states.
That said, there can be tax benefits to one state over another if you have high income or want a large house because you can choose between states that have different taxes rates on income and property.
The only self-evidently bad choices from a tax perspective are California and from DC north and eastwards across New England, which have reached an equilibrium with relatively high over-all taxes.
Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 26th 2015 at 3:20 am.
Jul 26th 2015, 3:41 am
#99
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
Unless you haven't noticed...the US is one country. That's like saying because you went to Leeds Uni...you must work in Yorkshire until your debts are paid.
You are talking to some of us who have spent decades in the UK and US...whilst you have been in the you US for a few weeks.
IMO medicine is a vocation...for those who wish to help others. In the US it's all about $$$$$$$ for many doctors.
Petitefrancaise...we have friends who are GPs in the UK. Their practice takes private patients too. The UK is like most places...money talks...but at least there is treatment for all UK residents vs those who can pay.
You are talking to some of us who have spent decades in the UK and US...whilst you have been in the you US for a few weeks.
IMO medicine is a vocation...for those who wish to help others. In the US it's all about $$$$$$$ for many doctors.
Petitefrancaise...we have friends who are GPs in the UK. Their practice takes private patients too. The UK is like most places...money talks...but at least there is treatment for all UK residents vs those who can pay.
Personally, I wouldn't work for the NHS as a nurse. They have very high nurse to patient ratios from what I've seen and heard, nurses get paid peanuts for it and to cap it all off, get creamed by conservative and liberal press alike for being "too posh to wash", "not needing degrees" "uncaring" etc. They have very little to say other than nurses nowadays are not like Florence Nightingale which is ignorant to say the least.
I am not sure what it is like to work as a doctor in the NHS today, but I'm sure Doconthemove has his reasons for wanting to be here. However, he did offer the insight of having only 15 minutes per patient versus an hour here. He does hold a professional license which he is held accountable to, not the employer that gives him too little time to diagnose or treat properly.
When I divorced in the Bush/Blair heyday, I went back to the UK for almost three weeks and worked out there was no way in the world I could cut it as a single mother on a nurses salary there. I did here. You can call something a vocation all you like from an outsiders point of view.
Jul 26th 2015, 8:16 am
#100
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I have experienced healthcare in the UK and Canada (socialised medicine) and the US (private). I agree with you...my experience of the UK and Canada...is to move onto the next patient as quickly as possible. Whereas my US experience is that the doctor will spend ages chatting to you about cars, football, just about anything under the sun. This is a big BUT...my experience in the US is within the NYC Met Area...where you are located. This is not indicative of the US in general. For instance... if I want to see a specialist I can usually do so within 24/48 hours. If I then decide on elective surgery...it can be done within a week. On one occasion I needed to visit the ER...I called my specialist whilst I was en route. There was a guy with a wheelchair waiting for me outside the ER. Although there was a couple of dozen people waiting....I was wheeled straight through to see a doctor. From what others in here have posted...it is not the case everywhere in the US.
BC where I am in Canada seems to be getting worse, wait times for specialists can be long, hard to find a GP and even when you have one can take 1-2 months to get an appointment, and then you have 10 mins. I even offered to pay cash to have a longer appointment but to no avail.
10 mins is not sufficient, and its becoming more then annoying, its preventing health issues from even being talked about because I can only talk about 1 thing, and the doc is in such a hurry, he doesn't appear to even pay much attention.
Suppose it all stems from a shortage of both doctors and funding.
My wife saw a specialist in Vancouver last week, he is in his 80's and doesn't want to retire as he is currently apparently the only doctor in Canada doing what he does, his wait time is also insane both to get an appointment and also once there.
I am starting to lose faith in the healthcare system in BC.
Also doesn't help that doctors are capped at how many patients they can see in a day by the government.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jul 26th 2015 at 8:18 am.
Jul 26th 2015, 8:57 am
#101
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
Oh dear. . Money, money, money...is that all doctors are interested in? If so you will love living in the US. I always thought....or I would like to think...doctors had the patients well being at heart.
I was saw an article the other day about a guy who has cancer and can't afford the meds. He is having to choose between meds or his home. That's US healthcare for you.
. Money, money, money...is that all doctors are interested in? If so you will love living in the US. I always thought....or I would like to think...doctors had the patients well being at heart.I was saw an article the other day about a guy who has cancer and can't afford the meds. He is having to choose between meds or his home. That's US healthcare for you.
We can't pay for patients' drugs: Canadian Cancer Society - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
16×9: Some Canadian patients struggling to pay for cancer treatments | Globalnews.ca
Ottawa cancer patient’s drug costs force her to sell business | Ottawa Citizen
If you happen to be in the wrong province in Canada, you can be up the creek if you get an illness that needs pricey medications to treat it.
Jul 26th 2015, 12:21 pm
#103
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,043
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I feel Doconthemove isn't getting a fair go here.
Personally, I wouldn't work for the NHS as a nurse. They have very high nurse to patient ratios from what I've seen and heard, nurses get paid peanuts for it and to cap it all off, get creamed by conservative and liberal press alike for being "too posh to wash", "not needing degrees" "uncaring" etc. They have very little to say other than nurses nowadays are not like Florence Nightingale which is ignorant to say the least.
I am not sure what it is like to work as a doctor in the NHS today, but I'm sure Doconthemove has his reasons for wanting to be here. However, he did offer the insight of having only 15 minutes per patient versus an hour here. He does hold a professional license which he is held accountable to, not the employer that gives him too little time to diagnose or treat properly.
When I divorced in the Bush/Blair heyday, I went back to the UK for almost three weeks and worked out there was no way in the world I could cut it as a single mother on a nurses salary there. I did here. You can call something a vocation all you like from an outsiders point of view.
Personally, I wouldn't work for the NHS as a nurse. They have very high nurse to patient ratios from what I've seen and heard, nurses get paid peanuts for it and to cap it all off, get creamed by conservative and liberal press alike for being "too posh to wash", "not needing degrees" "uncaring" etc. They have very little to say other than nurses nowadays are not like Florence Nightingale which is ignorant to say the least.
I am not sure what it is like to work as a doctor in the NHS today, but I'm sure Doconthemove has his reasons for wanting to be here. However, he did offer the insight of having only 15 minutes per patient versus an hour here. He does hold a professional license which he is held accountable to, not the employer that gives him too little time to diagnose or treat properly.
When I divorced in the Bush/Blair heyday, I went back to the UK for almost three weeks and worked out there was no way in the world I could cut it as a single mother on a nurses salary there. I did here. You can call something a vocation all you like from an outsiders point of view.
All based on how good your insurance is down there, last time I did (10+ years now) patients had no direct access to a specialist, my insurance required a GP visit first, and then a referral.
BC where I am in Canada seems to be getting worse, wait times for specialists can be long, hard to find a GP and even when you have one can take 1-2 months to get an appointment, and then you have 10 mins. I even offered to pay cash to have a longer appointment but to no avail.
10 mins is not sufficient, and its becoming more then annoying, its preventing health issues from even being talked about because I can only talk about 1 thing, and the doc is in such a hurry, he doesn't appear to even pay much attention.
Suppose it all stems from a shortage of both doctors and funding.
My wife saw a specialist in Vancouver last week, he is in his 80's and doesn't want to retire as he is currently apparently the only doctor in Canada doing what he does, his wait time is also insane both to get an appointment and also once there.
I am starting to lose faith in the healthcare system in BC.
Also doesn't help that doctors are capped at how many patients they can see in a day by the government.
BC where I am in Canada seems to be getting worse, wait times for specialists can be long, hard to find a GP and even when you have one can take 1-2 months to get an appointment, and then you have 10 mins. I even offered to pay cash to have a longer appointment but to no avail.
10 mins is not sufficient, and its becoming more then annoying, its preventing health issues from even being talked about because I can only talk about 1 thing, and the doc is in such a hurry, he doesn't appear to even pay much attention.
Suppose it all stems from a shortage of both doctors and funding.
My wife saw a specialist in Vancouver last week, he is in his 80's and doesn't want to retire as he is currently apparently the only doctor in Canada doing what he does, his wait time is also insane both to get an appointment and also once there.
I am starting to lose faith in the healthcare system in BC.
Also doesn't help that doctors are capped at how many patients they can see in a day by the government.
From my brief experience when I was admitted to hospital for almost a week in Toronto...I agree the doctors do seem to be rushed. The doctor would come to see me each morning...usually around 6 am...quick examination...with me asking him questions as he was walking away. He spent a couple of minutes with me each day...compared to my experience in New Jersey where the doctor would spend ages chatting about anything. Last year I was in hospital in Buffalo...now that was a completely different experience to NJ. All the staff I saw...doctors and nurses...gave me the impression that everything was too much trouble. That is was just a job they had to do but wished they were elsewhere. That's why I said earlier in the thread that the New York Met area healthcare...which I found to be outstanding...is not indicative of the rest of the US.
Same can happen in countries with universal healthcare, prescriptions for example in Canada are generally not covered for most people, so if they don't have supplemental health insurance through their employer or on their own (on their own can be costly and not something all can afford.) people can be on the hook for large medication bills.
We can't pay for patients' drugs: Canadian Cancer Society - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
16×9: Some Canadian patients struggling to pay for cancer treatments | Globalnews.ca
Ottawa cancer patient’s drug costs force her to sell business | Ottawa Citizen
If you happen to be in the wrong province in Canada, you can be up the creek if you get an illness that needs pricey medications to treat it.
We can't pay for patients' drugs: Canadian Cancer Society - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
16×9: Some Canadian patients struggling to pay for cancer treatments | Globalnews.ca
Ottawa cancer patient’s drug costs force her to sell business | Ottawa Citizen
If you happen to be in the wrong province in Canada, you can be up the creek if you get an illness that needs pricey medications to treat it.
Last edited by Jerseygirl; Jul 26th 2015 at 12:31 pm.
Jul 26th 2015, 1:45 pm
#104
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
I have a friend who is a RN. When she was Iin CA she was earning 130k, not that bad.
Jul 26th 2015, 4:58 pm
#105
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 975
Re: Is it worth moving to the US?
Seems NHS workers have been revolting of late. A couple of posters on this thread may care to read the link below......
https://juniordoctorblog.wordpress.c...-human-beings/