Wood vs Brick built houses
 

Looking at pictures of the recent devastation in Missouri the reporter commented how the brick built houses and structures were still standing. Why oh why are the houses made of wood instead of brick? :confused:

Re: Wood vs Brick built houses
 

I wonder if those brick homes still standing are all older homes, circa 1900s. Back then, brick wasn't just a facade like it is today. I wouldn't trust a newly built 'brick' home to withstand an EF4/5.

Re: Wood vs Brick built houses
 

.... $$$.

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That is true...I think they were older.

False economy IMO.

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Well to get a bit boring about it, it was a narrowish corridor that got damaged. The houses to either side were OK, you have to calculate the chances of being hit by the tornado and weight that against the cost of damages.

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I've got wood, but it's still erect despite my terrible wind.

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You must be built like a brick shithouse.

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I have noted that many of the pics show the surrounding structures still standing.

Even the brick buildings won't have a roof after a wind like that.

As one living in Earthquake Country, I would rather be in a wood frame structure any day. There was an article in the LA Times this morning about a hospital there and the wind blew out the doors and windows.

Also, one thing we have learned the hard way here in California is that how one joins the components of the building are important.

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I feel a lot of modern housing is put together like Ikea furniture, as quickly as possible using the cheapest materials available.

I recently bought a house in the older part of town (1950s counts as old here in Phoenix) rather than the new suburbs not least to avoid HOAs but also because they built houses properly then. Thick heavy concrete block walls keep the place nice and cool as do seemingly small design features such as large overhanging eaves, single story, small windows etc. The inspector was really impressed with its condition.

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I love old houses for those reasons. Also the traditional adobe construction of this area withstands earthquakes and keeps the house cool. The modern approach takes little or no account of local conditions.

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Respectfully, why do you ask the same question over and over? See S Folinsky's post. I wouldn't live in a brick house here if you paid for it and gave it to me.

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I wasn't aware I had asked it over and over again. :confused:

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I'm sorry. It wasn't very nice of me to be impatient, regardless.

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I thought wooden houses stood up better than brick in earthquakes as they flex. The shifting of brick houses means walls fall down and the mortar holding the bricks together rubs together and becomes sand, eventually falling down. Also, most brick houses out here have no foundations, so slide

Can't comment on tornado's though, can't imagine either structure would fair well.

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The chances of being hit by a Tornado, when you live in the middle of "Tornado Alley" aren't exactly remote.

Jim.

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I've just read 'tornados hit a given location once in 5,000 years on average' that seems remote to me

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Oh yes, no question about that. But the adobe construction is large slabs of mud used in low buildings. My post was more a rumination on traditional v. modern approaches to housing.

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Luckily I do not live there, so I am ignorant; but I had assumed that a tornado does a lot of damage to a competitively small area. So while it might be common for one to hit your area, you would still be unlucky for it to hit your house.

Re: Wood vs Brick built houses
 

That may be so but to me it makes sense to build houses of more robust materials if you live in an area prone to tornadoes.

I understand that houses made of wood are preferable to those of brick in some areas. I'm talking about houses built in areas where a brick house would remain standing when bad weather hits vs a wooden house which is blown away.

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Interesting little article, saying the most tornado proof house's are made of styrofoam bricks with concrete poured inside. I remember seeing this method used on Grand Designs, but can't imagine why, it obviously wasn't to survive tornados.

http://www.technewsdaily.com/rebuild...s-needed-2725/

Lots of these areas are extremely poor, and any roof over their heads is an advantage, what its made of doesn't really come into consideration.

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Yes that's interesting. Cost is the major factor.

I don't think many houses even in the UK are built with brick now. At most they will have a brick facing.

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Here's a list of all known Tornadoes, that have struck North America. Joplin has been struck on previous occasions, according to the Mayor & City Manager.....and they're not 5,000 years old;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nado_outbreaks


Jim.

Re: Wood vs Brick built houses
 

I admit I have lost touch with how new houses are built in the UK. Are homes no longer made of a layer of brick and another layer of breeze block? Are you saying they are made of timber because not that many years ago you couldn't get a mortgage or insurance for a timber framed house?

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I was thinking they're not built like my 1920s house was, out of proper brick courses. But I think you're right, they're often breezeblock with a brick facing. Timber framed houses are also more common now, though. My brother had one and my friend I'm going to stay with in the summer does. I didn't hear they have any problems with mortgage or insurance.

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Depending on location and what the local natural disasters are, sometimes one makes more sense than the other.

Timber tends to be cheaper though and pretty good for earthquake zones, not so great for wind zones, where it's the seal of the house that's important, roof or window goes and a vacuum effect can crush a flexible house in.

Much better building tech these days than just wood though, places like Japan have invested in the stuff more, because they suffer it more frequently, but also because they tend to rebuild houses on a fairly regular basis to get them up to code.

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I used to watch Grand Designs all the time. I was convinced that the host (can't remember his name) was having an affair with the female half of all the home builders because they always seemed to end up pregnant.

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I fancied him :lol:

Had to google his name though - Kevin McCloud.

Re: Wood vs Brick built houses
 

:lol:

:eek:

I love that show, watched the latest series recently whuch was mainly revisited ones.

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I vividly recall both the Leonis & Reyes adobe homes had sustained significant damage during several past earthquakes several times the walls had to be rebuilt, I was not aware that there where any more adobe homes in that area other then the two I had mentioned, I am pretty sure there are only 3-4 left in all of L.A , so I don't know where you are getting " The Traditional adobe construction of this area " :huh: , Yeah they keep cool in summertime, but do not stand a chance against earthquakes, so much for local conditions !
During a class project many moons ago we went to the Leonis Rancho and packed mud/straw into cracks and also made bricks with the same materials.

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I agree that in an F1-F2 tornado brick will probably still be standing even if the roof is gone. F3 probably depends on the proximity to the worst of the wind but F4 or F5 it just doesn't matter. Anything but poured concrete will sustain severe damage or worse.

This is a very interesting link (Really, it's worth a look;)) containing the history and pictures of the aftermath of the St. Louis, MO tornado of 1896. At that time, St. Louis was built pimarily out of brick. Two older (Built in 1915 and 1926) St. Louis homes I've lived in had solid brick walls with the inside of the exterior walls covered with plaster. I'm sure the construction of the buildings shown in the link was similar. The 1896 tornado was rated F4 at maximum wind velocity.

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/count...clone/1896.htm

Here are a couple examples taken from the link.

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/count...hn-nepomuk.jpg

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/count...l-lutheran.jpg

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Take a look at Google Maps:

Google map "Joplin MO"

On the left you will have an option for "Recent Floods and Tornadoes" which will map the tornado's path through the city.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ftr=cris...rnadoes_4_2011

A few things of note:

* You can switch to satellite view or street view to get an idea of the construction of homes pre-tornado (primarily wood homes in this area)

* You will see a few sturdier places, such as the commercial buildings that were built with cinderblocks and cement. In the red zone of most destruction those are basically gone as well. In the areas that were not under the direct path some brick structures may be standing whereas the wood homes are gone, but in the direct path nearly everything is flattened.

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Interesting article. I note that they say you really can't protect the roof. The article also notes "hurricane clips" which strikes me as echoing what I was saying on the methods of connecting the structure.

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BTW, not all wood framed buildings are alike. As I mentioned, there have been advances in how you put these things together.

For example, "shear walls" are now required. Here in LA, there is a construction inspection, both exterior and interior on the lathing to insure it is nailed/screwed correctly. Quite often, various connectors are required [should've bought stock in Simpson Strong Tie]. This has to be done before the covering goes on.

The structure must be tied to the foundation. [My house is unusual for pre-war construction. It was tied to the perimeter foundation, albeit bolts were 6' on center rather than the 4' required under today's codes].

I've noted that many of the lumber piles in Joplin do not contain sheathing.

"They don't build them like they used to." They won't let 'em.

PS -- I am talking about the "bones" of modern construction methods. The decorative finish stuff is not as attractive as the old stuff.

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I may be relying too much in what we were told on a trip to Santa Barbara Mission, where the adobe buildings had survived an earthquake which devastated the other structures.

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For those who haven't seen it, these are two pretty amazing videos.

The first is what it was actually like in the storm when it hit. A dozen people or so ran into a gas station/convenience store to take shelter, and when the storm came through they hid in the freezer for safety, crying and praying as the winds ripped through. It's almost like a horror movie (starting about minute 2:10 or so)



The second video is the aftermath, where the guy went back to see what remained. You'll see some pretty amazing footage of the destruction, including some cinderblock walls blown down.

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Instead of worrying about brick vs wood, a better bet might be to require cellars and/or tornado shelters.

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I was there a few weeks back and was told that the mission had suffered considerable quake damage -- see here.

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When do you reckon the next 'big one' will come?

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I live in an area that was apparently the biggest building site in Europe. Thousands of new houses over the last decade and they're still building. All the ones I've seen are breeze block inner walls and brick exterior. Note that the brickwork is not just decorative though, it also forms the insulation barrier.

Rather crazily, they're building on well known flood plains too. A field surrounded by a stream and a railway embankment always had large areas under water after rain. Now there are houses instead. Somehow they're insured and mortgaged.:confused:

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Safe rooms (usually small rooms built under the concrete garage floor or house concrete slab) are becoming common in recent years in tornado alley. They are small and cheap to build in a new house. A cellar may not be safe if it is not below a concrete floor since a F4-5 tornado can rip a wood framed attached floor from the cellar.

Even if someone builds a steel frame with rebar brick house, that still won't protect anyone since windows will break causing debris flying through the windows. Also the roof will likely be torn off in a direct F4-5 tornado hit.