Originally Posted by pejpm1

The health situation here is sickening.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

I'm now a US citizen, registered as an independent, and this is one of the major reasons I usually - but not always - vote Democratic. The Republicans love to posit the argument as "the best healthcare system in the world" versus "dastardly socialized medicine". As long as that kind of divisive head-in-the-sands attitude continues, I doubt I am going to vote for many members of their party. And of course the neo-cons' foreign policy has given me about a million other reasons not to vote for them... it really saddens me to see how the Bush Administration has effectively chucked away all the goodwill that came the US's way in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.

Originally Posted by pejpm1

Who said I was interested in having a debate? From your post I can see that you're a twat, nothing I say is going to change that.

I'm not an anti-capitalist, far from it.....however I cannot stand people that are against having a health service that doesnt discriminate on the grounds of affordability. When I was in the UK, I considered it a priviledge that a portion of my tax money went towards helping all people. The health situation here is sickening.

Originally Posted by YankeemovingAbroad

You constantly repeat the word "my" in describing what is important to you.What is wrong with a having a greater purpose in life than just viewing the world in context by what you can get from it instead of what you can give back to the world?

The basic doctrine of most republicans is to promote a way of thinking and policy that would convince people to think in terms of me and utter selfishness.We have seen that for the last 7 years by this Bush administration.

Arrogance over prudent thinking, cockiness instead of promoting ideas that benefit the greater good is what the republicans have given us for 7 years.It was that same, its all about me attitude, that convince the Bush led republicans to invade Iraq despite the objections from many of America's leaders and world partners.

Capitalism should be used as a tool to improve the lives of Americans.Many republicans believe capitalism should be a political philosophy on par with religion that should be used to decide how we approach life.That is why some among the rich believe they deserve more tax breaks than the working classes.

Because many of us have money there are those who don't want a national health care funded system for all Americans.I believe no society can sustain it self for a long history if the policies we promote are design to maintain an unequal sharing of resources.

Capitalism with out morals seem to be the basic doctrine of republicans.The republican have a lot of non consistent policies that have brought into question their sincerity.Sending troops to die in the Middle East to secure our grasp on oil but at the same time trying to tell citizens that we should not have the right to decide our own reproductive decisions.

The willingness to stop abortions but the eagerness to send young 18 ,19 year old kids to die in wars says a great deal about the capitalistic and moral belief of the republican party.Having been a republican and a democrate for many years has given me insight and ablity to form a well rounded point of view.

What the republicans are offering doesn't mesh with my morals and I don't believe life should be first and fore most about what only I my self can get from the world.That is why I no longer see the republican party as the political party the best represent my world view.

Originally Posted by Dan725

That's quite restrained. I'd go so far as to say voting for a Republican party led by absolutely anyone is dangerous for the whole world!

Originally Posted by frrussre

Constantly learning, forever evolving. New information, to input everyday.
"I use to be indecisive, now I can't make up my mind"
Reg. Frank R.

Originally Posted by TexasAlex

I agree with you "The health situation here is sickening". We have the best healthcare system in the world, BUT only if you can afford it. And that is a big "But".

Then you enter the question, why it has become so expensive and what can be done to make it affordable for more people.

I think there are a number of issues that play a role:

The 3rd party payer system does not help to keep costs in check. For non-emergency care, how many of us with health insurance (and I include myself) actually shop around for the best price/quality combination. Since everything is paid by my health insurance I honestly don't care how much it costs. And that is the problem. If I a need a blood checkup, I have no incentive to shop for doctor with reasonable fees, like I would shop around if I wanted to hire a lawyer or purchase any consumer good. Again, this only works for non-emergency care. How is it, that laser eye surgery and cosmetic surgery is affordable? The answer is, it is all privately paid and the patients care about the price/quality ratio. It is competition that keeps prices down, and forces organizations (hospitals, etc.) to be more efficient. How many of us, who work in the private industry, have seen that happening. A process/way of doing could not be changed/improved until a competitor entered the picture, and all of a sudden people came up with new and cheaper ways of making/offering the same product/service.

The health insurance is regulated on the state level, and every state regulates what needs to be included. Some states load it up, and prohibit insurers to offer health insurance without services that are nice to have, but not really necessary. That does not help to make health insurance more affordable. As a consumer, if I buy private health insurance (not through an employer), I might have to buy the more expensive “BMW” version, when I all I want and can afford is the bare bones “Ford” version.

Originally Posted by Ridski

I'm jumping in this pretty early, so I haven't read all the replies yet. If this is mentioned later, then I apologize in advance.

You are falling into the trap set by the current two party system, YMA. As you well know, there are more than two schools of thought, and the Republicans and Democrats have bought into 'lite' versions of the other schools, in their efforts to appeal to a more central ground. The school the OP is espousing here, is not necessarily a Republican, or even Conservative viewpoint, but a Libertarian one. True Libertarians believe in only one central tenet, that we should all be free to do what we want without government interference, as long as no one is harmed in any way. A true Libertarian is against the use of force to achieve their goals, so they do not agree with war. A true Libertarian is against all forms of discrimination, including Affirmative Action. A true Libertarian is also against taxation, however, as they perceive taxation as theft of personal property under threat of jail or death (what happens when you refuse to pay? People with guns show up at your house and will kill you if you if you try to defend yourself). A true Libertarian believes that a free and open economy is essential to the growth of America, which includes free and open borders.

Libertarians have a tendency to be a little crazy, but they're not all right-wing nutbars, and they're not all selfish free-marketeers. Many of them just believe we should be allowed to have a little more personal responsibility if we are capable of it, and believe that less laws makes for a better place.

Originally Posted by Ridski

I'm jumping in this pretty early, so I haven't read all the replies yet. If this is mentioned later, then I apologize in advance.

You are falling into the trap set by the current two party system, YMA. As you well know, there are more than two schools of thought, and the Republicans and Democrats have bought into 'lite' versions of the other schools, in their efforts to appeal to a more central ground. The school the OP is espousing here, is not necessarily a Republican, or even Conservative viewpoint, but a Libertarian one. True Libertarians believe in only one central tenet, that we should all be free to do what we want without government interference, as long as no one is harmed in any way. A true Libertarian is against the use of force to achieve their goals, so they do not agree with war. A true Libertarian is against all forms of discrimination, including Affirmative Action. A true Libertarian is also against taxation, however, as they perceive taxation as theft of personal property under threat of jail or death (what happens when you refuse to pay? People with guns show up at your house and will kill you if you if you try to defend yourself). A true Libertarian believes that a free and open economy is essential to the growth of America, which includes free and open borders.

Libertarians have a tendency to be a little crazy, but they're not all right-wing nutbars, and they're not all selfish free-marketeers. Many of them just believe we should be allowed to have a little more personal responsibility if we are capable of it, and believe that less laws makes for a better place.

Originally Posted by CitySimon

Here's a suggestion:

These are approximate and would be a sliding scale showing the mainstream political sphere within each countries (based on my understanding)...


The British Political Sphere:

[Left---------------------------------|------------------------------Right]
[----------------------------Lab=========Con--------------------------]


US Political Sphere:

[Left---------------------------------|------------------------------Right]
[------------------------------------Dem==Rep---------------------------]


If you imagine an even spread of the population from Left to Right between the two main parties, a larger percentage of people from Europe would fall into the Democrat camp of US politics. These people would therefore be more likely to vote democrat rather than Republican.

Originally Posted by CitySimon

Here's a suggestion:

These are approximate and would be a sliding scale showing the mainstream political sphere within each countries (based on my understanding)...


The British Political Sphere:

[Left---------------------------------|------------------------------Right]
[----------------------------Lab=========Con--------------------------]


US Political Sphere:

[Left---------------------------------|------------------------------Right]
[------------------------------------Dem==Rep---------------------------]


If you imagine an even spread of the population from Left to Right between the two main parties, a larger percentage of people from Europe would fall into the Democrat camp of US politics. These people would therefore be more likely to vote democrat rather than Republican.

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP

That's a good summation. But I'd say that for the most part, the Republicans are a fair bit to the right of the Tories.

I can't imagine anyone in the Conservative party actively campaigning to do away with the NHS, eliminate gun control, or avoid the Kyoto Treaty, nor would they attempt to introduce religion into the political process, for example.