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Who knows Maryland??

Who knows Maryland??

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Old Sep 10th 2011, 9:55 pm
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Default Who knows Maryland??

I asked a similar question a little while ago but didn't get too many replies - I was wondering whether there are some folks here that know Maryland? I know it's not the most thrilling of states, but it's the one we'll have to live in, so if anyone can tell me a little more about it, I'd be more than grateful!

Place names I've come across:

Hanover
Severn
Odenton
(these would all be close to hubby's work)
Columbia (I know this is a planned community, which I might not be THAT keen on??)
Ellicott City (this is supposed to have somewhat of an historic centre??)
Silver Springs (suburb of DC and probably too far for us to commute)

We're currently looking for temp accommodation for the first 6 weeks - what would be the most central location to drive around and look at houses from? Is there ANYWHERE where we could actually walk to places, rather than always having to drive (shops, restaurants etc.)? Any place that's got a bit of old town charm?

As I said - any info would be much appreciated!!

Thanks very much in advance :-))

Katrin
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Old Sep 10th 2011, 11:26 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

I asked about Maryland a couple years ago, which got quite a lot of decent info, it'll be a little dated now but a good starting point.

As for recommendations, well it'll probably help if you tell folks what kind of budget you're looking for, threshold for commute times and if schools are important or not.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 7:20 am
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

As to your basic question about 'walking'. Forget it. Seriously. Forget it.

The US is built around the car. Zoning (planning) permission is all designed around the concept of "driving" to do even the most fundamental basics of life.
The population density of the US is a fraction of that in the UK and when you start to consider there are XX grocery stores for every YY people, and there are ZZ people per square kilometer, you start to see why the distances between places is quite a bit greater than you are used to.

In urban cores, you start to find some semblance of a walkable lifestyle, but after your scratch the surface, you find in many "walkable" areas they truly aren't walkable. For example, there will be bars and bookstores and nail salons, but not a grocery. You can find a fancy clothing store next to an Apple Store and a great Thai restaurant, but no hardware store for miles. Many of these basic items, like food, supplies, etc, are consigned to large box stores in the suburbs, and those substitutes that do exist in 'walkable' areas tend to be extraordinarily expensive 'convenience' stores or trendy niche facilities (a fancy mini-grocery with all the French cheese you could want, but not a bottle of bathroom cleaner to be found).

Basically, sorry to say, if you come here looking for a European town center that contains the basic necessities of life, you're going to be miserable.

Of the cities you listed, most are suburban feeder cities for Washington or Baltimore. Bigger yards, farther apart, no real need for an urban core when people can commute to a bigger city for that. Silver Spring is working very hard to rebuild it's inner core, and there is a decent walkable area around the Discovery Channel headquarters. But it's still focused more on people who drive there to experience a 'walkable city' rather than necessarily people living there buying the day to days of life. Columbia is planned which means so many groceries for so many houses, but I've never really tried it walking. Annapolis also has a downtown area that is very walkable but once you scratch the surface you discover 4 ice cream joints and not a single grocery. Five t-shirt shops but no hardware store, etc. And if you need to visit a doctor, you're in the car.

Even in places like Washington DC proper, you'll discover that very few people walk to get their groceries. It's just not designed that way.

Have you taken a look at city-data? It's really a great website for people relocating, and issues surrounding Fort Meade (Odenton) are discussed nearly every week.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/maryland/

If you are only staying 6 weeks, you might want to try Annapolis. It might be out of your price range long term, but could be fun as a 'mini-break' vs. say Columbia which is basically just staying in a suburb.

Good luck.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 8:14 am
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

Where exactly is your husband working?

Of the places you listed, only Ellicott City has a historic village centre, but as the other poster mentioned, it won't have all the services you require. The old stores now mostly house restaurants and boutiques. But be warned, the Ellicott City post office covers a huge area, so living in Ellicott City could be anywhere from the actual village itself to a suburban townhouse ten miles away.

It sounds like you're looking for a more built up environment rather than a standard suburban community. Have you considered Baltimore at all? Downtown Baltimore has several lovely waterfront communities around its harbour which will have some (although not all) of the services you desire within walkable distance - mostly restaurants, bars and a few shops. The waterfront areas on the south side of the harbour (Federal Hill and Locust Point) are popular with people who commute to DC and to the various government and defence industries complexes in Anne Arundel County.

Hanover and Odenton, MD, are bedroom suburban communities built mostly in the last twenty years. Basic middle class (US middle class, not UK middle class, which is a different socio-economic group). Lots of townhouses. Lots of single family houses on 1/4 - 1/2 acre lots on cul -de sacs. Lots of greenery. No real centre but lots of malls and shopping centres. Think mid-range Barratt housing estates multipled on a much bigger scale.

Severn has nicer areas along the waterfront where the houses are indeed quite expensive. Away from the waterfront the housing is cheaper. Other than the waterfront properties I've never thought of Severn as a pretty community. It's similar to Hanover/Odenton other than the housing stock is slightly older.

Columbia is a masterplanned community that dates back to the late 1960s. It was built around 9 village centres and of all the areas you listed it's probably the most "walkable" for depending on the location of the house, you can walk to the local village centre which will have a supermarket and few other service shops. A large mall is in the centre of Columbia. Thousands of acres were set aside for open green spaces and hundreds of miles of paths and trails criss-cross Columbia. So it's not a bad community at all and it's somewhat similar to the better UK New Towns.

The only areas in the Baltimore - Washington region that have a proper village centre atmosphere with a bit of a high street combined with supermarkets and service shops and doctors' offices, banks, post offices, within walkable distances of many houses - are going to be older, pre-war residential neighbourhoods. In Washington proper, look at along Connecticut and Wisconsin Avenues in NW DC. In Baltimore look at the North Baltimore neighbourhoods of Roland Park. These are gorgeous areas with lovely homes and apartments, and prices to match (although Baltimore will be half the price of DC).

The unfortunate reality is that it seems as if your husband's job is in Anne Arundel County which, outside of historic Annapolis, is a generic suburban sprawl with little redeeming personality or virtue. You will have to make sacrifices - either live close to the office for a shorter commute but sacrifice in terms of community feel and amenities and be very car dependent for everything, or accept a longer commute and go into Baltimore or Washington.

If you want to stay close by the office, Columbia is best for you.

Originally Posted by katjoeuk
I asked a similar question a little while ago but didn't get too many replies - I was wondering whether there are some folks here that know Maryland? I know it's not the most thrilling of states, but it's the one we'll have to live in, so if anyone can tell me a little more about it, I'd be more than grateful!

Place names I've come across:

Hanover
Severn
Odenton
(these would all be close to hubby's work)
Columbia (I know this is a planned community, which I might not be THAT keen on??)
Ellicott City (this is supposed to have somewhat of an historic centre??)
Silver Springs (suburb of DC and probably too far for us to commute)

We're currently looking for temp accommodation for the first 6 weeks - what would be the most central location to drive around and look at houses from? Is there ANYWHERE where we could actually walk to places, rather than always having to drive (shops, restaurants etc.)? Any place that's got a bit of old town charm?

As I said - any info would be much appreciated!!

Thanks very much in advance :-))

Katrin
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 8:54 am
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

Thanks, Guys, for your replies - you're basically confirming what I was thinking....I'll definitely check that city data website, thanks for the tip!

When I said walkable, I didn't mean so much groceries - I'm quite happy to drive to get my groceries as it's usually too much to carry anyway; I was more after something like a High Street with various things and a bit of a city centre feel, but I do realize that in that part of the country, there really aren't a lot of city centres as they are mostly purpose built communities (suburbs).
On the other hand, I'm looking forward to having a relatively nice big house with a bit of land (which is virtually impossible to have here in the UK, unless you really live in the sticks!) I'm going to have to get used to calling it a yard instead of a garden, though....Lots of things I'll have to get used to!!

I think overall, we'll go for commutability over desirable area as I don't want my husband to have to spend ages in the car each day! To be fair, we're pretty homey people anyway - we're usually quite happy to sit on the couch with our two cats, but it was nice here in Cheltenham to have that option of just walking 5 minutes to catch a bus and go downtown (even if we didn't d it very often )
Ididn't know Severn had a waterfront?? Does that not get very muggy in the summer, with loads of mosquitoes etc.? I would love a waterfront location, provided it's not too swampy...

So you think we'd be best of in Columbia for our first 6 weeks? Another option is that Arbors at Arundel in Hanover - or even possibly something a little more interesting like downtown Annapolis or downtown DC. I've been to Baltimore before and didn't really care for it, apart from Fell's Point which I thought was quite charming - but that's a little out of the way for driving around, looking at houses, maybe??
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 12:51 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

I lived in MD for a few years and the only walkable place is Annapolis. It's a great place to live as it's got great historical buildings and you are right on the water. Access to the rest of MD is good too via 301 and 97 and you are close to the Eastern Shore as well.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 8:26 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

Hi katjoeuk,

I'm currently living in Columbia, and I just had to chime in that if you're looking for a town center kind of feel, then Columbia isn't it, because to my knowledge, Columbia doesn't have a town center, it has a huge mall and a lot of other strip malls but no high street to speak of.

My wife and I enjoy heading over to Frederick when we want to get our fix for strolling up and down a town center and meandering in and out of interesting shops (antique, interior design, art, there's even a small British shop there) ... however this is a bit off the path of where you mentioned, about a 40 min drive away from Columbia.

If you do move to Columbia, try to find a home that doesn't belong to a HOA (Home Owner's Association) because it will be cheaper (we belong to a HOA and pay about $1,500 per annum) and you won't have to deal with the bureaucracy (we're currently waiting to be granted permission to cut down a dying tree in our back yard)

Columbia isn't for everyone, my wife and I are thinking we made a mistake in moving here and are making plans to leave, but that's just us!

Last edited by fortunategromit; Sep 11th 2011 at 8:28 pm.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 9:35 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

Oh, I'm soo sorry to read that - it must be awful to realize that, and it's such a big thing, too....making that decision to move again, having to sell the house, finding another one....really sorry!! I do so hope that we won't be in the same situation - that's why we've decided to take our time, even if it means we have to rent for a while (we get 6 weeks paid for initially, but I'm not sure we'll find our dream home within that time frame!!)

I'll take a look at that Frederick you mentioned, but I haven't come across it yet during my research so am afraid it's probably not within the area we're looking at...

Any other ideas, since you live in the area? What do you think of Ellicott City??
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 9:51 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

Originally Posted by katjoeuk
Oh, I'm soo sorry to read that - it must be awful to realize that, and it's such a big thing, too....making that decision to move again, having to sell the house, finding another one....really sorry!! I do so hope that we won't be in the same situation - that's why we've decided to take our time, even if it means we have to rent for a while (we get 6 weeks paid for initially, but I'm not sure we'll find our dream home within that time frame!!)

I'll take a look at that Frederick you mentioned, but I haven't come across it yet during my research so am afraid it's probably not within the area we're looking at...

Any other ideas, since you live in the area? What do you think of Ellicott City??
It's why folks suggest renting for at least 6 months...there's stuff you just won't even think about as being a hassle until you've experienced a winter in a colder area for a start, then you'll have a much better idea of what you'll actually want and what's important.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 10:30 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

It's not such a big deal for us, we just had a new addition to the family and have realized that we don't want for both of us to be working while we have the little one at day care all day ... so we're now less restricted in finding somewhere else to live as we'll only have one commute instead of two.

One very good thing about Columbia is it's location, right in the middle of Baltimore and Washington, although the commute to Washington could take longer than an hour.

I think Frederick would definitely be out of the way for you, we go there on a weekend when we want to visit a place with a town center feel, and, as mentioned before, Annapolis is good for that too.

Ellicott city has a marginally better reputation than Columbia, it just depends on what you like. I know a lot of people LOVE Columbia and Ellicott City, it's just not our cup o' tea I prefer a more rural location where you have more freedom with what to do with the land that you own (grow veggie gardens, hang out washing, put in a decent sized garden shed etc)

Another advantage of Columbia/Ellicott City is that pretty much everything you could need is within a short drive-able distance, plus there are some nice parks, lakes and swimming pools, but there a lot of people in this area so these amenities are often packed on weekends.

Some areas where you could take advantage of Columbia amenities but not have to deal with the association etc. are Clarkesville and Savage. Houses there have a bit more land although Clarkesville homes are more expensive than Columbia. Savage has a small historic area called Savage Mill which has a cake shop/cafe, antique shop and art galleries.

http://www.savagemill.com/

Having said that, I just did a quick search in these areas and there aren't as many homes available as in Columbia or EC.


I think you definitely have the right idea in looking to rent before you buy, as you might now we're still in the middle of a housing market recession where house prices are a bit unstable, although not as bad as they were over the past 4 years. Plus it gives you the flexibility to move as necessary. There are plenty of homes for rent as the market has made a lot of us unwilling landlords!

Last edited by fortunategromit; Sep 11th 2011 at 10:53 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 12:37 am
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

I searched for a place that reminded me of the towns in MA, ie with a center with shops and the only one was Annapolis......unless you go over to Montgomery Co. I found it an easy commute from just north of Annapolis (Severna Park) into Greenbelt, I just took 97 and then the Baltimore Washington Parkway. Trust me towns like Ellicot City and Glen Burnie aren't really towns in the conventional sense, just houses and strip malls. Save yourself a lot of trouble and concentrate on Annapolis. Here's a view of Main Street


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...12,273.25,,0,0
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 4:41 am
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

Annapolis is quite a nice little city but it can be rather expensive, and if your kids need to go to school it can be hit or miss depending on where you live. But the urban core was laid out in the 1600 and 1700's and the proximity to the water is certainly something worth enjoying.

There are quite a few commuters to the "Cybersecurity Corridor" along I-97 from Annapolis to Fort Meade. Many small start-ups and larger tech companies doing consulting for the NSA and DHS are set up in this area so the traffic flow is basically designed to pump them into the base from the surrounding areas.

I recommend http://franklymls.com as a good site in the DC / Baltimore area to review prices and houses (it's on a map so it's easier to flip and choose). Zillow's iPhone app is also something you might want as you drive along as it will give you the history of house prices in a neighborhood.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 8:26 am
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

Excellent info, greatly appreciated! I KNEW it was a good idea to ask here
Will go and check those out immediately!

Nun: Annapolis sounds really nice, and everybody keeps saying so; the problems are that a) it might be too much of a commute for hubby and b) the dollar probably wouldn't get us nearly as far as in the less sought-after areas (obviously, just like anywhere in the world!!).
We'll hopefully get a better idea once we're there - it might be an idea for us to stay in Annapolis for the initial six weeks, but I haven't really come across a lot of short-term accommodation places for Annapolis (there seem to be a lot more in the immediate FM area - Hanover, Odenton etc.)

I think we've got our work cut out for us - and we're also in the final stages of our move, so no time to get bored at the moment
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 3:31 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

I spent some time this summer in Silver Springs working at the FDA research center, I thought it was a really nice town, they have a nice pedestrian town center. It wasnt too far a drive into DC either.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 4:00 pm
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Default Re: Who knows Maryland??

We were thinking of Silver Springs for our temp accommodation (incidentally, my husband was born there His dad worked in DC at the time!). I have read that it's basically only a sleeper suburb of DC with no real centre of it's own, but if you've been there and like it, then that sounds like it could be an option! I think long-term it's going to be a bit far for my husband to commute to work..

Did you stay at an extended stay place of some sort? If so, which one and did you like it??
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