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WEP question for Social Security

WEP question for Social Security

Old Jul 27th 2020, 10:10 pm
  #16  
 
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by Russet View Post
When we retire we will both qualify for the full state pension but will probably only have around 10 years of SS contributions - I may have less than 10. I had assumed that at NRD my husband would apply for his SS receiving his full benefit, when the state pension kicks in this would be WEP'd by approx 50%. A couple of years later I would apply for my SS (at my NRD) and receive a spousal benefit amounting to 50% of his WEP'd SS (so 25%). Suprised to hear I may in fact receive the full 50% of his Primary Insurance amount as the spousal benefit is not subject to WEP. If I understand correctly, as a couple, we would be receiving the equivalent of his full Primary Insurance Amount? His 50% of PIA - WEP'd and my 50% of PIA as spousal benefit.

Definitely confusing, as if I continue to work and accrue more than 40 quarters and claim SS on my own earnings record, we would both be WEP'd due to the state pension. I think I need to get the calculator out again ... But as my benefits are going to be less than his, looks as though we will have a few more unexpected pennies in our retirement budget!
I applied for my SS, in 2015, based on my wife's account. Her SS was worked out with WEP taken into account. I received 50% of the SS she actually received (after WEP). The spouse benefit is not subject to any further WEP on it.
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Old Jul 27th 2020, 10:14 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by Glasgow Girl View Post
Actually if you are subject to the maximum WEP it can add up to tens of thousand of dollars. That money will help me enjoy my retirement just a little more.
Indeed the maximum can be a lot. But what you save in the long term by doing as you suggest isn't. Especially if you don't live that long.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 4:50 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Hi Everyone,
Can I just confirm that is it ok to have both UK state pension and U.S social security at the same time and would each relevant dept (UK DWP and U.S SS) know that an individual was receiving both pensions? Thanks.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 5:14 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

I believe that you have to tell US SS about any foreign pensions you might receive, whether state or private. I think there is declaration on the form that you use to apply. I don’t think the UK cares as there is no impact to your UK state pension. However since I am not at that age yet I will defer to others who have been through the process.

Also be aware that WEP will apply to all foreign pension/retirement income unless it is a result of voluntary NICS or additional voluntary contributions to a company scheme, usually from the old AVC and FSAVC schemes that you could contribute to back in the day. The maximum WEP is calculated from your total WEP’able income not on each source so at least you will never go above the maximum which this year is $463/month regardless of how many sources you may have.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 5:17 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by kathy_FROMFLORIDA View Post
Hi Everyone,
Can I just confirm that is it ok to have both UK state pension and U.S social security at the same time and would each relevant dept (UK DWP and U.S SS) know that an individual was receiving both pensions? Thanks.
Yes it is okay to have both same time. It makes no difference to the OAP if you are receiving SS or not. In June I spoke with someone at the FBU in the US Embassy about claiming SS and she told me to have my OAP record to hand when being interviewed to claim it. I looked up my record on line and DWP clearly shows the number of years that I made voluntary NI contributions, which are not counted in the SS WEP calculation.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 5:22 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Thank you Glasgow Girl,I do remember having to give some paperwork to the U.S SS dept reg my UK state pension amounts,but dont recall having to tell the DWP anything as I wasnt yet receiving my SS.....Do you think the DWP have been told by the SS or should I tell the DWP ? Thanks.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 5:29 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by kathy_FROMFLORIDA View Post
Thank you Glasgow Girl,I do remember having to give some paperwork to the U.S SS dept reg my UK state pension amounts,but dont recall having to tell the DWP anything as I wasnt yet receiving my SS.....Do you think the DWP have been told by the SS or should I tell the DWP ? Thanks.
I have no knowledge on this one, sorry. But I really don’t think DWP in the UK care one way or the other about your US social security so I don’t think you need to be concerned about that. You could always contact DWP and ask them if you are worried about it.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by kathy_FROMFLORIDA View Post
Thank you Glasgow Girl,I do remember having to give some paperwork to the U.S SS dept reg my UK state pension amounts,but dont recall having to tell the DWP anything as I wasnt yet receiving my SS.....Do you think the DWP have been told by the SS or should I tell the DWP ? Thanks.
There is no requirement to tell DWP you are receiving SS. I and Mrs L certainly didn't.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 6:47 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

OK,thank you Ian and Glasgow Girl
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 7:07 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

quick question for Ian if I may.....my UK pension is reduced because I spent most of my time in the U.S,Ive been told that I can now apply(Im in the UK now) for UK pension credit,which is a top up to my reduced state pension,do I still need to mention the SS ? Thank you Ian
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 9:13 pm
  #26  
 
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by kathy_FROMFLORIDA View Post
quick question for Ian if I may.....my UK pension is reduced because I spent most of my time in the U.S,Ive been told that I can now apply(Im in the UK now) for UK pension credit,which is a top up to my reduced state pension,do I still need to mention the SS ? Thank you Ian
The reason you have to inform SS is so they may calculated the reduction in SS if you are subject to the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP). When you claim SS you would need to disclose any UK pension you are in receipt of, or which you expect to receive in the future. Normally once the WEP reduction is calculated any change in your UK pension doesn't need to be reported, it is a one time only calculation.

If you have 30 years of credits in SS you are not subject to WEP, so it's immaterial. There is a link between UK and SS records. As an example you can file a claim for UK State pension at a US SS office. I can't recall anyone on BE saying they were given UK Pension credit after claiming SS and being subject to WEP, therefore no information of what SS might do in those circumstances. If you have been subject to WEP and are in receipt of UK Pension Credit, if it were me I would inform SS, being safe rather than sorry if SS were to say they had overpaid and wanted an amount back if it came to light.

As to how SS might effect a claim for UK Pension credit I have no idea at all. If they ask for details of other income you would need to mention your SS.

ETA: I've just found this online, so yes SS needs to be declared if you claim pension credit.
  • If you're single: If your weekly income (including pension) is below £173.75, pension credit will top you up to this amount.
  • If you're in a couple: If your joint weekly income is below £265.20, you'll get a top up to your combined income to this amount.
Important: The Government will look at all of your income. This includes your basic and additional state pension, any income from other pensions, income from any jobs or social security benefits you have, plus any savings and investments above £10,000.

Last edited by lansbury; Aug 17th 2020 at 9:19 pm.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 10:20 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

OK,Thanks Ian,appreciate it.
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 8:27 am
  #28  
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by kathy_FROMFLORIDA View Post
quick question for Ian if I may.....my UK pension is reduced because I spent most of my time in the U.S,Ive been told that I can now apply(Im in the UK now) for UK pension credit,which is a top up to my reduced state pension,do I still need to mention the SS ? Thank you Ian
For certain you have to report to HMRC and pay applicable taxes on your SS. When it comes to claiming benefits, of which pension credit is a benefit, I expect DWP to want to know about all sources of income so in this case you should report SS to DWP.

As you can see from the link below, all pensions are used to calculate if one qualifies for pension credit plus how much savings one has.

https://www.gov.uk/pension-credit/eligibility
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 5:47 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

For certain you have to report to HMRC and pay applicable taxes on your SS
Durham Lad are you sure about this?
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 6:32 pm
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Default Re: WEP question for Social Security

Originally Posted by kathy_FROMFLORIDA View Post
For certain you have to report to HMRC and pay applicable taxes on your SS
Durham Lad are you sure about this?
If you are still resident in the UK which I assume you are since you are asking about UK pension credit then the tax treaty between the countries says that only the UK taxes SS. I am in a similar situation.

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