gpc

Facts? Crap, more like. You want facts? Then see the definitive study of comparative crime rates in the US and England, "Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and Wales, 1981-96," by Patrick A. Langan, Ph.D. (BJS Statistician) and David P. Farrington, Ph.D. (BJS Visiting Fellow, University of Cambridge), October 1998, NCJ169284. Among other things, this study demonstrated that:

1. In 1981, the US robbery rate was nearly double England's. By 1995, the English robbery rate was 1.4-times America's.

2. In 1981, the English assault rate was slightly higher than the US's, but by 1995 the English assault rate grew to more than double America's.

3. In 1981, the US burglary rate was more than double England's. By 1995, the English burglary rate was more than double America's.

4. In 1981, the English motor vehicle theft rate was 1.5-times the US's. By 1995, that spread had widened to more than double America's rate.

These rates have continued to diverge since 1995.

In addition, the Third International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland in 1998, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialised nations -- 26% there had been victims of violent crime. (Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimised.) The US didn't even make the top ten.

As for racism, you're talking out of your arse, as they say over here. The US is demonstrably the LEAST anti-Semitic nation on earth: just ask the Anti-Defamation League. Racism? Xenophobia? A country that has welcomed rich and poor immigrants from all over the world for two centuries on the one hand; British towns that still can't assimilate a handful of Bangladeshis on the other. They don't call 'em "Little Englanders" for nothing, y'know. I always laugh when I read some ignoramus in the Guardian write that London is now more diverse than New York, based on a comparison between Camden Town and the Upper East Side. God forbid they should take the 7 train out to Queens.

Slaves? Yeh, the US had them, back when the slaveholders were all Englishmen or the near descendents of Englishmen. England didn't have them, but then again England didn't have cotton plantations. The KKK? Oooooo, how powerful or influential has the KKK been for the last 50 years or so? About as powerful and influential as old Oswald Moseley and the NF were in Britain, that's how much.

By the way, those weren't throngs of my fellow Londoners I saw marching in the streets in the late '70s, were they, screaming over their bullhorns for the blacks to get out of the country? Good heavens no, nofink like that in the UK!

As for philanthropy, Americans are among the world's most generous givers on a percentage of income basis, and higher than the English. The percentage of Americans that volunteer time and effort for charitable causes is also far higher.

Cheers.

frrussre

GPC, is that your real name?
Guess you prefer, murder to Car theft?

No, White only buses 1960's UK.
No, white only schools 1960's UK.
No, white only schools 2003 UK.
No, white only Golf Clubs UK 2003


You hear about those Golf Clubs & Country Clubs in USA, NO JEWS & whites only.

It's still, going on in USA, praying in the morning hiding behind a hood in the evening.

Come to NYC 100,000 of apartments Co-ops & some Condo's, with Board approval. You can have $10 million in your pocket you still can't get one.
Tell me any home in UK like that. In UK buyer/seller exchange money end of story.

If you are blind to the racism in your country, no point in continuing this conversation.
Hey, I accept there is crime in UK. I accept there is some racism in UK. I accept UK cars went down hill, that’s why we sold them all out. UK did not put tariffs on imports & subsidized the local makers. I have no problem finding fault with the UK.
You are the one wearing a blindfold.

We are not discussing the rights & wrongs of 500 years ago or 200 years ago or 100 years ago. I am talking about now USA Now UK, Now Europe. You are still doing this stuff now 2003.

Forget, Miami/NYC/Chicago/LA look at the heartlands.

Frank R.

I bet your choking & spitting in your grits. "How dare he critise MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY country". I bet you are watching your RCA TV & polishing your shotgun.

frrussre

Quote by GPC:

"England didn't have them ""SLAVES HE MEANS"", but then again England didn't have cotton plantations".


GPC, I must tell my friends, " It was the Cotton Plantations that caused the slavery".

Wow, I will tell them it's okay. The dilema has been solved.

Your the one Numero UNO!!!!!!!


Frank R. No hood always upfront.

Patrick

I am so going to kill Mr Hughes (my high school History teacher) because he taught us all about the British Slave trade and how it was abolished by an act of parliament in 1812 (I think I can't remember back 22 years). The bastard also lied to me about the Plantation owners in the Carolinas who came down from the North (NY and PA) and started using slaves (under the British Governers consent of course) and then Southerners thought they needed to get slice of the Pie.

Mr Hughes the lying Bastard, thanks GPC for putting me straight on British History

Patrick

gpc

Not sure what your point is. That the British showed their moral superiority by abolishing slavery earlier in the 19th century than the US did? Or, on the contrary, that they were in fact complicit in the exercise of the practise in America? If the latter, I agree. In any case, Mr. Hughes presumably also taught you that Britain supported the South in the Civil War because of the reliance of British merchants on the cotton trade.

Patrick

My point is the British had slavery, you point blank denied we had slavery of any kind - I typed this reply slowly so you could understand it.

In the civil war the french support the north yet strangley Britain are your friends and the french couldn't be more hated if they had flown those planes into the twin towers themselves!

If History teaches us anything it is that history is written by the victors. Therefor all the bad things that the victors did (Almost Genocide of the Indians for example) are overlooked.

At the end of the day your whole point was which country has a worse crime rate. Britain has a worse mugging and car crime rate, the burglary rate is also slightly higher but the US has more gun crime (seeing as guns and knives are banned in the UK that would make sense).

The problem is that it is a silly argument - if you live in New York city or LA you are more likely to be a victim of crime especially if you are in south central LA. If you are in Manchester or London you are more at risk of being a victim of crime. If you live in Kansas or on the fens you are less likley to be a victim of crime. Like most things in life it is all relative so simple stastics only prove you can prove anything with statistics

Patrick

gpc

LOL. Grits! RCA TV!! Shotgun!!! Stop you're killing me! You're a bleedin' laff riot, son! More of our famous British humour! Did you write for Eric and Ronnie?

You brought up slavery, but now we're not talking about the rights and wrongs of 200 or 100 years ago? Make up your mind will you.

Firstly, I am fully aware of the deficiencies of this country, as you claim (half-heartedly) to be of those of the UK. The difference (thankfully, though, not the only one) is that I don't get my jollies by spending an apparently large number of my waking hours on an expat bulletin board snidely putting down my host country via gross generalizations with little or no basis in fact that, as often as not, can be turned around and pissed right back in the face of old blighty.

And the New York co-ops, oh mercy! Boohoohoo, the co-op board won't let me and my $10 million in! And here I was thinking that a royal title was the only thing you couldn't buy. (Hmm, come to think of it, I'm probably wrong about that.) Maybe money isn't everyfing to those Yanks after all. One thing is for sure: it ain't racism; more likely that the prospective tenant is a celebrity and the board wants a nice quiet discreet resident. Ask Madonna and various loud investment bankers.

And since you asked about murder (what, no refutation of the higher British robbery and assault rates?), the gap is narrowing quickly. If the British murder rate increases as it has since 1981 for another 20 years and the American murder rate decreases as it has since 1981 for another 20 years, the British rate will exceed the US's.

gpc

Another charm school graduate, huh? Write a civil reply to an obnoxious post, get a gratuitous insult in return. LOL. And we wonder why the Continent clears out when they see us coming.

If you read the posts, you'd see that I did not choose the "silly argument." I was simply responding to another poster who suggested broadly that Britain had some dramatic advantage over the US in the matter of violent crime, which isn't the case.

Also not sure I see the irony in the US not treating the British and French today based on where they stood in the mid-19th century.

Patrick

Did I miss something, where was the gratuitous insult? If you are insulted by the typing slowly joke then america is in much worse shape than I thought. I would also go out and buy a dictionary if I where you as my reply was caustic and obnoxious.

You know I noticed that your posting was in responce to someone else, it doesn't change the fact that it is all relative and the argument itself cannot be won by statistics.

I didn't see the relevance of you bringing up the fact the British where on the side of the confederates in the first place. If I wanted a history lesson I would go back to school.

My whole point is still that is it relative - if you live in Liverpool there is a higher chance of your car being nicked. If you live in LA there is more chance of you being a victim of crime. Stastitics aren't worth a hoot, did you know 1 in 4 americans make up a quarter of the population!

Patrick

simon bland

As you're in the US now Patrick, shouldn't that be, that 1 in 4 Americans, make up one fourth of the population!!!

Patrick

I thought it was 1 in 4 americans accounts for a quarter of the mass of the planet!