Water heater replacement
 

Hi all,

Did not want to hijack another thread entirely. First quote:

80 gallon unit, 8 year warranty plus 10 feet of exhaust pipe to get to code, quoted at $4500, inclusive of labor, equipment and warranty.

My question is, is this reasonable??

I was expecting ~3000

Re: Water heater replacement
 

$3k would be reasonable in NC, and that is, precisely, what I paid last summer in NC for all inclusive installation of a 50gal HE gas water heater with a new flue installed through the wall. I suspect that $4.5k may be the "market rate" in Boston, MA for an 80gal water heater. .... Are you replacing an 80gal heater? Unless your home has 5+ bedrooms, I would say that 50gal would be the usual choice - modern water heaters have a fairly high recovery rate, so in many respects the number of bathrooms (the peak demand in a short time frame) is more relevant than the number of bedrooms or people living in a home.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I did an electric one a year ago, brought a 50 Gallon Rheem Smart Water Heater for about $634 + Tax. Pickup from HD, and install including plumbing and taking away old one was $700. This is a pretty simple task, I could probably do it myself with another strong person if I had it delivered.

Now if your talking about gas it gets way more expensive, my boiler and water heater replacement was $12k+ back in 2015 in Lower FFC CT, so likely more now. How much is the unit, is it more or less than 50% of the quote?

Re: Water heater replacement
 

He is talking about gas, unless you can think of a reason why an electric water heater would require (per post #1) "... 10 feet of exhaust pipe to get to code". :unsure:

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Yes, correct! Gas!

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I paid $1500 for a 40 Gallon tank in 2015. The tank is in my garage though so that reduces the labor cost somewhat. Here is NC we have quite alot of houses that have their tank in the attic and that pushes labor cost up quite a bit.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

maybe on a electric heat pump water heater, not sure either way unless the OP gives details of what he is quoted on no one can really compact to costs paid.

I wanted to go with one of these but they are take than the space I have in the existing space :



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Pe...45U0/312742081

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Limited info on the quote (getting a second one also). Gas water heater, 78 gallons, 8 year warranty and ten feet of exhaust pipe to get to code. That is it (inc labor).

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Do they mention the brand and model of the water heater? With some of them the warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on. Not to mention they vary wildly in price.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

my guy always gives me 2 or 3 different options and all the model numbers so I can research and when applicable rebates that apply.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

If you buy a reputable brand you'd have to be very unlucky for a basic water heater to not last at least 3-4 times the standard 6 year warranty* on most water heaters. There are few or no moving parts in a water heate, and other than the thermocouple on a gas heater there isn't much that could go wrong with them. .... Eventually they rust through somewhere and start leaking.

* A warranty is just a bet by the manufacturer that their product will last that long, and they're unlikely to offer to make that bet if they don't expect to win it. Even without replacing the anode rod, round here (NC) water heaters seem to typically last around 25 years. On the broader issue of domestic appliances, I have only ever had one, a washing machine, fail within the five year extended warranty period, which confirms my strategy of never buying an extended warranty on a domestic appliance . Even after unexpectedly having to buy another washing machine, I believe I am still "up" by somewhere around $4k-$5k by not buying extended warranties. :thumbsup:

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Why 80 gallons? Just curious.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

How many bathrooms and people living in house. 80 gallons is Huge.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Stored water heater as opposed to tankless??

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Stored, 2nd quote coming on Friday, have a better feel about them, more upfront about costs. Will update then as well!

Our zip code doesnt help either

Re: Water heater replacement
 

an 80 gallon tankless…. 🥺

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I havnt googled it yet ;)

Also, I suspect I will raise getting a smaller tank on Friday!

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I would definitely ask about the exact model, may they have marked it up a lot and don’t want you to be able to to google it… or maybe they are trying to install something they have in stock they want to get rid of. 80 gallon would be what I would expect if it was a townhouse with 1 or 2 smaller income properties in the basement etc and it was to service all 2/3 units not a normal size family property with 2-2.5 baths.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Agreed, Friday involves a second company so I can maneuver into a better negotiating position. Will go from there.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I am pretty sure that is how the plumbing supply business works - they buy inventory, then then they try to sell it to customers ASAP. :nod: Holding stock and not trying to get rid of it is unlikely to be a successful business model in the long term. :unsure:

Re: Water heater replacement
 

The best way to compare prices is to learn what a water heater should cost. I would go with a 50 to 60 gallon and check with a couple plumbing supply places for model info and prices. Most are made by AO Smith and names stuck on for various companies.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Google is your friend. :)

Re: Water heater replacement
 

No, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned a tankless water heater, Far more efficient,

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Loathsome creations. .... They are perhaps a little more efficient, but they create their own issues, running very hot, and then cold. They seemed to be super-fashionable around 10 years ago, but barely got a mention when I was shopping for a new water heater last year.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I evaluated that option when I converted from oil to gas for heat and hot water. Between price, rebates and energy efficiency, demand pattern and the space available for install, I did not go that way.

Not sure that I would say “far more efficient” I think it was a TriangleTube I looked at has a thermal efficiency of 95% vs the combined GV90+ boiler for heat and hot water at 91%, and there was some more efficiency have 1 vs 2 separate boilers… the oil boiler it replaced was more than 35 years old and still going strong, but the incentives to go to gas made it a no brainer have everything new. Once we get solar on this house will look at a heat pump electric water heater.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Plus you need a lot of power to run which means hard to retrofit due to number of slots needed in service panel. I believe they require two 220 volt circuits which is 4 spaces. Lowe’s has a lot of AO Smith gas water heaters on their site. Most are 40 or 50 gallon and around $800. Gas tankless of course would be easier and may be more reasonable as a choice as they may work better than electric

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Actually not loathsome creations as long as you chose a reputable brand but more importantly, you pull in a plumber who knows what he's doing and matches a heater to your incoming gas and water supply. As long as they are set up properly, the flame will modulate down and prevent the water going cold mid flow. If it does, 99% of the time, high/low gas rates have not been set up.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

This is exactly why I did not do one at another property, this is a second home so it would have made a lot of sense, but the place where it would have been installed was on an old 100amp panel, it was the original main and converted to a sub panel when 200amp service was put in and no easy way to run a new circuit.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Or you could just put in an HE water tank, no careful set up and flow adjustment required. :lol:

I was thinking, after I made my previous post above, that during the summer months, basically April to October for us, the only gas we use is to heat water, and our gas bill is about $25-$30, of which about $10 is the standing charge, so hotwater costs us about $20/mth. How much more efficient does a tankless heater have to be to make it noticeably more efficient in $$$s?

Personally I value being able to turn on the tap and have a steady flow of hot water at a predictable temperature, and I think that $20/mth is a reasonable price to pay for that comfort and certainty. So, even if a tankless heater provided FREE hot water, I'd still choose a traditional water heater with a tank. :nod:

Re: Water heater replacement
 

80 gallons! Wow! OK, only 2 of us and just one bathroom but ours is just 80 Litres - and is quite adequate! How heavy is an 80 gallon tank / heater? (I could Google it but Mr P will give me a much better answer!).

Re: Water heater replacement
 

:p

Well off the top of my head, for an 80gal water heater there would be about 665lb of water, and probably about 100lb for the tank, for a total of about just about 350 Kommigrams. :)

ETA. Apparently an 80gal water heater from AO Smith weighs 175lb, so that would make a total of 840lb or 385 Kommigrams.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

350 kommigrams, wow, that's about 200 freedomgrams, scary!

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I installed only a 30 gallon in the house I built 5 years ago. Electric tank type and plenty for two people. Does posters have an expansion tank in their hot water heaters? I put one on mine as I discovered their existence doing research on plumbing when doing my house. The theory is during the heating of the water it expands and with almost all water systems there is a back flow preventer valve at the meter and the this pressure has no where to go. Can lead to premature tank failure especially if the anode is not looked after. Here is my expansion tank as I installed.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...103b3d8fa8.jpg

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Installation looks fine to me, but does it have the cat's approval?

Re: Water heater replacement
 

My wife has three cats in the house and feeds several strays on the porch.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Temperature/pressure relief valve discharge should terminate outside or into a sealed internal drain. If that TPRV blows, it could vent almost boiling water at 10 bar......be too much for that drip tray to handle. Be careful.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

That’s a good point. I could probably run a hose to the drip tray drain line with a one way valve to prevent the flow from going into tray. I will look into that.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

You should look into what the TN code allows. In NC the pipe from the relief valve cannot, for some reason be pex (my guess is that pex is usually slightly curved so can't be positioned to reliably drain into the pan), it has to be either copper or PVC, so I suspect that a flexible hose might not be acceptable.

It is usual in my experience to just have the pipe from the relief run down to the drip tray, as a working relief valve should never do more than dribble a bit. The whole purpose of the valve is to stop pressure build up, not allow it to build up to a dangerous degree, then let go dramatically! If the valve "fails" by seizing and not allowing excess pressure to be released then all bets are off and where the water would have drained if the valve had worked properly will be the least of your problems, but if you watched Mythbusters you already know that. :blink:
Just a couple of weeks before the original Mythbusters water heater episode aired (I think there were at least three of them), a house a few miles away from Pulaski Manor had a water heater failure. The water heater left the home through the roof, and was found a couple of hundred feet away! :scaredhair:

So the main takeaway from this discussion is to test the valve regularly - I think the usual recommendation is every six months.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

I had some time this morning and have bought the items needed to run a pipe down to the drip pan drain. I remember now that at my other house I did similar. My drip pan is connected not to the house drain but to a 3 inch pvc pipe that runs to attic for a radon pump. Below this three inch pipe connects to a inside foundation complete perimeter French drain that is under the slab gravel backfill that varies from 2 to 5 feet of gravel.

Re: Water heater replacement
 

Not with mine, there are all water sensors at the bottom of my heater that shut the heater and water off in the event it detects water so I have to have the pipe go directly to the drainage pipe for the washing machine or at least that's the plan once I get around to getting the bits I need. It's a PITA drying it out once it detects water but still better than having to dry out 2 rooms that got flooded when the first heater I replaced pissed water everywhere.