Steerpike

The question you have to ask is, 'what difference does it make'? I'd put my politics somewhere close to Biden or Obama; definitely to the right of Bernie, definitely to the left of Trump (or Bush). SF and Berkeley are way too liberal for me, but ... other than their mis-handling of the homeless situation (I feel that tougher-love is needed - complex topic), the 'politics' doesn't affect me and even the homeless situation is 'focused' in areas I never frequent. Having said that ... I'm proud to live in an area where Planned Parenthood can operate without harassment, and where gays can marry and live without harassment.

I've heard that, in many parts of the 'south' (bible belt), if you don't go to church, you are not accepted into society. Obviously that's hearsay as I haven't lived there, but it sounds awful to me! I've also been to a lot of places around the country where I haven't been able to buy beer easily - used to be a pain when I drank!

But you are focusing on major cities - SF, LA, London, etc. I live in a medium-sized (60,000 population), affluent town about 30 miles away from SF. It has shops, houses, parks, and open-spaces like many other towns. I'd suggest you'd be hard-pressed to tell it from a similar-sized town in many other parts of the country other than, perhaps, the very diverse restaurant situation and the reasonably diverse population. There's a 3,800 ft mountain within the city limits, and the whole town is surrounded by pleasant foothills populated with oak trees. I can walk out of my front door and hit a trail rising 1,000 feet for daily exercise. I can drive or ride public transport into downtown SF if I desire - a 35 minute ride. You don't see rain after about April until November (admittedly, this is becoming an issue due to droughts, and is leading to our dangerous fire season), and the humidity is 'perfect' throughout the summer - never a hot, sticky day.

I'd say it's prejudiced for the following reason. In 2009 I was unexpectedly transferred to the Phoenix metro for work. I had previously hated the place, based on a few short business trips. To cut a long story short, I found that I loved the place, bought a home there, and now keep that home even though the work requirement went away. I decided then that it's not wise to form strong opinions about a place without actually living there!

The crowding / population density / commute situation can be a challenge if you can't find work close to home. For much of my career, though, I worked in downtown SF in a building that was right on the 'bart' (train) station, so it was easy. My last full-time job in the area did introduce commute difficulties - but I made 'sufficient' money to make it worthwhile and allow me to retire early, so I'm not complaining. Now I'm retired and I am not impacted by the commute situation at all. My town is a low-density sprawling suburb that doesn't feel crowded at all.

All I can say is, you have to live here to understand. Our winters are 'negligible' also (too much rain for my liking, but I hate any rain!). But the spring/summer/fall times are ideal. Warm days, cool nights. We can almost always open our windows at sundown and don't have to run AC. Threats of wildfires are real; aren't you similarly threatened by hurricanes, or whatever?
I don't agree with SF politics in general but - as you say - I can totally ignore it. I am proud to be in an area that has Planned Parenthood offices, and where gay people can get married and live normal lives.

My last house here (recently sold) was on half an acre, but (together with two neighboring houses) surrounded by many acres of 'protected open space'. We had deer, racoons, skunks, squirrels, fox, wild turkeys, woodpeckers, blue jays, hawks, owls, hummingbirds, all right outside our window. Now I'm in an area that is surrounded by hills on 3 sides. I can drive to the town-center in 15 minutes or less, but I feel like I'm in the country. You can certainly buy houses that sit on several wooded acres; not that I could afford it but they are readily available!

This is the view from my window:

There's a road in the foreground that leads to my place, and across that road is a steep hill covered in trees. That's where I hike every day. From the top of that hill, I can see this:



and I can look back over my 'development' and see this:


Or I can walk a few minutes and see this:



As I continue my hike, I reach another high-point and - less than 3 miles from where I started, I see this:


As you can see, trees and hills that stretch as far as the eye can see. Now, buried in the picture above is highway 680, a very busy freeway, together with a dozen towns / cities ... but you don't get a sense of being 'crowded' by any means.

Pulaski

That is totally untrue hearsay in my experience. I have been asked once which church I attend, and after one experience about 15 years ago, decided it wasn't for me - a decision confirmed over the past 5 months.

I can assure you, and anyone else who has formed opinions about how horrific life in "the bible belt" is, that my overwhleming experience of living here, and travelling around the Carolinas, Tennessee, and Virginia is that of "live and let live". People generally keep themselves to themselves, and mind their own business, on pretty much all personal matters. I have had neighbours who were Indian and were black and there are several other black families down the road, but I am pleased to report a complete absence of burning crosses and nooses hanging from trees.

Re alcohol - yes there are still some dry counties, and we have made the mistake a couple of times in sitting down in a restaurant and finding that no alcohol was available on Sunday, or at all. But every year or two another town puts alcohol sales on a referendum, and every single time the decision is to allow alcohol sales.

On a related note, North Carolina was one of the first states, certainly in the South, to liberalze the brewing laws, notably lifting the cap on alcohol from 6% to [not sure, maybe 12%?] which set off an unbelievable revolution in brewing, where the state went from literally a handful of breweries to there being over 100 - the last figure I saw was somewhere around 140 breweries. The law was changed based on a referendum, with some pretty ludicous campaigning by churches, who clearly had no idea that craft beer at 7% is not the sort of beer that you buy a case of and then sit on the porch and demolish the whole case - their prediction of unlimited drunked debauchery in the streets and the end of civilization as we know it was a little wide of the mark! This explosion in brewing followed a similar explosion in viticulture and winemaking - going from single figures to, I think somewhere around 70 wineries. The direct result of this explosion in alcohol production has been to stimulate the opening of numerous winebars and restaurants. So in the 17 years I have lived here we have gone from the best beer option was usually Sam Adams, and there weren't many dining options outside of Charlotte and Raleigh, other than Applebees and chain steakhouses, whereas now there is an embarrasment of choices.
No, not in any meaningful sense.

The last hurricane to come through my neck of the woods was in 1989, and that was memorable (by those who kived here at the time) precisely because it was so extraordinary.

There have been reported "tornadoes" but one was reported near a farm and to have ripped some limbs off a tree, another one crossed a parking lot, removed some guttering from a grocery and then spun away into a field and petered out. One down in SC removed some roofing shingles and guttering from a few houses. Tell anyone from Oklahoma or Kansas that these were "tornadoes" and they would problably die laughing. That said there was one "real": tornado within a hundred miles or so that I remember, that was in a populated area. and did some serious damage, though remarkably it didn't do significant damage to any homes, nor did it injure anyone.

Steerpike

So there you go, best not to judge places if you haven't lived there!

You also said, in your earlier reply, "why do you have the desire to relocate to a state that fairly large numbers of Americans are leaving," It's true that there is a net movement out of CA of 'Americans', and yet - the population of CA is increasing. How is that? Because people are flocking in from all over the world due to the high paying jobs. This has been discussed at length elsewhere. (and yes, this is pre-Covid - all bets are off for now).

Giantaxe

Yes my irony meter went off the scale at Pulaski’s response.

Lots of people move out of California when they retire, in the same way that many move away from London etc at that point in their lives. Moving from higher cost to lower cost areas at that point is pretty much a staple the world over.

civilservant

Before I moved here, that was my view of the area too, but I am happy to say that it isn't true. Now people, even in a work setting, do talk about their religion freely - as an example, any time we have a training at work that involves lunch being provided someone is asked to say a prayer (which I politely close my eyes and bow my head for, out of respect) but I have never been asked what church I go too.

I actually am very open about the fact that I don't believe, and I do get some incredulous looks when they realize that I do not believe, have never been baptized, was not married in a Church, and have about as much interest in going to heaven or hell as I do in visiting the North Pole.

I do however work in a dry county, which since I don't drink, I don't care about

Everywhere has it's stereotypes, and I agree if you haven't lived there you have no idea what it's really like.

Moses2013

Looks nice but what could the OP afford, or let's say a first time buyer not wanting a huge mortgage. So would a decent 3 bed house under $250K be possible there?

retzie

Why exactly are we debating the merits (or lack thereof) of living in California, when the OP has told us that the move would be to be with a significant other?

Steerpike

1) the point of a forum is that others can benefit from the content of a post. So correcting mis-information about California is a service to others who may be considering a move to California
2) we are in the middle of a pandemic where many avenues for entertainment are closed off, so discussing this is better than reading facebook or twitter.

mrken30

This type of thing is more prevalent than I knew in Idaho and Oregon, along with the persecution of the Catholics by the KKK. The ironic thing in Portland, the big field that the KKK used to hold their meetings is now sponsored by a large Catholic non-profit.

If you want to find a Klan near you, here is the map https://labs.library.vcu.edu/klan/learn and yes there are a lot in the Corlinas, I'm sure Pulaski has a local Klavern. Oregon just has the top 10 cities, https://www.roadsnacks.net/most-raci...ies-in-oregon/

Steerpike

You would likely not move here if you needed a 3 bedroom house on arrival.

Many people don't want or need a 3 bed house, especially when starting out. When I first came to CA I rented a room in a house, then bought myself a small condo, then traded up and up from there. When I sold my last house, for over $1m, it was bought by a young professional couple. He was a senior IT exec, she was a lawyer. They were first-time buyers. My good friend's daughter just graduated from UCLA and immediately got a job in LA with a major bank; starting salary $80k with a $5k signing bonus. So she's taking home probably $4,600 / mo. She's renting an apartment with a friend and feels quite comfortable. My nephew re-trained in the IT field a few years ago and his first job was paid over $100k. He was renting an apartment with his partner for a few years, who's also an IT worker and makes a similar amount. Earlier this year, mid-pandemic, they bought a wonderful 3 bedroom home with a spectacular view of the valley in east San Jose for about $1.2M. They are both first time buyers.

Pulaski

Mostly you have confirmed the views expressed, that Califormia is horrendously expensive and does not offer a significantly different quality of life you can find in the SE, and I am tired of trying to correct the wilful and stubborn refusal to accept on-the ground info about life in the rural south east. Yes, there are churches, but if you ignore them they might as well not be there.

Some people seem to have taken their cultural references from Deliverance, and it is quite frankly ridiculous that stereotypes about dry countries and KKK meetings are being offered by people who do lot live here as serious points for discussion!

civilservant

Come on now Mr P, take a breath, we're all friends here

ddsrph

The southeast is not the SE of fifty years ago. So many people have moved here from northern cities and more than a few from other parts of the world that the place has changed from its older stereotypes. Politics is too right wing for me but I have found religion is non intrusive. I don’t go to church and have never been asked about religion.

tom169

If we are talking about KKK stereotypes in NC in 2020 then we may as well drag up all of the CA gang stereotypes from times gone by?

But seriously... We know every area has pros and cons and is heavily dependent on the priorities/opinions of the person.

Probably won't get anywhere trying to convince the other side that any grass is greener.

Hell, plenty of folks refuse to even consider the USA because of what they see about guns. And you'd be hard pressed convincing my American family to consider moving to the UK from all of the NHS horror stories they read (some I correct, some I agree with).

Steerpike

But none of us in CA are being willful and stubborn about your life in the rural south east. This was never a thread about life in the rural southwest and my brief comment about church was qualified clearly as follows: "Obviously that's hearsay as I haven't lived there". The comment about dry counties seems to have been confirmed by at least two posters.

Your comment "does not offer a significantly different quality of life you can find in the SE" is entirely subjective, depending on your personal desires. If you want space, privacy, a big place to park vehicles, access to guns, low cost of living, then it's obviously appealing. I don't want or need a lot of land, I've downsized to 1400 sq ft of living space voluntarily, but I love the fact I can visit a wide range of 'ethnic' restaurants, that my neighbors come from all over the world, that gays are treated as equals, that planned parenthood operates without challenge, and so on. I've spent at least 50% of my time over the past 10 years in Scottsdale, which in many regards is probably similar to the 'South East' from a political, cultural and cost standpoint, and ... let's just say I love it for the scenery, hiking and the winter weather, but not much else; which is why I abandoned my plan to relocate there permanently despite the numerous advantages.