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-   -   USA vs Australia (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/usa-vs-australia-942368/)

imacd Jan 15th 2022 1:27 pm

USA vs Australia
 
Not really interested in getting into whether or not Djokovic should be allowed to enter Australia without being vaccinated, but more about comparing the immigration policies of the two countries.

If I have got this right, on flying into the US, if you do not have citizenship or a green card, and are not seeking asylum, then even with a legal visa, immigration officials can refuse you entry and send you packing, without even an explanation or the ability to appeal to an immigration judge? Is this true for all types of visa's?

It appears Australia affords you the right to appeal through the courts?

Can someone more knowledgeable than me, tell me if I have understood this correctly? If not, what is the main difference, if any, between the two countries?

christmasoompa Jan 15th 2022 1:32 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by imacd (Post 13088254)
If I have got this right, on flying into the US, if you do not have citizenship or a green card, and are not seeking asylum, then even with a legal visa, immigration officials can refuse you entry and send you packing, without even an explanation or the ability to appeal to an immigration judge? Is this true for all types of visa's?

Isn't that true of every country? Only citizens have the right to enter a country, everybody else is just knocking on the door and asking to be let in. It's up to the immigration/border officials as to whether they open the door or slam it in their face.


imacd Jan 15th 2022 1:46 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 13088256)
Isn't that true of every country? Only citizens have the right to enter a country, everybody else is just knocking on the door and asking to be let in. It's up to the immigration/border officials as to whether they open the door or slam it in their face.

I do not know and hence my question. Does it not appear that in Australia, you have the right to appeal in front of a judge, rather than just be booted out?

kimilseung Jan 15th 2022 2:37 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 
He was admitted in to the country on a visa. Maybe that admittance is the difference. Would he have been able to remain and appeal if initially refused entry?

imacd Jan 15th 2022 2:43 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13088272)
He was admitted in to the country on a visa. Maybe that admittance is the difference. Would he have been able to remain and appeal if initially refused entry?

Maybe, I do not know. If you try to enter the US legally on say a visitors visa and they suspect you of working or getting married once emitted, then without proof or even explanation, is it not the case that you can be turned around and sent home?

kimilseung Jan 15th 2022 2:47 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by imacd (Post 13088273)
Maybe, I do not know. If you try to enter the US legally on say a visitors visa and they suspect you of working or getting married once emitted, then without proof or even explanation, is it not the case that you can be turned around and sent home?

I think once admitted on a visa you have access to law in the USA. I am not particularly knowledgeable, I am sure someone better informed than me will be along soon.

christmasoompa Jan 15th 2022 3:07 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by imacd (Post 13088273)
Maybe, I do not know. If you try to enter the US legally on say a visitors visa and they suspect you of working or getting married once emitted, then without proof or even explanation, is it not the case that you can be turned around and sent home?

I think it's only the VWP where you can be turned around and returned home - and that's because as part of the VWP (which is visa exempt) you waive your right to an appeal.


SanDiegogirl Jan 15th 2022 3:57 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by imacd (Post 13088273)
Maybe, I do not know. If you try to enter the US legally on say a visitors visa and they suspect you of working or getting married once emitted, then without proof or even explanation, is it not the case that you can be turned around and sent home?


If you try to enter the US on say, the VWP, then if the border official suspects you may not leave at end of 90 days, yes, you can be refused admission - no appeal.

You can quite legally enter the US to marry on the VWP or any tourist visa. You just can't stay after the ceremony but must return to home country to apply for spouse visa.

vespucci Jan 15th 2022 8:06 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by imacd (Post 13088254)
Not really interested in getting into whether or not Djokovic should be allowed to enter Australia without being vaccinated, but more about comparing the immigration policies of the two countries.

If I have got this right, on flying into the US, if you do not have citizenship or a green card, and are not seeking asylum, then even with a legal visa, immigration officials can refuse you entry and send you packing, without even an explanation or the ability to appeal to an immigration judge? Is this true for all types of visa's?

It appears Australia affords you the right to appeal through the courts?

Can someone more knowledgeable than me, tell me if I have understood this correctly? If not, what is the main difference, if any, between the two countries?

The US is far more welcoming to the undocumented than Australia.

lansbury Jan 16th 2022 5:17 am

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 13088256)
Isn't that true of every country? Only citizens have the right to enter a country, everybody else is just knocking on the door and asking to be let in. It's up to the immigration/border officials as to whether they open the door or slam it in their face.

That is not true for the UK, it changed some years back while I was still working at Heathrow. If a person arrives in the UK on a visa issued by a UK Embassy, the Chief Immigration Officer can only refuse entry if they have reasonable grounds for believing the visa was improperly obtained.

durham_lad Jan 16th 2022 10:54 am

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by lansbury (Post 13088352)
That is not true for the UK, it changed some years back while I was still working at Heathrow. If a person arrives in the UK on a visa issued by a UK Embassy, the Chief Immigration Officer can only refuse entry if they have reasonable grounds for believing the visa was improperly obtained.


We spent 6 months in Australia in 2014 and while there watched a number of reality Australian Border Control programs where that seemed to be the situation there. If the admitting officer was suspicious at all then the visitor's visa application would be examined and the visitor refused entry if it was proven that he had improperly obtained the visa.

Pollyana Jan 16th 2022 4:10 pm

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by durham_lad (Post 13088384)
We spent 6 months in Australia in 2014 and while there watched a number of reality Australian Border Control programs where that seemed to be the situation there. If the admitting officer was suspicious at all then the visitor's visa application would be examined and the visitor refused entry if it was proven that he had improperly obtained the visa.

They don't even have to prove that the visa was obtained improperly. There are occasions when people have done everything right, got their working holiday visas or tourists visas, and just because the officer at point of entry thinks that they might break the rules of the visa, they can refuse them entry. Something as simple as thinking that the 20-something person in front gf them might want to work while they are here, but they only hold a tourist visa. They can't proof that intention, but they don't need to. They can refuse entry anyway. Straight on the next plane home.

retzie Jan 17th 2022 12:00 am

Re: USA vs Australia
 
^Sounds exactly the same as the US then:


Having a U.S. visa allows you to travel to a port of entry, airport or land border crossing, and request permission of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Customs and Border Protection (CBP) inspector to enter the United States. While having a visa does not guarantee entry to the United States, it does indicate a consular officer at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate abroad has determined you are eligible to seek entry for that specific purpose. DHS/CBP inspectors, guardians of the nation’s borders, are responsible for admission of travelers to the United States, for a specified status and period of time. DHS also has responsibility for immigration matters while you are present in the United States.
Source: https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...s-us-visa.html



Hi Pollyana :wave:
I hope you're doing okay in the latest round of ~all this~

Rete Jan 17th 2022 12:45 am

Re: USA vs Australia
 

Originally Posted by imacd (Post 13088273)
Maybe, I do not know. If you try to enter the US legally on say a visitors visa and they suspect you of working or getting married once emitted, then without proof or even explanation, is it not the case that you can be turned around and sent home?

Yes, it is true. Look at them cross-eyed or get snarky and your arse is on the next plane out of the US.



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