The US economy
Jan 23rd 2008, 4:43 am
#76
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 4,153
Re: The US economy
Realistic starting pay for an ME undergrad with no experience about $40-45k
With 10 yrs exp, in my area between $50-60k - staff jobs.
Not salaryforcast dot com or any of those others, cuz they are rubbish.
Considering 80% of Engineering work requires common sense and your basic understanding, I question the real value of "Ivy League" education. Its nice for the high flyers, but for the average ME, its eventually experience that matters and not your alma mater. A mentor of mine told me "you have to do your time in the trenches" - it seems too many engineers want the big bucks and those jobs are getting fewer and fewer.
With 10 yrs exp, in my area between $50-60k - staff jobs.
Not salaryforcast dot com or any of those others, cuz they are rubbish.
Considering 80% of Engineering work requires common sense and your basic understanding, I question the real value of "Ivy League" education. Its nice for the high flyers, but for the average ME, its eventually experience that matters and not your alma mater. A mentor of mine told me "you have to do your time in the trenches" - it seems too many engineers want the big bucks and those jobs are getting fewer and fewer.
My basic craft skills were essential in my being a designer. By the way I do not have a degree and even if I did I would not have put myself amongst the 5.
Jan 23rd 2008, 4:54 am
#77
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,893
Jan 23rd 2008, 5:03 am
#78
gurt mint nit?
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: In my shed
Posts: 2,776
Re: The US economy
Tend to agree with your comments. I started off my apprenticeship as a 'Fitter' was up-graded to 'Toolmaker Apprentice" I was then fortunate enough to become a Jig &Tool/ Machine Tool Designer. The amount of people I met in my life time who were outstanding academically and likewise with their hands was about 5. A degree does not make a craftsman. Where they get that thinking from beats the hell out of me.My basic craft skills were essential in my being a designer. By the way I do not have a degree and even if I did I would not have put myself amongst the 5.
Certainly, potential employers demand "jacks of all trades" more and more, it seems, I'm mid-career now and have a few cards to play, yet do find this job market to be very difficult to please.
Jan 23rd 2008, 7:05 am
#79
who turned out the light?
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: WA
Posts: 7,997
Re: The US economy
I'm an engineer.
Read this:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/03/03/engineers
The beginning of the article is about the head of the electrical engineering department at UC Berkeley, one of the finest EE departments in the country and arguably the best public school program, having to *reassure* parents and students who've been admitted into the program that there will be a job for them when they graduate. And anyone admitted to UC-B has impeccable credentials and outstanding math and science ability. These kids used to walk out of school and into a great job, and now -- they wonder if there will be *any* jobs for them.
Read this:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/03/03/engineers
The beginning of the article is about the head of the electrical engineering department at UC Berkeley, one of the finest EE departments in the country and arguably the best public school program, having to *reassure* parents and students who've been admitted into the program that there will be a job for them when they graduate. And anyone admitted to UC-B has impeccable credentials and outstanding math and science ability. These kids used to walk out of school and into a great job, and now -- they wonder if there will be *any* jobs for them.
They are trying not too hire too many as they want to get out of the hire and fire cycle in the past. But some are accusing of them of being too slow (Airbus is expanding their production line faster)
I wasn't saying anything about the decline in schools and engineers just addressing/clarifying your comments on Boeing.
The 777 is a relatively new plane the new 'dreamliner' has just been designed and built (and seeing the team who 'designed' and built it) a lot of them looked pretty young to me!
I realise there is a national feeling of what to be done addressing schools re math etc decline and I know Boeing is trying as well.
Jan 24th 2008, 4:01 am
#81
Boomshacalaca!!
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: South of the North Pole.......Colorado
Posts: 5,066
Re: The US economy
whopeedoo!! we may get $600 per person blah, blah
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/...lus/index.html
Bush's 'economic stimulus package' ought to include OBL on a plate to the US public!
(which is sorta one of my predictions for '08)
Similarly, just as he was starting to get in hot water re his election - Heeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrreeeeesssssss Saddam!!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/...lus/index.html
Bush's 'economic stimulus package' ought to include OBL on a plate to the US public!
(which is sorta one of my predictions for '08)
Similarly, just as he was starting to get in hot water re his election - Heeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrreeeeesssssss Saddam!!
Jan 25th 2008, 1:21 am
#84
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 976
Re: The US economy
/Rant on
I must be the only one who thinks this whole tax rebate thing is a total sham. What this country needs is decent investment in infrasctucture. Things are falling down and crumbling away due to lack of investment in basic infrastructure. Instead of giving each family a relatively small amount of money that will only go to buy yet more crap that no one really needs, and which will grow the national debt by another $150,000,000,000 (most of which will go straight onto the trade deficit if people do buy their TV's, shoes etc) it would be much more prudent to repair bridges, build classrooms, buy books and invest in research for alternative energy forms (to name a few examples) whilst generating job here in the US.
Of course none of this would generate an immediate wet, warm, comforting feeling that blowing money on crap has so it has no chance of happening.
/Rant off
I must be the only one who thinks this whole tax rebate thing is a total sham. What this country needs is decent investment in infrasctucture. Things are falling down and crumbling away due to lack of investment in basic infrastructure. Instead of giving each family a relatively small amount of money that will only go to buy yet more crap that no one really needs, and which will grow the national debt by another $150,000,000,000 (most of which will go straight onto the trade deficit if people do buy their TV's, shoes etc) it would be much more prudent to repair bridges, build classrooms, buy books and invest in research for alternative energy forms (to name a few examples) whilst generating job here in the US.
Of course none of this would generate an immediate wet, warm, comforting feeling that blowing money on crap has so it has no chance of happening.
/Rant off
Jan 25th 2008, 2:16 am
#85
And YOU'RE paying for it!
Joined: May 2007
Location: kipper tie?
Posts: 2,328
Jan 25th 2008, 2:53 am
#86
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,579
Re: The US economy
So the current stock market woes were caused by the French: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7208439.stm
I told you, you just can't trust them Frenchies.
I told you, you just can't trust them Frenchies.
Jan 25th 2008, 4:34 am
#87
Re vera, potas bene.
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Cod MA..Davenport FL
Posts: 2,405
Re: The US economy
Hmm
1. Billionaires make up 0.001% of the population so this is a silly point
2. I agree, but not sure about the Keryr bashing, i don;t like him personally but this is 2008 not 2004...
3. Yep
4. Not always true, many illegals have TIN's
5. OK, I'll go with it
6. Hmm, not sure how the three you mentioned have the level of clout you imply, Cheney with Haliburton may have been a better example. Still not sure about the Kerry bashing...
1. Billionaires make up 0.001% of the population so this is a silly point
2. I agree, but not sure about the Keryr bashing, i don;t like him personally but this is 2008 not 2004...
3. Yep
4. Not always true, many illegals have TIN's
5. OK, I'll go with it
6. Hmm, not sure how the three you mentioned have the level of clout you imply, Cheney with Haliburton may have been a better example. Still not sure about the Kerry bashing...
Jan 25th 2008, 4:49 am
#88
Not here much
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Highland Park, NJ
Posts: 2,452
Re: The US economy
/Rant on
I must be the only one who thinks this whole tax rebate thing is a total sham. What this country needs is decent investment in infrasctucture. Things are falling down and crumbling away due to lack of investment in basic infrastructure. Instead of giving each family a relatively small amount of money that will only go to buy yet more crap that no one really needs, and which will grow the national debt by another $150,000,000,000 (most of which will go straight onto the trade deficit if people do buy their TV's, shoes etc) it would be much more prudent to repair bridges, build classrooms, buy books and invest in research for alternative energy forms (to name a few examples) whilst generating job here in the US.
Of course none of this would generate an immediate wet, warm, comforting feeling that blowing money on crap has so it has no chance of happening.
/Rant off
I must be the only one who thinks this whole tax rebate thing is a total sham. What this country needs is decent investment in infrasctucture. Things are falling down and crumbling away due to lack of investment in basic infrastructure. Instead of giving each family a relatively small amount of money that will only go to buy yet more crap that no one really needs, and which will grow the national debt by another $150,000,000,000 (most of which will go straight onto the trade deficit if people do buy their TV's, shoes etc) it would be much more prudent to repair bridges, build classrooms, buy books and invest in research for alternative energy forms (to name a few examples) whilst generating job here in the US.
Of course none of this would generate an immediate wet, warm, comforting feeling that blowing money on crap has so it has no chance of happening.
/Rant off
Jan 25th 2008, 4:53 am
#89
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: The US economy
The British ruled the World while the natives had only sharpened pineapples for weapons (Blackadder) - then we had to admit we couldn't hack it any more. America is getting outpaced by leaner and fitter countries. It is resting on its laurels too much instead of trying to innovate and be truly competitive.
Jan 25th 2008, 5:06 am
#90
In the pink
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,324
Re: The US economy
The British ruled the World while the natives had only sharpened pineapples for weapons (Blackadder) - then we had to admit we couldn't hack it any more. America is getting outpaced by leaner and fitter countries. It is resting on its laurels too much instead of trying to innovate and be truly competitive.
Germany will militarize itself out of existence.
Britain will expand itself out of existence.
America will spend itself out of existence.
