US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
Feb 16th 2010, 5:21 pm
#1
Shocked of Redmond
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Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 3,446
US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
Interesting article in The Washington Independent.
Longish quote (mods, apologies if this is too long - feel free to delete and require people to go to the original article (which they should do anyway)):
Steve Clemons, who directs foreign policy studies for the influential New America Foundation, blogged last week that a “senior Pentagon official” was curious about the legal hurdles to annulling the citizenship of American terrorists in order to kill them.
Obama administration officials would not comment for the record, but one said that such an option was not under any serious discussion. Moral and legal considerations aside, Greenberg said it’s not possible — at least not for citizens born in the United States.
“They can’t do this with al-Awlaki. He is an American citizen, born in New Mexico. They can’t take away his citizenship,” Greenberg said, after tasking her legal staff to research the question in response to a query from TWI. However, she added, there are options available to the government to strip citizenship for naturalized citizens within the first 10 years of citizenship. Usually those options are exercised in immigration cases and lead to deportation.
Awlaki, or any other U.S. citizen, would have to formally renounce his citizenship in order to lose it, Greenberg continued. “Formally, you can write a letter” to the Justice Department, she said, informing it of such renunciation.
Longish quote (mods, apologies if this is too long - feel free to delete and require people to go to the original article (which they should do anyway)):
Steve Clemons, who directs foreign policy studies for the influential New America Foundation, blogged last week that a “senior Pentagon official” was curious about the legal hurdles to annulling the citizenship of American terrorists in order to kill them.
Obama administration officials would not comment for the record, but one said that such an option was not under any serious discussion. Moral and legal considerations aside, Greenberg said it’s not possible — at least not for citizens born in the United States.
“They can’t do this with al-Awlaki. He is an American citizen, born in New Mexico. They can’t take away his citizenship,” Greenberg said, after tasking her legal staff to research the question in response to a query from TWI. However, she added, there are options available to the government to strip citizenship for naturalized citizens within the first 10 years of citizenship. Usually those options are exercised in immigration cases and lead to deportation.
Awlaki, or any other U.S. citizen, would have to formally renounce his citizenship in order to lose it, Greenberg continued. “Formally, you can write a letter” to the Justice Department, she said, informing it of such renunciation.
Feb 16th 2010, 5:46 pm
#2
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Bouncing between Canada and US
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Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
I believe that if anyone is a citizen of any country, and they intentionally act against it as these 'American Terrorists' do - wishing to kill fellow citizens in the name of the Nation's enemy then so bid, strip them of their citizenship.
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
Feb 16th 2010, 6:31 pm
#3
Shocked of Redmond
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
That would require a constitutional amendment, unless I'm missing something, so it's very unlikely ever to happen.
Feb 16th 2010, 6:35 pm
#4
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
I believe that if anyone is a citizen of any country, and they intentionally act against it as these 'American Terrorists' do - wishing to kill fellow citizens in the name of the Nation's enemy then so bid, strip them of their citizenship.
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
Feb 16th 2010, 6:48 pm
#5
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,543
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
I believe that if anyone is a citizen of any country, and they intentionally act against it as these 'American Terrorists' do - wishing to kill fellow citizens in the name of the Nation's enemy then so bid, strip them of their citizenship.
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
Feb 16th 2010, 6:56 pm
#6
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
Interesting article in The Washington Independent.
Longish quote (mods, apologies if this is too long - feel free to delete and require people to go to the original article (which they should do anyway)):
Steve Clemons, who directs foreign policy studies for the influential New America Foundation, blogged last week that a “senior Pentagon official” was curious about the legal hurdles to annulling the citizenship of American terrorists in order to kill them.
Obama administration officials would not comment for the record, but one said that such an option was not under any serious discussion. Moral and legal considerations aside, Greenberg said it’s not possible — at least not for citizens born in the United States.
“They can’t do this with al-Awlaki. He is an American citizen, born in New Mexico. They can’t take away his citizenship,” Greenberg said, after tasking her legal staff to research the question in response to a query from TWI. However, she added, there are options available to the government to strip citizenship for naturalized citizens within the first 10 years of citizenship. Usually those options are exercised in immigration cases and lead to deportation.
Awlaki, or any other U.S. citizen, would have to formally renounce his citizenship in order to lose it, Greenberg continued. “Formally, you can write a letter” to the Justice Department, she said, informing it of such renunciation.
Longish quote (mods, apologies if this is too long - feel free to delete and require people to go to the original article (which they should do anyway)):
Steve Clemons, who directs foreign policy studies for the influential New America Foundation, blogged last week that a “senior Pentagon official” was curious about the legal hurdles to annulling the citizenship of American terrorists in order to kill them.
Obama administration officials would not comment for the record, but one said that such an option was not under any serious discussion. Moral and legal considerations aside, Greenberg said it’s not possible — at least not for citizens born in the United States.
“They can’t do this with al-Awlaki. He is an American citizen, born in New Mexico. They can’t take away his citizenship,” Greenberg said, after tasking her legal staff to research the question in response to a query from TWI. However, she added, there are options available to the government to strip citizenship for naturalized citizens within the first 10 years of citizenship. Usually those options are exercised in immigration cases and lead to deportation.
Awlaki, or any other U.S. citizen, would have to formally renounce his citizenship in order to lose it, Greenberg continued. “Formally, you can write a letter” to the Justice Department, she said, informing it of such renunciation.
I knew this before I ever got interested in US immigration.
WTH.
WTH is going ON these days anyway? I'm seriously considering stopping the daily paper and just not reading the news; it's making me sick. This business with the Senate, and also with Bayh.. it boggles me, not to mention that idiot Palin and the gaggle of fools listening to her seriously. That people would simply let things collapse around us like some sort of Katrina-smacked New Orleans, but on a national level is.. is.. I don't even know what to call it.
Meanwhile, Jesse freakin' Jackson is coming to town whip up trouble because the police have gone power mad, there have been nearly a dozen domestic murder/suicides recently (there's only 3 million people here in the first place!) and some poor guy fell in the crater of Mt St Helens.. I just can't take it anymore. Oh, and the Euro was apparently decades too soon and Spain is the Florida of Europe.
I think I'm going to stick to my new hobby of making meals for my neighbors, publishing our little newsletter and maybe get some chickens. And make my own soap.
Feb 16th 2010, 7:31 pm
#7
Shocked of Redmond
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Posts: 3,446
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
Or should we just call you Barbara and call DH Jack?
Feb 16th 2010, 8:13 pm
#8
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
I'm getting more than that walking the neighbors dog!
And the meals have been *charity* btw. And she even said it tasted good.
Feb 16th 2010, 8:32 pm
#9
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: North Charleston,SC. born in Stockport,UK.
Posts: 10,109
Feb 16th 2010, 8:32 pm
#10
Lapine Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas in my own little world
Posts: 21,691
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
I believe that if anyone is a citizen of any country, and they intentionally act against it as these 'American Terrorists' do - wishing to kill fellow citizens in the name of the Nation's enemy then so bid, strip them of their citizenship.
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
Trouble is though, if the US is their only place of citizenship where do you deport them to?
We could find some island to colonise and ship them there... or is that Guantanamo already?
Feb 16th 2010, 8:37 pm
#11
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
They can go work in the sweat shops.
hahah.. from wiki
The Mariana Islands (also the Marianas; up to the early 20th century sometimes called Ladrones Islands, from Spanish Islas de los Ladrones meaning "Islands of Thieves")
Perfect.
Feb 16th 2010, 8:53 pm
#12
I love my brick!
Joined: May 2007
Location: Peachy
Posts: 9,304
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
Can't we just send them all to Canada, that'll learn 'em. Plus then they'll be able to get the help they so desperately need.
Feb 16th 2010, 8:57 pm
#13
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
Feb 16th 2010, 9:29 pm
#14
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 338
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
The Feds already have a death penalty that can and has been used against US citizens. Remember Tim McVeigh? They didn't strip him of citizenship.
Feb 16th 2010, 9:33 pm
#15
Shocked of Redmond
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Posts: 3,446
Re: US Citizenship, and how difficult it is to lose it involuntarily
Right, but they used due process there, not an extra-judicial execution, which is what the batshit crazies are calling for.