The Ukraine:- Official
Aug 18th 2004, 5:52 pm
#1
@matthewb76
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Aug 18th 2004, 5:53 pm
#2
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 72,549
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by manc1976
Don't forget much, do you Manc.
Aug 18th 2004, 6:00 pm
#3
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Bath, UK ---> Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 371
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by manc1976
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olym...le/default.stm
Code:
Rank Country Gold Silver Bronze Total 1 China 10 6 4 20 2 United States 8 10 8 26 3 Japan 8 3 2 13 4 Australia 6 4 6 16 5 Ukraine 5 1 1 7
Aug 18th 2004, 6:03 pm
#4
@matthewb76
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by James Box
Ah, but the medals table doesn't say The Ukraine...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olym...le/default.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olym...le/default.stm
Code:
Rank Country Gold Silver Bronze Total 1 China 10 6 4 20 2 United States 8 10 8 26 3 Japan 8 3 2 13 4 Australia 6 4 6 16 5 Ukraine 5 1 1 7
Aug 18th 2004, 6:11 pm
#5
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Bath, UK ---> Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 371
Aug 18th 2004, 6:18 pm
#6
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Bath, UK ---> Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 371
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
I agree with "the Ukraine" though. It sounds better in English than "Ukraine" or say "the Latvia" who have just gone a goal down to "the Welsh" 
Aug 18th 2004, 6:18 pm
#7
my arm aches
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: the warm waters of Florida
Posts: 2,289
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Don't forget much, do you Manc.
Aug 18th 2004, 6:26 pm
#8
@matthewb76
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by ladyofthelake
And that sig has cropped up here before too. Who was it that said that? Was it Yosser?
Aug 18th 2004, 6:30 pm
#9
@matthewb76
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Aug 18th 2004, 7:07 pm
#10
Never right in the head!
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,465
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by ladyofthelake
And that sig has cropped up here before too. Who was it that said that? Was it Yosser?
Aug 18th 2004, 8:22 pm
#11
my arm aches
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: the warm waters of Florida
Posts: 2,289
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by Yosser
My ears were burning....what have I done now?
Found it!!
It wasn't you who said it, but you did start it.
Aug 18th 2004, 9:15 pm
#12
Never right in the head!
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,465
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by ladyofthelake
I forgot all about that thread!
Aug 19th 2004, 4:48 am
#13
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by manc1976
Just to confirm it is called the Ukraine.
Aug 19th 2004, 4:54 am
#14
Howling at the Moon
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 3,742
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
Originally Posted by manc1976
Aug 19th 2004, 6:25 am
#15
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: The Ukraine:- Official
The or not the, that is the question.
Okay – I’ll have a stab at it and try to explain where the unfortunate and nationalistic MCL was coming from, since I’m sure it made no sense to most. Probably, this effort won’t either… To understand, you need knowledge of English grammar and East European history.
Grammar
The grammar of the is very irregular in the English language. Its grammatical name is the definite article – DE.
A) Countries
The Russian and Ukrainian language do not use the DE. However, when Russian translators were translating into English, they would use the DE in front of the name of (the) Ukraine, i.e. they were saying that this place is a geographic region, not a country. When (the) Ukraine took independence, Ukrainian translators dropped the DE, i.e. they were stating that they were a country and not a region.
Okay – I’ll have a stab at it and try to explain where the unfortunate and nationalistic MCL was coming from, since I’m sure it made no sense to most. Probably, this effort won’t either… To understand, you need knowledge of English grammar and East European history.
Grammar
The grammar of the is very irregular in the English language. Its grammatical name is the definite article – DE.
A) Countries
With names of countries, we usually omit the DE:-
Examples: Sweden, Britain, France
However, there are many exceptions to this rule that may cause confusion:
1) We include the DE when the system of government of the country is shown in the name:-
Examples: The United Kingdom, The United Arab Emirates, The USA.
2) We include the DE where the original language would have included it, too:-
Examples: The Netherlands, The Congo.
Here, the Dutch and French language would use their DE – hence so does English.
3) We often omit the DE in text when we are writing the names of countries in titles or tables
B) RegionsExamples: Sweden, Britain, France
However, there are many exceptions to this rule that may cause confusion:
1) We include the DE when the system of government of the country is shown in the name:-
Examples: The United Kingdom, The United Arab Emirates, The USA.
2) We include the DE where the original language would have included it, too:-
Examples: The Netherlands, The Congo.
Here, the Dutch and French language would use their DE – hence so does English.
3) We often omit the DE in text when we are writing the names of countries in titles or tables
We often use the DE when referring to geographic regions.
Examples: The Lake District, The Cotswolds, The Great Plains, The South.
HistoryExamples: The Lake District, The Cotswolds, The Great Plains, The South.
The Russian and Ukrainian language do not use the DE. However, when Russian translators were translating into English, they would use the DE in front of the name of (the) Ukraine, i.e. they were saying that this place is a geographic region, not a country. When (the) Ukraine took independence, Ukrainian translators dropped the DE, i.e. they were stating that they were a country and not a region.
Last edited by fatbrit; Aug 19th 2004 at 6:44 am.