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UK state pension and USA social security

UK state pension and USA social security

Old Jan 2nd 2017, 4:46 am
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by TiaMaria57 View Post
I hear what you say but my husband paid his own stamp in those days since he was self employed. It could be even be paid at the post office back then. It was not deducted from wages as he didn't have any wages.....just profits most of the years, but he always paid his stamp to protect his retirement.
How would those profits not be "related to his work"? The fact that he was self-employed seems moot as regards exposure to WEP.
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 11:11 am
  #1322  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Asg123 View Post
WEP, if it applies, reduces your US SS. WEP applies to the part of your UK pension arising from work. It does not apply to the part of your pension arising from voluntary contributions while unemployed. So suppose you got a pension based on 15 years, 10 years employed and 5 years voluntary contributions while unemployed, WEP would apply only to the 10 years employed, or 2/3 of your pension, which may mean that your US SS may be reduced by 1/3 of the amount of your UK pension. But there are limits on the reduction, and if you've had a decent-paying job paying SS taxes in the US for over 30 years, there's no reduction at all.
For UK pension I have 6 years I can catch up on and I have received statement showing amounts under Class I could pay. My understanding is under WEP British pension resulting from voluntary contributions doesn't reduce US Social security payments, but contributions from employment in UK would.

The UK statement shows amounts under Class 3. For the period in question in the US, no contributions made for those 6 years, part of which I was employee, part not. I have seen some posts that appear to indicate for period I was an employee that I could pay the lower Class 2 rate, other posts that Class 2 not available to someone while working abroad. ( The only proof I would have of employment would be statement from SS or tax returns),no exact dates. So my question is if I could pay lower Class 2 rate, then is it worth contacting HMRC if I cant prove which dates I was an employee and which not ?
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 12:43 pm
  #1323  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
For UK pension I have 6 years I can catch up on and I have received statement showing amounts under Class I could pay. My understanding is under WEP British pension resulting from voluntary contributions doesn't reduce US Social security payments, but contributions from employment in UK would.

The UK statement shows amounts under Class 3. For the period in question in the US, no contributions made for those 6 years, part of which I was employee, part not. I have seen some posts that appear to indicate for period I was an employee that I could pay the lower Class 2 rate, other posts that Class 2 not available to someone while working abroad. ( The only proof I would have of employment would be statement from SS or tax returns),no exact dates. So my question is if I could pay lower Class 2 rate, then is it worth contacting HMRC if I cant prove which dates I was an employee and which not ?
While working overseas you can pay Class 2 contributions, I know, I have been doing so, and will continue to do so until next year (when Class 2 stops, thereafter it will be Class 3). You do have to apply for/ request Class 2 (you are sent a form to complete, with details of your work/ employment history in the UK and overseas), and be approved for it.

There is at least one case I know of, that a BE member did not request Class 2 and was paying Class 3.

Last edited by Pulaski; Jan 2nd 2017 at 12:45 pm.
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 12:47 pm
  #1324  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
While working overseas you can pay Class 2 contributions, I know, I have been doing so, and will continue to do so until next year (when Class 2 stops, thereafter it will be Class 3). You do have to apply for/ request Class 2 (you are sent a form to complete, with details of your work/ employment history in the UK and overseas), and be approved for it.

There is at least one case I know of, that a BE member did not request Class 2 and was paying Class 3.
Thanks, seems I may have handled incorrectly, and now I am not sure I wish to open a can of worms, but paying Class 2 for time I was an employee certainly would save some money. Regardless, I have run the numbers and catching up on contributions even at Class 3 represents an excellent return on investment at this stage.
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 4:22 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
How would those profits not be "related to his work"? The fact that he was self-employed seems moot as regards exposure to WEP.
The SSA's instruction manual specifically states that WEP applies to earnings. I, along with others on this board it would seem, understand that the Pre-1975 'Stamps' era, was paid at a 'Flat Rate' and not actually related to earnings/wages or profits and therefore not calculated or collected along with income tax.
Please correct me if I've got this wrong. I welcome anyone's thoughts on this because the SSA are only interpreting their instructions from their own manual, (this is not written in the Social Social Act), and it is not crystal clear. They don't understand how the UK system worked in those days.
IMO, the WEP rules should be written clearly and not left open to interpretation by badly written jargon (of which much is complete gobbledygook in the S.S. Act), and then reinterpreted by the SSA for use by their officers.
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by TiaMaria57 View Post
I, along with others on this board it would seem, understand that the Pre-1975 'Stamps' era, was paid at a 'Flat Rate' and not actually related to earnings/wages or profits and therefore not calculated or collected along with income tax.
The only problem might be convincing the SS officer of that. The employees part of the stamp was deducted from their wages (at a flat rate) and the stamp purchased each pay day from the post office, and stuck on the employees card. When I did wages I also calculated and deducted income tax from the salary. The Stamp was related to earnings in as much as the cost of the stamp was decided by if you had a job and were earning or not. Purchase of a stamp if working was not voluntary.

WEP was aimed at those Americans who had a pension from earnings in the USA on which SS contributions hadn't been paid. The rules are written with that object in mind, we get caught in the crossfire. Good luck convincing the SSA pre 1975 pension is not subject to WEP, I think a case can be made either way.
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Old Jan 2nd 2017, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by TiaMaria57 View Post
The SSA's instruction manual specifically states that WEP applies to earnings. I, along with others on this board it would seem, understand that the Pre-1975 'Stamps' era, was paid at a 'Flat Rate' and not actually related to earnings/wages or profits and therefore not calculated or collected along with income tax.
I think the "flat rate" thing is a bit of a red herring as I don't interpret "related to earnings" as meaning that there has to be a specific percentage of earnings etc for it to be "related". As lansbury points out, if you had earned income (employed or self-employed) you had to buy a stamp. Similarly, I don't see anything that would logically imply "not collected with income tax" as meaning "not related with income".

Originally Posted by TiaMaria57 View Post
IMO, the WEP rules should be written clearly and not left open to interpretation by badly written jargon (of which much is complete gobbledygook in the S.S. Act), and then reinterpreted by the SSA for use by their officers.
I doubt anyone would disagree with that sentiment.
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Old Jan 20th 2017, 4:10 am
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

I am a UK Citizen who started work in the UK but then moved to the USA in 2006, I currently have 11 years of US Social Contributions with a good salary that will give me a good monthly payment at retirement, I also have almost the full amount of years in the UK mainly with paid contributions and a few years of Class 3 NI payments to get almost the full basic pension from the UK, no permanent plans set to retire yet I am 60 this year, thoughts are to live between the properties we own in Canada and France, can you advise if I can claim and be paid my UK Pension to my Bank in the UK or France and my US Pension to my Bank in Canada without any deductions being applied, my plan is to spend less than 183 days in Canada or France or the UK when visiting family or travelling to other countries.
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Old Jan 20th 2017, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

I have my UK State pension paid into my UK bank without any deductions. My US SS is paid into a US bank so I don't know what the mechanics of receiving it overseas are.
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 4:22 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Hi, I am am new member. Hopefully my post represents a straightforward, and possibly often asked, query.

Rather than starting a new thread, thought I would use this pre-existing thread.

I am a UK resident and have been for the majority of my working life. I am in my late 50's and am planning ahead for my (earlyish) retirement.

I will be entitled to a full UK state pension as I have the required number of qualifying years etc.

My query relates to a 30 month period (1989-19991) when I was employed directly (on B-1 visa !?) by a US firm and I lived and paid taxes etc in the States. During this period I paid no UK National Insurance contributions. I did, however, earn a decent salary in the US, was given a social security number, and social security payments were deducted from my US salary.

Apparently, I accumulated 12 US social security credits during this period of work.

Based on a brief telephone conversation I had with the US Consulate/ Embassy in London some years back, I understand that when I reach just less than 67 years of age I will be entitled to a modest (say $80 per month) US pension (or is it called a "Social Security Retirement Income" ?) as a result of a reciprocal agreement between the US and the UK.

Is this correct ... not the sum due, but the principle ?

Is this entitlement wholly separate to my UK pension entitlement ? How and in what currency is it typically paid ?

I was also wondering who adminsters said payments and to whom I need to pass on my current address and contact details ? As a UK resident do I have to liaise with the relevant department in the US Embassy in London ?

Finally, is there any way that I could request a pension/ social security retirement income forecast based on my 12 credits and to whom should I make such a request ? Such forecasts are commonly requested and responded to in a timely and professional manner by the UK pensions service via their telephone helpline in Newcastle. Is there a US equivalent ... and is there a US or UK telephone number than can be used to request such a forecast .. or does it have to be in writing - if the latter is there a secure email address ?

I tried to call the Social Security team in the London US embassy on several occasions over the past two weeks to ask the above questions, but the call just goes to an answermachine or is unanswered, a state of affairs which hardly inspires confidence.

I look forward to hearing your replies.
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 4:42 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by findthespot View Post

I was also wondering who adminsters said payments and to whom I need to pass on my current address and contact details ? As a UK resident do I have to liaise with the relevant department in the US Embassy in London ?

Finally, is there any way that I could request a pension/ social security retirement income forecast based on my 12 credits and to whom should I make such a request ? Such forecasts are commonly requested and responded to in a timely and professional manner by the UK pensions service via their telephone helpline in Newcastle. Is there a US equivalent ... and is there a US or UK telephone number than can be used to request such a forecast .. or does it have to be in writing - if the latter is there a secure email address ?

.
The Social Security Administration will be able to answer your queries online -- just feed in your SSN and it will give you a projection of your retirement position. You won't be able to do this through London, but should get all the info you need online.

https://www.ssa.gov/onlineservices/
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 4:45 pm
  #1332  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by findthespot View Post
Hi, I am am new member. Hopefully my post represents a straightforward, and possibly often asked, query.

Rather than starting a new thread, thought I would use this pre-existing thread.

I am a UK resident and have been for the majority of my working life. I am in my late 50's and am planning ahead for my (earlyish) retirement.

I will be entitled to a full UK state pension as I have the required number of qualifying years etc.

My query relates to a 30 month period (1989-19991) when I was employed directly (on B-1 visa !?) by a US firm and I lived and paid taxes etc in the States. During this period I paid no UK National Insurance contributions. I did, however, earn a decent salary in the US, was given a social security number, and social security payments were deducted from my US salary.

Apparently, I accumulated 12 US social security credits during this period of work.

Based on a brief telephone conversation I had with the US Consulate/ Embassy in London some years back, I understand that when I reach just less than 67 years of age I will be entitled to a modest (say $80 per month) US pension (or is it called a "Social Security Retirement Income" ?) as a result of a reciprocal agreement between the US and the UK.

Is this correct ... not the sum due, but the principle ?

Is this entitlement wholly separate to my UK pension entitlement ? How and in what currency is it typically paid ?

I was also wondering who adminsters said payments and to whom I need to pass on my current address and contact details ? As a UK resident do I have to liaise with the relevant department in the US Embassy in London ?

Finally, is there any way that I could request a pension/ social security retirement income forecast based on my 12 credits and to whom should I make such a request ? Such forecasts are commonly requested and responded to in a timely and professional manner by the UK pensions service via their telephone helpline in Newcastle. Is there a US equivalent ... and is there a US or UK telephone number than can be used to request such a forecast .. or does it have to be in writing - if the latter is there a secure email address ?

I tried to call the Social Security team in the London US embassy on several occasions over the past two weeks to ask the above questions, but the call just goes to an answermachine or is unanswered, a state of affairs which hardly inspires confidence.

I look forward to hearing your replies.
The social security website has an address listed where you can request an estimate of your future social security benefits or an "account" can be set up online. I gave up calling them long ago. If you are qualified for a full state pension, I don't think your US social security payments would bring you any benefit as far as the UK state pension, but getting an estimate of what the US social security payments would make sense.
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 5:13 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Re last post.

Yes, I did not expect that my US social security credits could, or would, bolster my UK state pension. Unless, I am mistaken I am entitled to a modest US retirement income and this is paid entirely separately to a UK pension.

Under normal circumstances i understand that 40 US social security credits are required to qualify for a US pension , but due to the reciprocal agreement between the US and many countries (inc the UK) then I am entitled to a modest sum as a result of the 12 credits I have earned.

Re weblink to SSA - sadly, not helpful - see post below

Last edited by findthespot; Feb 21st 2017 at 5:44 pm.
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 5:31 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Aaah .... I came across the SSA retirement calculator last week when I was looking at the income I could earn from a small private company pension (401K ?) that I still have via my ex US employer.

The SSA retirement calculator does not help me. This is because it only seems to provide an estimate for workers who have at least 40 US social security credits. Seems a bit deficient, but who am I to complain !

My entitlement, assuming it does exist, is I understand based on a US/UK reciprocal agreement - or a totalisation agreement.

Thus, I am still lost !!

I could send an online enquiry to the SSA team in the Federal Benefits Unit at the London US Embassy who should have a better understanding of my rights/ entitlement - as per previous post it appears to be almost impossible to contact them via the telephone.

Last edited by findthespot; Feb 21st 2017 at 6:06 pm.
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 6:08 pm
  #1335  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Nutmegger View Post
The Social Security Administration will be able to answer your queries online -- just feed in your SSN and it will give you a projection of your retirement position. You won't be able to do this through London, but should get all the info you need online.

https://www.ssa.gov/onlineservices/
easy to set up, takes a few minutes

but it asks for usa mailing address, and series of questions (yes or no) to confirm is you

I suggest you order your usa credit report because questions seem based on that, and perhaps your last usa address.

it seems a bit complicated as a non citizen as to requirements so you at after getting the estimate check thee publications on requirements for non citizens to receive the payment, but if you qualify can be paid in uk.
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