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UK state pension and USA social security

UK state pension and USA social security

Old Oct 31st 2016, 6:40 am
  #1246  
 
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
If I might add, hopefully to clarify, pensions that are WEP deductible are those paid for with income which was not subject to Social Security taxes. So if your British State Pension was paid for with 14 years of actual or deemed contributions while in the UK, 10 years of voluntary contributions while working in, say, Germany, and 12 years of voluntary contrubutions while living in the US then one third (12/36) of your State Pension would not be WEPable, because one third of it was paid for with contributions that were subject to US Social Security taxes.
Well that has confused me. In fact 22/36 of the pension would not be subject to WEP as the contributions were voluntary. The portion of Mrs L's UK State pension which she received as a result of voluntary contributions paid while living in the UK was excluded from WEP calculations.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 11:10 am
  #1247  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
Well that has confused me. In fact 22/36 of the pension would not be subject to WEP as the contributions were voluntary. The portion of Mrs L's UK State pension which she received as a result of voluntary contributions paid while living in the UK was excluded from WEP calculations.
Hmm, interesting, well now I am confused too. ... But aren't UK private pensions WEPable? And aren't they "voluntary"?
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 12:54 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

When I spoke to the Lady at the SS dept she said.
What is the amount of your UK pension(in £££s)...I told her,she then said because the amount your getting when calculated into $$$s is more than $500, the amount of the SS benefit will be reduced by $200.....she jokingly said....the £££ is low now compared to the $$$.The phone call lasted less than 3 minutes and she never ever mentioned anything about WEP.

Last edited by monkeybrains; Oct 31st 2016 at 12:57 pm.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 1:27 pm
  #1249  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by monkeybrains View Post
When I spoke to the Lady at the SS dept she said.
What is the amount of your UK pension(in £££s)...I told her,she then said because the amount your getting when calculated into $$$s is more than $500, the amount of the SS benefit will be reduced by $200.....she jokingly said....the £££ is low now compared to the $$$.The phone call lasted less than 3 minutes and she never ever mentioned anything about WEP.
The "reduced by $200" is WEP.

You would be well advised to familiarize yourself with WEP and how it is calculated as there is a good chance that your WEP may be wrong.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 2:27 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
The "reduced by $200" is WEP.

You would be well advised to familiarize yourself with WEP and how it is calculated as there is a good chance that your WEP may be wrong.
Hi Pulaski....are you saying that it could it be wrong in my favor.....or the $200 is too much?
Thank you.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 2:35 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by monkeybrains View Post
Hi Pulaski....are you saying that it could it be wrong in my favor.....or the $200 is too much? .....
Could be either way, but if any part of your UK state pension is from voluntary contributions while you were living in the US, then there is a very good chance that too much WEP is being deducted.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 4:36 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

I am confused about my opted out and opted in contributions. Do I count any part of my private pension that I contributed to with my reduced national insurance payments? If not, would the part of my pension paid by the additional fund when I opted back in be subject to WEP? I think that was called SERPS. It's all changed now, and I'm very confused.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 4:39 pm
  #1253  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
I am confused about my opted out and opted in contributions. Do I count any part of my private pension that I contributed to with my reduced national insurance payments? If not, would the part of my pension paid by the additional fund when I opted back in be subject to WEP? I think that was called SERPS. It's all changed now, and I'm very confused.
I thought private pensions were WEPable anyway?

SERPS was what you "opted out of" to get more money into your private pension.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 4:49 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I thought private pensions were WEPable anyway?
My own private pension was not based on employment. My work private pension was. The tax allowance were based on my income, not employment. So I'm not sure

SERPS was what you "opted out of" to get more money into your private pension.
My own private pension was not based on employment. My work private pension was. The tax allowance were based on my income, not employment. So I'm not sure

The questions at https://www.ssa.gov/international/wep_disclaimer.html mention based on employment.

yes SERPS was what I opted out of, and then back into.

Last edited by mrken30; Oct 31st 2016 at 4:52 pm.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 4:52 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
My own private pension was not based on employment. My work private pension was. The tax allowance were based on my income, not employment. So I'm not sure

yes SERPS was what I opted out of, and then back into.
It'd be easier to keep on working until you have 30 years of "substantial" earnings for Social Security purposes.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
It'd be easier to keep on working until you have 30 years of "substantial" earnings for Social Security purposes.

Totally agree, I would like to know if there's a way of paying a two or three of years SS from self employed income or passive income. Still haven't worked that one out yet.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Hmm, interesting, well now I am confused too. ... But aren't UK private pensions WEPable? And aren't they "voluntary"?
Yes and no. My police pension I could join or not if I remember correctly. But the contribution was deducted directly from my salary (11.25%) and it is that that would make it subject to WEP if my SS wasn't based on Mrs Ls contributions..

UK State pension is not voluntary in that by law a % of pay is deducted towards it.

If you pay voluntary contributions towards the UK State pension, where do you get the money from. Salary, interest or profit on the stock market could be any or all. Also that salary could be from a Federal job from which SS isn't deducted. But in all cases pension derived from voluntary (not deducted from salary) contributions is not subject to WEP. That is my understanding, if I'm wrong I'd be pleased to know.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 5:05 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
I am confused about my opted out and opted in contributions. Do I count any part of my private pension that I contributed to with my reduced national insurance payments? If not, would the part of my pension paid by the additional fund when I opted back in be subject to WEP? I think that was called SERPS. It's all changed now, and I'm very confused.
Pension derived from SERPS is subject to WEP.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by monkeybrains View Post
When I spoke to the Lady at the SS dept she said.
What is the amount of your UK pension(in £££s)...I told her,she then said because the amount your getting when calculated into $$$s is more than $500, the amount of the SS benefit will be reduced by $200.....she jokingly said....the £££ is low now compared to the $$$.The phone call lasted less than 3 minutes and she never ever mentioned anything about WEP.
It is up to you to know what part of your pension is not subject to WEP, and to give that information to the SSA. Otherwise how or they meant to know, they have no idea how you pension was calculated.
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Old Oct 31st 2016, 5:22 pm
  #1260  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
Yes and no. My police pension I could join or not if I remember correctly. But the contribution was deducted directly from my salary (11.25%) and it is that that would make it subject to WEP if my SS wasn't based on Mrs Ls contributions..

UK State pension is not voluntary in that by law a % of pay is deducted towards it.

If you pay voluntary contributions towards the UK State pension, where do you get the money from. Salary, interest or profit on the stock market could be any or all. Also that salary could be from a Federal job from which SS isn't deducted. But in all cases pension derived from voluntary (not deducted from salary) contributions is not subject to WEP. That is my understanding, if I'm wrong I'd be pleased to know.
That seems clear and reasonable, .... which, given that we're talking about WEP, probably means I am confused and don't understand it but just don't realise it yet!

So the deciding factor seems to be whether (WEPable) or not (not WEPable) pension contributions were deducted from your payroll?

Last edited by Pulaski; Oct 31st 2016 at 5:24 pm.
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