mrken30

This raises an interesting thought, I am about to reach my 35 years of NI contributions , with around 14 years being voluntary contributions. Should I continue contributing to reduce my WEP exposure?

Giantaxe

You’d have to do the calculation based on your life expectancy and projecting how much your WEP would be reduced given the smaller percentage of the UK pension that would be subject to the WEP versus the cost of the voluntary contributions. And if you are still working the number of years of SS contributions you expect to end up with would be a factor in the calculation too. If you are a long way from the WEP-free 30 years I can see it would likely be worthwhile.

durham_lad

I really don’t know what the calculation is, how much each year of voluntary contributions reduces WEP and how long it will take to recover the amount paid, particularly if the contributions are at the Class 3 rate.

Also, how would the SSA do the calculation? They could say that you have 21/35ths of the OAP earned from wages that did not pay into SS, regardless of how many total years have been contributed. If you have 35 years of contributions then additional years will not increase your OAP and the DWP will probably not accept more voluntary contributions anyway.

dvalentine

Given the complexity of WEP I guess I should be 'grateful' that I also have a Final Salary pension coming from my time working in the UK. That pension combined with the State Pension will take me to maximum WEP anyway. Only thing that can save me WEP is working more years in the US to get me closer to the 30 year limit after which WEP goes away. I don't think I can stick work out that long but each year over 20 gets rid of another 5% on the WEP scale.

X75

Thanks Durham Lad! Last question, can you recall if under box 2 on that form your wife checked yes to the question "Is the pension listed in item 1 a partial benefit paid under a US Social Security (Totalization) agreement?"

I am aware the UK has a Totalization Agreement with the USA but I am confused as to what "partial benefit" means.

durham_lad

My wife answered No to that question as she never used the Totalization Agreement.

Pulaski

I suspect, but do not know, that the US SS Adminstration will take the first 35 years of contributions to calculate what is out of scope for WEP, so it wouldn't help you to pay more years.

That said, if you have 35 years of NI contributions, of which 14 years are voluntary after you left the UK that should mean you have 21 years of the contributions related to when you did live in the UK. Which should mean you have the 3 "starting years" from age 16-19, then have worked for 18 years, which assuming you spent 3 years in university would put you at 39 when you entered the US, giving you 28 calendar years of potential SS contributions until you retire at age 67, but depending on precisely when during the year you arrived in the US, and the amount you earned, you might have got a whole year of SS credit for as little as a few weeks work (which is what happened to me), and the same could be true at the end of your working career, if you work for a few weeks of the new year you could get a whole year of SS eligibility. So, by the time you retire you should, by my estimation, have at least 28 years of SS contributions, probably 29 years, and perhaps 30 years, which would eliminate WEP entirely for you. In any case, it sounds like you won't suffer much from WEP, so I doubt it is worth trying to buy extra non-WEPable NI years.

vespucci

What I expect you may be thinking of is the 4 annual SS credits; a few weeks of work in a year is unlikely to be enough to add anything for WEP exemption (the minimum earnings needed in 2022 is $27,300).

Giantaxe

This assumes they will work until aged 67. On the flip side, one difference between US SS contributions and UK NI is that the former are paid on earned income regardless of age, whereas NI is only paid until one's full state pension age. So it's perfectly possible to work past 67 to garner SS years if one so desires.

X75

Thanks. I will call the SSA and ask them. Cheers.

Pulaski

Yes, I was .... Thank you, I hadn't realized that there was a different $amt for WEP exemption.

mellyj

Forgive me if I’m duplicating anything here but there are so many posts to go through looking for an answer to my question and I haven’t found anything yet…

I’m a British citizen, living in the U.K but spent several years in the USA as a resident alien because my family emigrated there when I was a child. As an adult I worked for about 8 or 9 years in low-paid jobs, some of them part-time, before I decided to move back to the UK where I worked full-time for 21 years.

I have just started to receive my UK pension which is reduced because of the gap in my employment here. When I applied, I gave them my US social security number which I believe may have been used to determine my eligibility for the UK pension.

I have now received a letter from the UK International Pension Centre Foreign Claims, telling me that I might be eligible for USA benefits because of the contributions I made there. They have given me a “retirement benefits questionnaire” to fill out and send to the USA embassy.

Although it would be very nice to receive something from my contributions in the USA, I’m a bit hesitant because I’m not sure if I worked long enough for any benefit and even if I did, would I be opening up an unwelcome can of worms regarding tax liability?

Any feedback would be gratefully received!

Pulaski

If you worked "8 or 9 years" you probably fall just short of the 40 quarters* (which is not quite the same as 10 years, but is similar) of contributions required for eligibility for Social Security payments, but it is definitely worth contacting the SS Administration to confirm whether or not you are eligiible for certain. You should ideally have your Social Security Number available, and if not you will probably need to phone them rather than apply on line.

Note, if you are eligible for SS payments the payments will be reduced by a percentage under the process known as WEP (Windfall Eliminaion Provision) because of your state pension, and any other pensions you receive in the UK. outside the US.

* The rules for 10 years of contributions are a bit strange and can lead to you getting the requisit 40 quarters in as little as 8½ years, depending on when you started and ended working, and how much you were paid (being low paid does stack the odds against you stretching your "8 or 9 years" in to 40 quarters of eligibility).

mrken30

When you apply for benefits—You may have some Social Security credits in both the United States and the United Kingdom but not have enough to be eligible for benefits in one country or the other. The agreement makes it easier to qualify for benefits by letting you add together your Social Security credits in both countries. For more details, see the section on “Monthly benefits” beginning on page 5

From reading that, it looks like you should get credit for the years you paid social security in the US

www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10199.pdf

MidAtlantic

As per the Introduction this agreement "helps people who, without the agreement, would not be eligible for monthly retirement, disability or survivors benefits under the Social Security system of one or both countries", which is what you say in your first para.
I do not think this applies to mellyj who is already receiving the UK pension.

I agree that s/he should apply to Social Security, to see if s/he has a pension there also. It would likely be small and certainly subject to WEP.