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UK state pension and USA social security

UK state pension and USA social security

Old Nov 11th 2020, 1:20 pm
  #1681  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Well I do not type well on my phone, I guess where I am coming from is that you would need to know all your contributions over decades, to offset what the value of those contributions are now in a scheme where that data is unlikely to be recorded/available.
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Old Nov 12th 2020, 11:37 am
  #1682  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by durham_lad View Post
They pay me on a 1099R as well. The company I joined was a Joint Venture (JV) company owned jointly by 2 large chemical companies and the JV is a legal entity LLC in its own right that owns no assets and makes no profit as the profits generated go to the joint owners. I worked for one of the owners and as an enticement for me to join the JV, where I had been on secondment for 3 years, they offered to sponsor my green card application plus count my date of service with them as the same date of my joining the parent company. This meant that on joining I already had 9 years towards my vacation allowance plus 9 years counted towards their pension plan. When I retired they calculated my pension as if I had been on their payroll for 9 years longer than I had, but for legal reasons they couldn't expect their pension plan to simply fork out more money so they make up the difference by paying me directly, and that has to be reported on a W2. It is a sweet deal as their early retirement rules used to use the "80 points" calculation where once your age plus years of service equals 80, and you are at least aged 55, then you are able to retire on a reduced pension, so my 80 points came up at age 55 instead of 58.

Consequently I get my regular, qualified, pension paid through the pension plan and reported on a 1099R plus a much smaller unqualified pension paid through their payroll system and reported on a W2.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I never cease to be amazed by how complicated this can all be.
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Old Nov 12th 2020, 12:38 pm
  #1683  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Anne Elliot View Post
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I never cease to be amazed by how complicated this can all be.
To add to the complexity, this company is a Louisiana company and all W2 reported income is subject to Louisiana State income tax no matter where you reside and the mandatory withholding each year is about double what I actual should be paying so I have to file a Louisiana income tax return every year to get back about $300 of overpaid tax.

Each year I have to file an HMRC self assessment for myself and one for my wife, a joint IRS tax return, a joint Louisiana income tax return plus file an FBAR for both myself and my wife.
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 5:52 pm
  #1684  
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Question Re: UK state pension and USA social security

SUMMARY:
My husband and I are both 70.
We have been collecting US SS since turning 65.
We are now 70 and have applied for UK state pension. (Due to his birthday, he still falls under the old rules in which a wife is entitled to receive a pension based entirely on his pension).
Due to the delays in mail these days, we are still waiting to receive detailed forms to tell us exactly what we are both receiving, although some amount of money is already in our bank account. So we're waiting to contact US SS about that, since we don't know what to tell them yet.

1. A few years ago, we discussed the fact that we would be eventually applying for UK State Pension with our US SS lady and she explained that mine would not be taxed, as "it is not based on earned income". (I am a US citizen who has never worked in the UK). She said that my husband's State Pension would be subject to WEP., but we didn't have any details at that point.

2. Since then I've learned that:
A. My husband worked in the UK and paid Class 1 payments into the State Pension Plan until May of 1988. If I understand correctly, these payments were untaxed and based on earned income?

B. From June 1988 until 2015/2016, he paid Class 3 VOLUNTARY payments into the UK State Pension Plan.
----At this point he was living and working in the USA and paying US Social Security payments based on his earned income here in the USA.
----His UK voluntary payments were NOT based on earned income during those years, and were paid out of PRE-taxed savings from a UK checking account.
----In 2015/16 the UK told him he had reached the full 30 year qualification goal.

3. Although he's worked and paid US SS for 34 years, only about 6 of them were at maximum payment while working for a corporation.
In 1994, he became self-employed and from that point on deductible business expenses reduced the amount of income he declared in taxes, and therefore also reduced his self-employment payments for US SS.
For this reason, he does not qualify for the WEP exclusion.

QUESTION:
---As mentioned before, the UK State pension that I am qualified for, according to his birthdate, is not taxable because it is not based on earned income from the UK.
---By that logic, shouldn't my husband also be able to have some sort of consideration given for the fact that from 1988 until 2015/16 his payments were not based on earned income?
---And if so, how do we make this clear, and where what would be the best way to point it out? I'm concerned that if we just talk to the local office we'll get a rubber stamp bureaucrat who doesn't want to deal with it.

ALSO: On other threads, people have mentioned a phone number in Baltimore as a US SS office for people from overseas. I'm not sure if that would be useful to speak to the workers there, and no one ever seems to answer the line. We don't live far from Baltimore and I'm trying to figure out if there is any reason to drive to the office in person?

Thanks

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Mar 6th 2021 at 6:51 pm. Reason: Delete huge space
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 6:03 pm
  #1685  
 
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Nelbelmom View Post

QUESTION:
---As mentioned before, the UK State pension that I am qualified for, according to his birthdate, is not taxable because it is not based on earned income from the UK.
---By that logic, shouldn't my husband also be able to have some sort of consideration given for the fact that from 1988 until 2015/16 his payments were not based on earned income?
---And if so, how do we make this clear, and where what would be the best way to point it out? I'm concerned that if we just talk to the local office we'll get a rubber stamp bureaucrat who doesn't want to deal with it.

ALSO: On other threads, people have mentioned a phone number in Baltimore as a US SS office for people from overseas. I'm not sure if that would be useful to speak to the workers there, and no one ever seems to answer the line. We don't live far from Baltimore and I'm trying to figure out if there is any reason to drive to the office in person?

Thanks!
If your husband made voluntary payments towards his UK State pension, the amount of the UK pension derived from those payments is not subject to WEP. It is for him to get a figure from the UK pension service to confirm that amount, and tell SS. I found the normal phone number for SS to be quite knowledgeable about WEP, and didn't need to call the Baltimore office at all.
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 6:16 pm
  #1686  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

We are facing a similar situation. I started by UK state pension last month and my wife will start hers in November. Our UK NI contributions clearly state which years were from wages and which were from voluntary contributions. My wife also has full years recorded for the 7 years she was home looking after preschool children. WEP should only be applied against the UK wage earning contributions.
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 6:36 pm
  #1687  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
If your husband made voluntary payments towards his UK State pension, the amount of the UK pension derived from those payments is not subject to WEP. It is for him to get a figure from the UK pension service to confirm that amount, and tell SS. I found the normal phone number for SS to be quite knowledgeable about WEP, and didn't need to call the Baltimore office at all.
Originally Posted by durham_lad View Post
We are facing a similar situation. I started by UK state pension last month and my wife will start hers in November. Our UK NI contributions clearly state which years were from wages and which were from voluntary contributions. My wife also has full years recorded for the 7 years she was home looking after preschool children. WEP should only be applied against the UK wage earning contributions.
I only write to add my experience, the WEP people are very slow to respond. We wrote back and forth over the course of three years, they took eighteen months to reply to my last submission, where I sent full details of my British State Pension, and the amount of class 2 voluntary payments etc. The upshot was I needed to send them a check for about $3,500, overpayment for the last two or three years, and my SS is reduced by a modest and acceptable amount, going forward, which I’m assuming is correct. I’m happy and I believe they are content.
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 6:58 pm
  #1688  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Thanks Robin. Good to hear an account of an actual experience
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

THANK YOU that is great to hear!
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 7:24 pm
  #1690  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Thanks!
We've tried calling abroad to ask for the specifics about his voluntary payments and they told us we'd need to wait to receive information in the mail.
And of course Covid and the situation with the postal service changes here have slowed everything down to a crawl.
Can't wait to actually receive something. They won't even give me my official Pension number over the phone; I have to wait until papers arrive in the mail.
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 7:26 pm
  #1691  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Nelbelmom View Post
Thanks!
We've tried calling abroad to ask for the specifics about his voluntary payments and they told us we'd need to wait to receive information in the mail.
And of course Covid and the situation with the postal service changes here have slowed everything down to a crawl.
Can't wait to actually receive something. They won't even give me my official Pension number over the phone; I have to wait until papers arrive in the mail.
while living in the USA my wife and I signed up and created accounts on the HMRC.gov website which provides all this info online.
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 7:27 pm
  #1692  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

I guess patience is going to be a definite virtue, in dealing with both the UK end and the US end.
I appreciate the fact that you've given me more specific details of what your end result has been. Much appreciated!
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Old Mar 6th 2021, 7:30 pm
  #1693  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Well that's news that nobody has mentioned before! Since I don't even have my official reference number yet, I am guessing that I'll need to wait at my end, but I am happy to hear we can do this for his information!!!
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