UK pension question
#16
Re: UK pension question
I am not sure where the "20" came from, (your post looked good, and I am sure everything else was OK, but I can see where/ if Janet KF told us how many years she had worked in the UK), but the key number to aim for is "35" - the number of years of contributions you need for a full UK state pension (it can be increased further by deferring starting to draw it). So if you retired with x years of contributions, where X<35, then you will receive x/35 of the "full" state pension.
#17
Re: UK pension question
One further point for the OP, you need 21 additional years to get to the new state pension maximum not the 20 I mentioned earlier. I forgot about the difference between pre and post 2016 years. The calculations are a little more nuanced than what follows, but this is a simple explanation that is generally correct.
Each Pre 2016 year will add £4.73 to your forecast, calculated as the old state pension maximum of £141.85/30. Post 2016 calculations will add £5.29 calculated as the new state pension maximum of £185/35. All figures for 2022, they are increased every year. As Pulaski mentioned you need 35 years of contributions to attain the full new pension with two important caveats. (1) you can only count a maximum of 30 pre 2016 years towards the 35 year total, therefore once you reach 30 pre 2016 years, any further years are a waste of money and (2) if you were ever contracted out whether voluntarily or because your company pension scheme was contracted out then you may need more than the 35 year total because those contracted out years (all were pre 2016) would reduce the pre 2016 value to something less than the £4.73 that non contracted out years get. Caveat (2) is already baked into your current forecast, you have to trust them on that one.
A basic rule of thumb is to get your state pension forecast, and subtract that from the current maximum, that is your shortfall. Divide that by the current value of post 2016 contributions (currently £5.29 a week) round that up, and that is the number of additional years you need to get to the maximum state pension. If you can do that before your reach your state pension age then that is easiest the way to go. If you do not have enough years until you reach state pension age, then backfill the prior 6 years which will now always count as post 2016 years. If you still cannot get to the maximum new pension amount then backfill the number of years required between 2006 and 2016, using the lower value of £4.73 for each pre 2016 contribution.
In the OPs case your pension shortfall is £102. That would require 19.2 post 2016 years, so 20 full years to get to the maximum. Given your age at 60, you cannot achieve that. If you can contribute another 6 future years and backfill the prior 6 years (which anyone can do) then you will increase your pension by 12*£5.29, or £63.48 to a total of £146.48, leaving you with a short fall of £38.52. Now, your only option is to backfill pre 2016 years (only available to those meeting a certain age criteria, and only for the 10 years 2006-2016) at the reduced value of £4.73, which means that you need 8.14 years or 9 full years. That makes a total 21 additional years if you want to max your pension. Remember that any pre 2016 years that exceed 30 will add no value, so make sure you do not add any years that take you beyond 30 pre 2016 years. The option to backfill 2006-2016 (if you qualify) ends in April 2023, so anyone in this position should get on it sooner than later. Also, remember that you need at least 35 years contributions to attain the full state pension (up to 30 pre 2016 years plus all post 2016 years). If you were ever contracted out, the chances are that your calculations will take you beyond the 35 year mark so don’t fall into the trap of assuming that 35 years is sufficient.
The calculations can be mind blowing, but are actually reasonably straight forward once you get your head around some basic facts, and the return on investment is the best there is and then some, so well worth the time spent on it.
EDIT: if you were a high earner and not contracted out then the above calculations may get you to the pension maximum prior to reaching 35 years, that is because some of your pre 2016 years will have a value in excess of the standard £4.73 value, and that is already baked into your forecast. If that is the case you will have to add years to get to 35, otherwise your pension will be reduced by 1/35th of the maximum for each year you are short of 35 years.
Each Pre 2016 year will add £4.73 to your forecast, calculated as the old state pension maximum of £141.85/30. Post 2016 calculations will add £5.29 calculated as the new state pension maximum of £185/35. All figures for 2022, they are increased every year. As Pulaski mentioned you need 35 years of contributions to attain the full new pension with two important caveats. (1) you can only count a maximum of 30 pre 2016 years towards the 35 year total, therefore once you reach 30 pre 2016 years, any further years are a waste of money and (2) if you were ever contracted out whether voluntarily or because your company pension scheme was contracted out then you may need more than the 35 year total because those contracted out years (all were pre 2016) would reduce the pre 2016 value to something less than the £4.73 that non contracted out years get. Caveat (2) is already baked into your current forecast, you have to trust them on that one.
A basic rule of thumb is to get your state pension forecast, and subtract that from the current maximum, that is your shortfall. Divide that by the current value of post 2016 contributions (currently £5.29 a week) round that up, and that is the number of additional years you need to get to the maximum state pension. If you can do that before your reach your state pension age then that is easiest the way to go. If you do not have enough years until you reach state pension age, then backfill the prior 6 years which will now always count as post 2016 years. If you still cannot get to the maximum new pension amount then backfill the number of years required between 2006 and 2016, using the lower value of £4.73 for each pre 2016 contribution.
In the OPs case your pension shortfall is £102. That would require 19.2 post 2016 years, so 20 full years to get to the maximum. Given your age at 60, you cannot achieve that. If you can contribute another 6 future years and backfill the prior 6 years (which anyone can do) then you will increase your pension by 12*£5.29, or £63.48 to a total of £146.48, leaving you with a short fall of £38.52. Now, your only option is to backfill pre 2016 years (only available to those meeting a certain age criteria, and only for the 10 years 2006-2016) at the reduced value of £4.73, which means that you need 8.14 years or 9 full years. That makes a total 21 additional years if you want to max your pension. Remember that any pre 2016 years that exceed 30 will add no value, so make sure you do not add any years that take you beyond 30 pre 2016 years. The option to backfill 2006-2016 (if you qualify) ends in April 2023, so anyone in this position should get on it sooner than later. Also, remember that you need at least 35 years contributions to attain the full state pension (up to 30 pre 2016 years plus all post 2016 years). If you were ever contracted out, the chances are that your calculations will take you beyond the 35 year mark so don’t fall into the trap of assuming that 35 years is sufficient.
The calculations can be mind blowing, but are actually reasonably straight forward once you get your head around some basic facts, and the return on investment is the best there is and then some, so well worth the time spent on it.
EDIT: if you were a high earner and not contracted out then the above calculations may get you to the pension maximum prior to reaching 35 years, that is because some of your pre 2016 years will have a value in excess of the standard £4.73 value, and that is already baked into your forecast. If that is the case you will have to add years to get to 35, otherwise your pension will be reduced by 1/35th of the maximum for each year you are short of 35 years.
Last edited by Glasgow Girl; May 19th 2022 at 3:28 am. Reason: Added high earner comment
#18
Just Joined
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 8
Re: UK pension question
Thank you, Glasgow Girl and Pulaski, for your very detailed advice. What I have to do now is obtain an up-to-date forecast and access to a complete list of my NI contributions and gap years. This, I am currently pursuing by email. I did create a Government Gateway account some years ago, but they appear to have changed the login system and I can no longer enter the system; it cannot validate my identity. So I must wait for a civil servant to help me with my case. I will post again if I have questions arising from this and almost certainly will. I hope they will be reasonably quick about this as I think I have only until the end of the current UK tax year to purchase voluntary contributions for years 2006-2016.
#19
DE-UK-NZ-IE-US... the TYP
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,855
Re: UK pension question
Thank you, Glasgow Girl and Pulaski, for your very detailed advice. What I have to do now is obtain an up-to-date forecast and access to a complete list of my NI contributions and gap years. This, I am currently pursuing by email. I did create a Government Gateway account some years ago, but they appear to have changed the login system and I can no longer enter the system; it cannot validate my identity. So I must wait for a civil servant to help me with my case. I will post again if I have questions arising from this and almost certainly will. I hope they will be reasonably quick about this as I think I have only until the end of the current UK tax year to purchase voluntary contributions for years 2006-2016.
the payment to my account, which they say is meant to be automated) this then lets you see the impact on the new forecast pension. If you have not tried already maybe try to setup a new login from scratch.
https://www.access.service.gov.uk/login/signin/creds
#20
Just Joined
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 8
Re: UK pension question
Updating , in complete despair.
Based on the advice discussed here earlier this year, I have pursued getting the right info from DWP and HMRC. Got good help from DWP about identifying the gaps in my record and I submitted a request to HMRC International Caseworkers. That was sent July 4 and was received and logged into their system. It requested consideration of NI contributions I can backfill for previous years. The last lady I spoke to at HMRC on the September 26th told me that the International Caseworkers were, at that time, reviewing cases received on July 14, so my case was getting close. She could see the info I had sent and she said that she thought HMRC had all the info it needed, but to call back in 4 weeks if I hadn't heard anything. This I did today.
I spoke to "officer 1" who told me that my information did not correspond to that on file. After a few minutes, the call dropped. Officer 2, same result - he was more belligerent, and I got rapidly more upset because of his complete lack of helpful suggestions. He cannot help me because I have failed the security checks. I can either hang up and check my details and call in again (?) or write to HRMC - which I did in July and have proof that the correspondence was received. The conversation got no further other than me making a complaint and requesting a callback from a superior. Now, I don't really know what to do for the best.
I don't know if you have any contact at HMRC who might have a suggestion. I am currently corresponding by messenger with their Facebook page - anything is worth a try. It is deeply upsetting - I think now I may not be able to make those NI contributions in time. They gave me zero help today and I am completely confused why and how this happened.
Based on the advice discussed here earlier this year, I have pursued getting the right info from DWP and HMRC. Got good help from DWP about identifying the gaps in my record and I submitted a request to HMRC International Caseworkers. That was sent July 4 and was received and logged into their system. It requested consideration of NI contributions I can backfill for previous years. The last lady I spoke to at HMRC on the September 26th told me that the International Caseworkers were, at that time, reviewing cases received on July 14, so my case was getting close. She could see the info I had sent and she said that she thought HMRC had all the info it needed, but to call back in 4 weeks if I hadn't heard anything. This I did today.
I spoke to "officer 1" who told me that my information did not correspond to that on file. After a few minutes, the call dropped. Officer 2, same result - he was more belligerent, and I got rapidly more upset because of his complete lack of helpful suggestions. He cannot help me because I have failed the security checks. I can either hang up and check my details and call in again (?) or write to HRMC - which I did in July and have proof that the correspondence was received. The conversation got no further other than me making a complaint and requesting a callback from a superior. Now, I don't really know what to do for the best.
I don't know if you have any contact at HMRC who might have a suggestion. I am currently corresponding by messenger with their Facebook page - anything is worth a try. It is deeply upsetting - I think now I may not be able to make those NI contributions in time. They gave me zero help today and I am completely confused why and how this happened.