UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
#16
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
As far as the IRS is concerned, any amount of a gift to the recipient is not taxable.
The issue is whether the UK parents are reporting that income to the UK government and paying taxes on it. Also there may be gift taxes in the UK that the parents are supposed to pay. However neither of those are the problem of the recipient of the gift but the parents problem.
Usually countries limit the amount of the gifts by donors otherwise they could just give away their property to their children before they die and avoid estate taxes. Without such laws, this could be a never ending cycle of avoiding estate taxes. This is not called estate planning but instead usually referred to as tax fraud or tax evasion.
In the US, I can give $13,000 per year to any number of people without paying gift taxes and that is referred to tax avoidance and is totally legal but if I gave my son $26,000 during the year and not reported $13,000 of that as gift taxable, that is tax evasion.
The issue is whether the UK parents are reporting that income to the UK government and paying taxes on it. Also there may be gift taxes in the UK that the parents are supposed to pay. However neither of those are the problem of the recipient of the gift but the parents problem.
Usually countries limit the amount of the gifts by donors otherwise they could just give away their property to their children before they die and avoid estate taxes. Without such laws, this could be a never ending cycle of avoiding estate taxes. This is not called estate planning but instead usually referred to as tax fraud or tax evasion.
In the US, I can give $13,000 per year to any number of people without paying gift taxes and that is referred to tax avoidance and is totally legal but if I gave my son $26,000 during the year and not reported $13,000 of that as gift taxable, that is tax evasion.
Last edited by Michael; Oct 7th 2013 at 9:46 pm.
#17
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
My grandfather received a salary from a business he owned. The business paid tax on its income, and then wrote him a check, and he and my grandmother jointly paid tax on that income. When my grandfather died, he left money to my mother. My mother, who was ill at that point with cancer but working from home, paid tax on that inheritance as well as on her normal job income. When she died a few years later, a portion of the remaining inheritance money came to me, and I paid tax on that income. I took a large amount of it and invested in silver metal. By the time I sold the silver, I had realized a gain and needed to pay tax on that income. Dizzy yet?
From the point of view of the IRS, it doesn't matter where the money came from, just that it is income and you owe tax on your income.
From the point of view of the IRS, it doesn't matter where the money came from, just that it is income and you owe tax on your income.
#18
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
I can't remember the UK limit for gifts, but that is the parents problem, not the recipients. Plus, if the givers death occurs within (?)7 years of the gift, I believe HMRC will want the gift included in the estate for tax purposes.
Where is Nun when you need him?
Where is Nun when you need him?
#21
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
I'd have thought you want the property put into trust, with you and your wife named as the beneficiaries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ly-riches.html might help...
As the parents are in the UK, and they are the ones who own the property, it is subject to UK inheritance tax until 7 years after they've gifted it to you. So I'd go for a British solicitor to set it up.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ly-riches.html might help...
As the parents are in the UK, and they are the ones who own the property, it is subject to UK inheritance tax until 7 years after they've gifted it to you. So I'd go for a British solicitor to set it up.
#22
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
My point was that the same money can be taxed any amount of times depending on how it changes hands, and that it is income unless it isn't, and the whole thing is just nuts and you need help to untangle it. I was fortunate in my accountant but in the end you just have to be informed.
#23
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
Whether anything will come of it is some what besides the point, an audit is a PIA.
#24
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
Except that a gift is absolutely not income. And the federal government does not tax receipt of gifts. A few states do, but unless one is living in these states, the regular gifts mentioned have no U.S. tax impact.
#25
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
Although it would be a good idea to keep some documentation of the source of the money - for example, bank documentation showing which account the funds came from, just in case.
#26
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
My wife's (UK citizen in US as permanent resident) UK parents are trying to offload some of their assets to their daughters. They have a flat in England that they rent out. Right now, they send us the rental income in money transfers, that we do not report as income.
They would like to come to a more permanent solution, but it seems that bequeathing it to a trust or giving it to us outright or selling it, subjects us to a number of tax issues on the US side that does not make it worth the hassle.
They would like to come to a more permanent solution, but it seems that bequeathing it to a trust or giving it to us outright or selling it, subjects us to a number of tax issues on the US side that does not make it worth the hassle.
A few states tax receipts of gifts and inheritances, so check to see if you're not in one of these. It would be an additional complication if so.
On the U.K. side, there is probably no Inheritance Tax impact either, since amounts under GBP3,000 can be given free of tax, and there is also an exemption for regular small gifts given out of income.
If the parents want to actually give your wife the property, they have to consider both Inheritance Tax, and U.K. capital gains tax, and you also need to consider U.S. capital gains tax. This is one of the cases where you really would need to do some cross-border tax planning with a competent professional since there are a number of inter-related issues.
- If your wife inherits the property, it's part of the estate for Inheritance Tax (not good) but the U.K. gives an exemption on capital gains (good). Also, if you inherit an asset in the U.S. your base cost for future capital gains is the fair market value at the time.
- On the other hand, if your wife receives a gift of a property from her parents they have to live seven years to avoid an exposure to Inheritance Tax. However, they may have to pay U.K. capital gains tax based on an assumed selling price equal to the fair market value at the time. At the same time, (unless you can find a tax treaty exemption), your wife's U.S. base cost for capital gains will normally be the donor's original cost. As a result, it's normally not tax efficient to give an appreciated asset to a U.S. person. It is usually better to sell the asset and give the cash.
- You should avoid trusts, etc, unless you really understand both U.K. and U.S. tax consequences. These can involve a lot of tax issues/reporting and can be difficult to unravel once set up.
If your parents want to proceed with the gift, it's important to run all different scenarios from a U.K./U.S. tax perspective. And while usually, people don't need a dual qualified tax professional, a situation like this is one of the exceptions.
Also check to ensure your foreign bank account balances are below the thresholds for FBAR/FATCA (form 8938) - if they are above, you need to file these forms as applicable.
#27
Re: UK parents gifiting us a flat in England
If the parents want to actually give your wife the property, they have to consider both Inheritance Tax, and U.K. capital gains tax, and you also need to consider U.S. capital gains tax. This is one of the cases where you really would need to do some cross-border tax planning with a competent professional since there are a number of inter-related issues.
- If your wife inherits the property, it's part of the estate for Inheritance Tax (not good) but the U.K. gives an exemption on capital gains (good). Also, if you inherit an asset in the U.S. your base cost for future capital gains is the fair market value at the time.
- On the other hand, if your wife receives a gift of a property from her parents they have to live seven years to avoid an exposure to Inheritance Tax. However, they may have to pay U.K. capital gains tax based on an assumed selling price equal to the fair market value at the time. At the same time, (unless you can find a tax treaty exemption), your wife's U.S. base cost for capital gains will normally be the donor's original cost. As a result, it's normally not tax efficient to give an appreciated asset to a U.S. person. It is usually better to sell the asset and give the cash.
- If your wife inherits the property, it's part of the estate for Inheritance Tax (not good) but the U.K. gives an exemption on capital gains (good). Also, if you inherit an asset in the U.S. your base cost for future capital gains is the fair market value at the time.
- On the other hand, if your wife receives a gift of a property from her parents they have to live seven years to avoid an exposure to Inheritance Tax. However, they may have to pay U.K. capital gains tax based on an assumed selling price equal to the fair market value at the time. At the same time, (unless you can find a tax treaty exemption), your wife's U.S. base cost for capital gains will normally be the donor's original cost. As a result, it's normally not tax efficient to give an appreciated asset to a U.S. person. It is usually better to sell the asset and give the cash.
http://taxes.about.com/od/capitalgai...t_property.htm