Tax returns and form 8938
Jan 30th 2017, 3:09 am
#1
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Tax returns and form 8938
Woah! Enough form filling already! Stumped on another one - filing my first US tax return and flummoxed by form 8938 (but I won't let it beat me)!
So I have UK bank accounts above the £50000 - do I need to record any of the interest or transfers to my US bank account from those accounts? Do I also need to report my UK teeny pension? Failing answers to those, any really useful resources out there for translating IRS forms into English? I'm also gathering I need to file an FBAR which is kinda freaking me out as perhaps I should have filed it last year too - any other sneaky forms I have to complete which I didn't know even existed?!
You guys are awesome, and thank you for all and any help!
So I have UK bank accounts above the £50000 - do I need to record any of the interest or transfers to my US bank account from those accounts? Do I also need to report my UK teeny pension? Failing answers to those, any really useful resources out there for translating IRS forms into English? I'm also gathering I need to file an FBAR which is kinda freaking me out as perhaps I should have filed it last year too - any other sneaky forms I have to complete which I didn't know even existed?!
You guys are awesome, and thank you for all and any help!
Jan 30th 2017, 7:51 am
#2
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Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,543
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
From the circumstances you describe, it sounds like you do need to file the FBAR. As you probably know, it's not an IRS form and it's completely separate from your tax filing. You have to do it online, it is easy to find the website. Deadline is now the same as the tax deadline.
8938 is tedious but pretty simple.
In terms of any foreign interest, you need to report that on your 1040 and 1040 schedule B as income - in the same place that you record US savings bank interest, for instance. But no, the forms require you to record the highest balance in the year for each account, but you don't need to specify transfers in and out etc.
The stupidity of 8938 and FBAR is that there's a big overlap in what you are reporting on the two forms. The (very low tech) way I do it is I write up all the vital stats of my foreign accounts on a sheet of paper and, once converted to US dollars, use those figures to populate the 1040 schedule B, 8938 and FBAR. That is, highest balance during the year and interest earned if any.
Do you have to report your pension? I have a small final salary pension in England from an employer I left in 1991. I started taking the pension a year ago. I simply reported it in terms of name and address of the pension provider with an account value of $0 in the days before I took pension income.
(I don't have my tax filing records in front of me now, which is why some of the above is a bit vague..)
8938 is tedious but pretty simple.
In terms of any foreign interest, you need to report that on your 1040 and 1040 schedule B as income - in the same place that you record US savings bank interest, for instance. But no, the forms require you to record the highest balance in the year for each account, but you don't need to specify transfers in and out etc.
The stupidity of 8938 and FBAR is that there's a big overlap in what you are reporting on the two forms. The (very low tech) way I do it is I write up all the vital stats of my foreign accounts on a sheet of paper and, once converted to US dollars, use those figures to populate the 1040 schedule B, 8938 and FBAR. That is, highest balance during the year and interest earned if any.
Do you have to report your pension? I have a small final salary pension in England from an employer I left in 1991. I started taking the pension a year ago. I simply reported it in terms of name and address of the pension provider with an account value of $0 in the days before I took pension income.
(I don't have my tax filing records in front of me now, which is why some of the above is a bit vague..)
Jan 30th 2017, 8:35 am
#3
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 65
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
any really useful resources out there for translating IRS forms into English? I'm also gathering I need to file an FBAR which is kinda freaking me out as perhaps I should have filed it last year too - any other sneaky forms I have to complete which I didn't know even existed?!
Jan 30th 2017, 11:23 am
#4
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Posts: 2,134
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
Woah! Enough form filling already! Stumped on another one - filing my first US tax return and flummoxed by form 8938 (but I won't let it beat me)!
So I have UK bank accounts above the £50000 - do I need to record any of the interest or transfers to my US bank account from those accounts? Do I also need to report my UK teeny pension? Failing answers to those, any really useful resources out there for translating IRS forms into English? I'm also gathering I need to file an FBAR which is kinda freaking me out as perhaps I should have filed it last year too - any other sneaky forms I have to complete which I didn't know even existed?!
You guys are awesome, and thank you for all and any help!
So I have UK bank accounts above the £50000 - do I need to record any of the interest or transfers to my US bank account from those accounts? Do I also need to report my UK teeny pension? Failing answers to those, any really useful resources out there for translating IRS forms into English? I'm also gathering I need to file an FBAR which is kinda freaking me out as perhaps I should have filed it last year too - any other sneaky forms I have to complete which I didn't know even existed?!
You guys are awesome, and thank you for all and any help!
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/compa...r-requirements
Jan 30th 2017, 11:46 am
#5
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Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,543
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
This may help:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/compa...r-requirements
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/compa...r-requirements
Jan 30th 2017, 12:09 pm
#6
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,754
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
From the circumstances you describe, it sounds like you do need to file the FBAR. As you probably know, it's not an IRS form and it's completely separate from your tax filing. You have to do it online, it is easy to find the website. Deadline is now the same as the tax deadline.
8938 is tedious but pretty simple.
In terms of any foreign interest, you need to report that on your 1040 and 1040 schedule B as income - in the same place that you record US savings bank interest, for instance. But no, the forms require you to record the highest balance in the year for each account, but you don't need to specify transfers in and out etc.
The stupidity of 8938 and FBAR is that there's a big overlap in what you are reporting on the two forms. The (very low tech) way I do it is I write up all the vital stats of my foreign accounts on a sheet of paper and, once converted to US dollars, use those figures to populate the 1040 schedule B, 8938 and FBAR. That is, highest balance during the year and interest earned if any.
Do you have to report your pension? I have a small final salary pension in England from an employer I left in 1991. I started taking the pension a year ago. I simply reported it in terms of name and address of the pension provider with an account value of $0 in the days before I took pension income.
(I don't have my tax filing records in front of me now, which is why some of the above is a bit vague..)
8938 is tedious but pretty simple.
In terms of any foreign interest, you need to report that on your 1040 and 1040 schedule B as income - in the same place that you record US savings bank interest, for instance. But no, the forms require you to record the highest balance in the year for each account, but you don't need to specify transfers in and out etc.
The stupidity of 8938 and FBAR is that there's a big overlap in what you are reporting on the two forms. The (very low tech) way I do it is I write up all the vital stats of my foreign accounts on a sheet of paper and, once converted to US dollars, use those figures to populate the 1040 schedule B, 8938 and FBAR. That is, highest balance during the year and interest earned if any.
Do you have to report your pension? I have a small final salary pension in England from an employer I left in 1991. I started taking the pension a year ago. I simply reported it in terms of name and address of the pension provider with an account value of $0 in the days before I took pension income.
(I don't have my tax filing records in front of me now, which is why some of the above is a bit vague..)
Remember that you need to include the UK pension on the 1040 and make sure you have it's UK taxable status correct too......most UK pensions will be free of UK tax when paid to a US resident.
Jan 30th 2017, 1:41 pm
#8
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Re: Tax returns and form 8938
"(Please note: The due date for FBAR filings for foreign financial accounts maintained during calendar year 2016 is April 18, 2017, consistent with the Federal income tax due date.)"
"To implement the statute with minimal burden to the public and FinCEN, FinCEN will grant filers failing to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15 an automatic extension to October 15 each year. Accordingly, specific requests for this extension are not required." (emphasis mine)
https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default...t_12-16-16.pdf
FinCEN grants permanent automatic extensions for FBARs
It says nothing about this being for those abroad only, and appears to apply to all.
Jan 30th 2017, 1:46 pm
#9
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Re: Tax returns and form 8938
The way FinCEN instructed me:
FBAR, highest amount shown in any account (not necessarily the balance)
I have one overseas account of $22 they even want all the details!
8938, I have shown the amounts as valued on the last day of the year, much easier.
This process will probably be trashed by some but the instructions state that ‘valuing specified foreign financial assets can be made during the tax year OR on the last day of the financial year’
I have very recently filed an FBAR and 8938 for 2013! Due to cock-ups with my CPA, wait and see…..
Another rain forest of paperwork no doubt + another fine
FBAR, highest amount shown in any account (not necessarily the balance)
I have one overseas account of $22 they even want all the details!
8938, I have shown the amounts as valued on the last day of the year, much easier.
This process will probably be trashed by some but the instructions state that ‘valuing specified foreign financial assets can be made during the tax year OR on the last day of the financial year’
I have very recently filed an FBAR and 8938 for 2013! Due to cock-ups with my CPA, wait and see…..
Another rain forest of paperwork no doubt + another fine
Last edited by audio; Jan 30th 2017 at 1:57 pm. Reason: added text
Jan 30th 2017, 2:11 pm
#10
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Posts: 1,117
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
8938, I have shown the amounts as valued on the last day of the year, much easier.
This process will probably be trashed by some but the instructions state that ‘valuing specified foreign financial assets can be made during the tax year OR on the last day of the financial year’
This process will probably be trashed by some but the instructions state that ‘valuing specified foreign financial assets can be made during the tax year OR on the last day of the financial year’
"Reporting Maximum Value
You must report the maximum value during the tax year of each specified foreign financial asset reported on Form 8938."
page 7
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf
Jan 30th 2017, 3:38 pm
#11
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Posts: 32
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
Thank you - this really is amazingly helpful. One more question - I didn't file either of these in 2016 for 2015... I got married in Oct 15 on K1, and didn't start working until Feb 16 when my EAD/ conditional green card arrived. Am I in trouble? What should I do about last year?
Jan 30th 2017, 4:12 pm
#12
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Posts: 762
Re: Tax returns and form 8938
I'll bite. Where does it say what is quoted above? which counters the following:
"Reporting Maximum Value
You must report the maximum value during the tax year of each specified foreign financial asset reported on Form 8938."
page 7
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf
"Reporting Maximum Value
You must report the maximum value during the tax year of each specified foreign financial asset reported on Form 8938."
page 7
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf
Specified assets:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corpo...938#OverviewQ1
I note from your link this ‘ease’ has been deleted for 2016.
Trust the IRS to make life more difficult.
Jan 30th 2017, 6:06 pm
#13
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Re: Tax returns and form 8938
Do UK pension funds still count towards the 8938 funds?