Originally Posted by dlake02

That is just stunningly rude, and exactly the attitude that I hate. Sorry - this is EXACTLY what I'm complaining about - a selfish, short-term attitude to anyone else. And I hear European after European complain about it here - my German colleagues really don't understand it.



And again, that explains why everything here is so short-term. Again, try thinking about someone OTHER than yourself for a change. Think that OTHER people have a right to a holiday and may need to plan. Think that other people may have to save to travel, book ahead, have children at school that have fixed times for vacation, commitments to other people.

We have to book 6 months ahead as my in-laws also need to plan, my sister in law (a teacher) needs to plan, my brother (a GP in the NHS) needs to plan. They work on about 6-12 months deadlines, and I don't think it's unreasonable to plan ahead a little. I also have to think about sending my son to a good University, pension, savings.

Try picking up the phone an booking three return tickets on specific dates to fit in with your family's commitments SFO-LHR in July/August for 2 weeks. You simply HAVE to plan ahead. Especially if you also want to pop over to see family in France and friends in Germany at the same time. It gets to be very expensive unless you book 3-6 months ahead.

I'm not sure I care ! I'm not asking YOU to plan YOUR vacation 3 months - I'm asking you to consider the impact of you planning on other people that you work/interact with.

Why ? I have entered into a contract with my employer. In return for my knowledge and work, they give me things. They are entitled to my undivided attention within that contract, and I am entitled to aspects such as sick-leave, holiday, maternity/paternity, pension, access to health-care, etc. Maybe you just go to the supermarket and give them money and walk out empty-handed, but I prefer a two-way contract where both sides understand what is required.

If you think that by not having rights as a worker you will somehow be better treated, you are deluding yourself.....

Originally Posted by dlake02

I wish...!!! One 1-week holiday to Hawaii (Oahu), two long-weekends to Vegas and SF.

I get 25 days leave. In the UK we would plan on 2 weeks for main summer holiday, a week at Easter or Spring Half-Term and then a week for October half-term. As my entitlement here is 4 days less than the UK, but I get 3 extra public holidays, to me there is virtually no difference which is why I found the attitudes to holidays, time-off, etc so bizarre. But what this forum has taught me is that what I assumed to be normal patterns of leave are not. I have co-workers based in France, Germany and The Netherlands - they all get (and ALWAYS take) far more leave than I did in the UK especially as the UK is about the lowest in Europe.

The flip side to this is that I do travel with my job quite a bit - many weekends away from home (about 25-30% of the year is travel that involves travel on a Saturday/Sunday) - so quite honestly, I feel I earn every second of family time and no-one else has the right to interrupt that !

We have a total of about 4 weeks away each year (this year UK, Hawaii and one other TBD), and then the odd long-weekend within about a 2-hour max journey. That leaves Christmas to deal with - this year given the prices of flights everywhere already, we've decided not to travel and just spend it here. Frankly, Christmas has never been a big occasion with us, so other than a couple of days off, it really doesn't count for much.

Originally Posted by dlake02

But it has been explained (thank you) how most American workers don't really take time off even if they have an allowance.

Originally Posted by dlake02

I think you mis-understand the point of my initial post.

I'M perfectly happy that having taken a temporary post here, we are getting to see the place, I get to keep my work/life balance in check and we can afford to do all that we want to do. I don't really have any difference in my life from living in the UK - 60+ hour work-week, a much shorter commute, what I would classify as an average leave allowance, a good salary and benefits package. Again, all about the same as in the EU.

But.... when I mention having TWO main holidays a year, one for 2 weeks, one for 1 week, and then 3 or 4 short breaks during the year and that I like to plan those out in advance a little so that I can afford to do that, the way in which that is received by my American work cousins is vastly different to the way that it's received by my European work cousins...... Some here have NEVER taken ANY leave ! That would be unheard of in our UK office.

But it has been explained (thank you) how most American workers don't really take time off even if they have an allowance.And there I was thinking slavery had been abolished....

Originally Posted by dlake02

Good for you !!! That is EXACTLY how everyone I've ever worked with has behaved, and I've only ever worked in private business in Europe. I work in the same private company here as I last did in the UK. It is like chalk-and-cheese, and frankly, I don't recognise the hard-working, hard-playing UK culture with what I see here which appears to be far more about "being seen" to be busy by the right people and frankly very little fun.

Over here, the attitudes amongst my co-workers are very, very different. I'm used to seeing the end-of-year email from HR reminding people to "loose it or use it" - in other words, you have a leave entitlement for a very good reason, and you should take it. We've had extensions and flexibility in leave so that people can carry over beyond the usual three months.

As I say, when I told two of my very long-serving US co-workers when I'd be taking my 2 week holiday this year, I think I had to write it down in words they could understand as it was obviously beyond their comprehension. Their loss.

Originally Posted by dlake02

I think you mis-understand the point of my initial post.

I'M perfectly happy that having taken a temporary post here, we are getting to see the place, I get to keep my work/life balance in check and we can afford to do all that we want to do. I don't really have any difference in my life from living in the UK - 60+ hour work-week, a much shorter commute, what I would classify as an average leave allowance, a good salary and benefits package. Again, all about the same as in the EU.

But.... when I mention having TWO main holidays a year, one for 2 weeks, one for 1 week, and then 3 or 4 short breaks during the year and that I like to plan those out in advance a little so that I can afford to do that, the way in which that is received by my American work cousins is vastly different to the way that it's received by my European work cousins...... Some here have NEVER taken ANY leave ! That would be unheard of in our UK office.

But it has been explained (thank you) how most American workers don't really take time off even if they have an allowance.

And there I was thinking slavery had been abolished....

Originally Posted by Jsmth321

I never took time off when I had paid vacation time for one reason, in the state I worked in, if vacation was not used it had to be paid out, so at the end of every year I would get 3 weeks of additional pay, the money was more valuable to me then the time off.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321

I never took time off when I had paid vacation time for one reason, in the state I worked in, if vacation was not used it had to be paid out, so at the end of every year I would get 3 weeks of additional pay, the money was more valuable to me then the time off.