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Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Stephen Fry on American Prisons

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Old Oct 25th 2012, 4:09 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by JRG67
In Japan the yakuza walk about freely, the people live in cramped spaces, the police are not in anyway intimidating, one can drink a can of beer while walking down the street, and yet it is a much safer place (apart from earthquakes and potential nuclear meltdowns) than America. I find this puzzling.
To my knowledge there are only two places in the US where you are unlikely to get a ticket for an open container of alcohol. New Orleans and Key West. I think it's still strictly an offense they just turn a blind eye there.

Remember the US once had prohibition and one of the conditions for lifting it was the right of States to set fairly strict regulations. Some counties are still dry. Japan is a very different place culturally I would find it hard to do any sort of direct comparison.

Last edited by sir_eccles; Oct 25th 2012 at 4:40 pm.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 4:10 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by JRG67
In Japan the yakuza walk about freely, the people live in cramped spaces, the police are not in anyway intimidating, one can drink a can of beer while walking down the street, and yet it is a much safer place (apart from earthquakes and potential nuclear meltdowns) than America. I find this puzzling.
There are negative consequences to a culture that promotes the individual and freedom above other values. As there are negative consequences for cultures that historically promote society and respect for hierarchy.

Swings and roundabouts.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by JRG67
The police cars patrolling Central Park seemed intimidating, as did the cops' uniforms.
??? NYPD uniforms are pretty much as standard as a police uniform can be in a country with literally thousands of separate police departments. IMHO they're a lot less intimidating than the combat trousers and flak-jacket combos most British police forces have adopted.

However on the plus side it appears to be a safer place than it used to be.
Indeed, but all the developed world has seen significant drops in crime over the last couple of decades. Personally I think phasing out lead in petrol has been the biggest reason.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 5:29 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by rpjs
the combat trousers and flak-jacket combos most British police forces have adopted.
Have they? When did that happen?

Originally Posted by rpjs
Indeed, but all the developed world has seen significant drops in crime over the last couple of decades. Personally I think phasing out lead in petrol has been the biggest reason.
It has also been linked to the Roe v. Wade decision on abortion in the US.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 5:41 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
Have they? When did that happen?

I haven't noticed that.

It has also been linked to the Roe v. Wade decision on abortion in the US.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 5:42 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Having lived in Japan for such a long time all Western men seem intimidating!
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 5:48 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by kimilseung
There are negative consequences to a culture that promotes the individual and freedom above other values. As there are negative consequences for cultures that historically promote society and respect for hierarchy.

Swings and roundabouts.
Is any one truly free? Why is there more violence and yet a stronger police presence in the US?
Personally I don't understand the point of multiple life sentences for a criminal. I think after 20 of so years in prison, the outside must seem as horrific as the inside.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 7:20 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

This recent story seems relevant to the discussion:

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2012/...ne-mississippi
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 7:46 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
This recent story seems relevant to the discussion:

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2012/...ne-mississippi
I think that part of the problem is that parents and teachers are too scared to discipline children incase they get accused of abuse- hence the over-dependence on institutions such as prisons.

It is difficult to know where to draw the line. Does a student have a right to wear socks of his/her own chosing in defiance of school policy? When is it OK to disobey society's rules?
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 7:48 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by JRG67
I think that part of the problem is that parents and teachers are too scared to discipline children incase they get accused of abuse- hence the over-dependence on institutions such as prisons.

It is difficult to know where to draw the line. Does a student have a right to wear socks of his/her own chosing in defiance of school policy? When is it OK to disobey society's rules?
Strange that they have such a strong sock policy there. In our high school, students can more or less wear anything or nothing.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 7:51 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

An American friend of mine wore a coloured t-shirt under his white school uniform shirt to high school in Japan, and was sent home. His parents were called in by the head-master to discuss the problem!
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Old Oct 26th 2012, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by kimilseung
Almost certainly so, given that at least one million people in the nick are not violent.
So, let me get this straight, your contention is that there is zero connection between the (slightly) increased incarceration rate and the plummeting-to-all-time-low violent crime rate (and overall crime rate) in the US?

I will grant you that the "war on drugs" dramatically drives up incarceration rates and is highly debatable.
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Old Oct 26th 2012, 4:47 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by Hiro11
So, let me get this straight, your contention is that there is zero connection between the (slightly) increased incarceration rate and the plummeting-to-all-time-low violent crime rate (and overall crime rate) in the US?
I would want more than two crossed lines on a graph to draw a correlation.
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Old Oct 26th 2012, 4:56 pm
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Default Re: Stephen Fry on American Prisons

Originally Posted by kimilseung
I would want more than two crossed lines on a graph to draw a correlation.
Especially as other western countries have seen a steep decline in crime in the last decade without incarcerating people at the rate the US does. There are likely many factors at play here, and working out what really is having an impact is fiendishly difficult. For example, I just read an article in The Economist about a study that concludes it's because of better alarm and locking systems in cars. Car thefts have plummeted and as that type of theft is an "debut crime", it's cut down on other crimes that would have been committed.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Oct 26th 2012 at 4:59 pm.
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